Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave  (Read 10073 times)

pompebled

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 586
  • Location: Sneek, Netherlands
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2017, 04:44:35 PM »

Hi Dave,

In my 110 cm M.A.S. I'm using a single C4250-800Kv outrunner on 4S to drive the 5875 aluminium two blade prop ( 58 mm).
On two 4800mAh 4S Lipo's wired in parallel I get runtimes of over two hours, mostly walking pace with the occasional 100M sprint interval.

During the first test run on a warm windless day (no deck installed yet) it ran fine for over an hour, when the boat stopped; both motor (black housing) and ESC had become very hot in the blazing sun, causing the ESC to thermal.

Once home I installed watercooling, so both ESC and motormount would keep the temperature low enough to avoid overheating issues.

I used the pressureless system I have on my fast electrics, where the inlet is in the bottom, slanted forward (with a minute scoop) and the outlet is also in the bottom, slanted towards the rear, sanded flush with the hull. Once the cooling lines (ESC, then motor mount) are filled with water (after a small burst of throttle), the flow will keep going, even when you're crawling along, or go in reverse. The outlet creates suction, which helps the flow to keep going.

Downside to this system is that you don't see water coming out, so there's no way of knowing if the flow is going, but you can take my word on it that there is water circulating, as nothing gets beyond hand warm, even after two hours of pottering around.
I added a few pictures of my motormount, made out of aluminium angle from the building market.

The inlet and outlet are situated in the first step of the hull, as the steps draw air under the hull, putting them towards the transom (as I do in non-steppd hulls) would not work here.

Having them so far forward is actually a benefit in this hull, as the tubing can stay as short as possible, reducing the drag in the cooling system.

The inlet and outlet are 4 mm thin walled aluminium tubing, as you can see the outlet has a 180 turn to make it point towards the rear, creating sucktion.

The motormount cooling is a square piece of 6 mm thick aluminium, drilled for the coupler and the motormounting bolts, the watercooling is simple; a 3,3 mm hole derilled through the top of the square, widened on both sides to 4 mm to accept two pieces of aluminium tubing, glued in with loctite.

Regards, Jan.
Logged
Boaters are nice people

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2017, 09:17:20 PM »

Hi again,
Thanks again to all that have added an opinion or link to the various items it is very much appreciated and is a great help.

Just a small update,I've glued  some of the reinforcement parts to the ribs (all as per manual which is excellent) and I've made progress on the Hobbyzone Building slip so I'm incorporating a mini build log in this one.
The quality of the Building Slip is excellent with all the pieces a perfect fit with each other, the instructions are a bit vague but I'm battling through.
The fist set of pics are where I'm up to with the Riva and the last few are of the Building Slip.
Thanks again to all who have posted so far.
Dave
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,058
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2017, 09:26:50 PM »


Wipe off as much glue as you can while it's still wet / damp, it will aid with painting / varnishing / sealing later.
   :-))

Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2017, 11:24:44 PM »


Hi All,Thanks for the info Martin.
Just a small update tonight. Managed to finish the Hobbyzone Building Slip and set it all up for the Riva.
I have glued the first rib (num 5) into place using the slip and it takes all the worry of guessing if it is square etc.
Thanks again for looking.
Dave





Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,043
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2017, 03:46:07 AM »

Hi Dave....couldn't agree more that the early stages in model ship construction needs to ensure squareness in all dimensional relationships, so from this I would have assumed that the Hobbyzone Building Slip assisted with this

Once any squareness irregularity is encountered, continued building without correction can be a catastrophic

If Rib/Frame No 5/5 is glued in, it would suggest  %) something is not square

Best resolve & correct this early on in the build :-))

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2017, 11:34:28 AM »

Hi Derek,
I think it might be the angle I took the picture as it is all perfectly square when I removed the backing plate to check it.
Thanks
Dave
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,043
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2017, 10:54:43 PM »

OK...good to hear Dave....puts push to those two fables... {-)

1. a camera never lies
2. what about optical parallax error?

Keep us posted with build images.......these Aquarama make a beautiful varnished hulled vessel :-))

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2017, 12:04:16 AM »

Hi Derek,
Not a clue what Optical parallax error is  {-)


Added a few more ribs/formers this evening and part number 49 into the 10 and 11 ribs.The slots in rib 11 are larger than needed and the instructions do not really show a close up but I have fitted it to the bottom of the slot as that would give the more stronger joint, it also gives part 49 a slight slope to the rear.
Also popped the plans on to the wall to give me inspiration.
Thanks
Dave

Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2017, 12:14:15 AM »

Hi All,
I've also been thinking in regard to the option of having it as an RC boat.
I might leave it until my second build which at this current thought train is going to be either a Dumas Typhoon or a Legends 1958 California Cracker Box.
But I'm not sure. It gives me something to think about.
Thanks
Dave
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2017, 08:26:00 PM »

Hi all,
Just a small update.
I only have a short time in the evenings to bits and pieces on the Riva so here's where I'm upto at the moment.
I've just finished the Transom and I'm about to start the reinforcements at the bow. I wanted the transom pretty solid so I have used quite a lot of Aliphatic there but it seems really solid.
Also Jan I have measured the shafts ans they are 240mm end to end.
Thanks for looking in
Dave



Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

pompebled

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 586
  • Location: Sneek, Netherlands
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2017, 09:47:08 PM »

Hi Dave,

Propshaft angle talk;
For a model to run properly on the plane, the angle of the propshaft should not exceed 7 degrees.
Attached is a picture showing the angle on my M.A.S., given that the hull is 110 cm long and the propshaft is 50 cm long, the shaft is roughly half the length of the hull, this gives me the opportunity to have a 5-6 angle and still have room for a 60 mm prop.

If the Riva should arrive at a similar angle, the shafts should be about 40 cm long.

You measured only 24 cm, which is dramatically short if the motors will be mounted in direct drive, as shown on the plans.
Sure, the boat will run, but the steep propshaft angle will lift the transom and push down the bow, once you get over a certain speed, making the boat plow through the water like a tug.
More power will eventually get it to plane out, but the running attitude will not be good.

Either build the boat according to the plan and accept the fact it'll run disappointingly, or go for (much) longer propshafts, or use belt drives to reduce the propshaft angle as much as possible, using 24 cm long shafts.

Longer propshafts with the motors under the front deck, in order to not compromise the interior, is a major change and should be done while you still have access to the interior (prior to planking).

Using toothed belts, so the motors sit next (or on top) of the propshafts, requires very little change, but should also be done prior to planking, to have good access.
As an example how toothed belt drives look:
https://www.rapidonline.com/reely-toothed-drive-belts-iso5296-521179

In the Riva I would use small pulleys and short belts, to make things fit under the motor hatch.
Here's an example of a forummember (Red181), he tested various combinations to arrive at the optimal rpm for the prop, I'd go with a 1:1 gearing, using two of the small belt wheels, so the shaft will be as close to the bottom as possible:
https://youtu.be/e0vJGoCM8vM

Let me know what you think.

Regards, Jan.
Logged
Boaters are nice people

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2017, 10:06:12 PM »

Thanks Jan,the prop shafts in the kit are only for display purpose so I don't think they would be for actually running the boat. I don't think I'm going to go with anything too complicated if I do set it up for RC, I'll just do a direct drive as others have done.
Thanks
Dave
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

martno1fan

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,506
  • Location: Blackpool
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2017, 07:20:30 AM »


Hi Martin,thanks.
What resin would you recommend. Also when that is done I take it I still need to varnish. I think i prefer this method than to start with fibreglassing.
Thanks
Dave

You need to use epoxy resin,not the quick setting glue type it needs to be slow setting epoxy it takes around 6-8 hrs to dry and 24 hrs to fully harden.
I havent used this brand before but it should work fine.So long as the boats built well you shouldnt even need any cloth,i built a gas boat years ago and never used cloth just sealed with epoxy and it was tough as nails having had crashes at 50 mph and never more than a scratch lol.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Low-Viscosity-Ultra-Clear-Epoxy-Resin-UV-Resistant-500g-Kit-/332102957509?hash=item4d52e0f9c5:g:YfQAAOSw~y9ZBGMv
Logged

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2017, 01:58:22 PM »

Hi All,
Thanks for the link Martin looks good. :-))


I've made a little bit of progress over the last few days.Everything seems to be going as the manual says. All the laser cut parts match the plans. The only discrepancy i have spotted is a part number in the manual is wrong where it say part number 48 but should read 46 which is the port side cabin seat base.
I'm enjoying the build but I only spend a bit of time here and there on it as work and family take up most of it.
If I'm posting too many pictures please let me know.
Thanks
Dave
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2017, 02:00:06 PM »

A few more pictures showing where I am up to.
Next phase will be lining the cabin with the Mahogany.
 
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2017, 03:14:26 PM »

Hi All
I have made a mistake on parts 46 and 47, they are the wrong way round. Can anyone let me know what would disolve Aliphatic glue.
Thanks
Dave
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2017, 03:46:56 PM »

Due to the parts 46 and 47 being glued in the wrong way around I am having to bin the build as I can't release the parts without damaging the surrounding area's.
Expensive mistake.
Thanks for looking.
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2017, 03:48:17 PM »

I would be grateful if Admin could either close or delete the thread.
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

F4TCT

  • I am not completely useless.......I can always serve as a BAD example
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
  • Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire, UK
    • My Boat Builds
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2017, 03:54:35 PM »

awwww no way man  <:(


Was soooo looking forward to this build.


Is there no way round the issue?


Dan
Logged

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 146
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2017, 05:05:14 PM »

You get full size templates with plans also the laser cut ply sheets which have profiles left behind that you can use as templates, give it some thought, may not be that difficult
Mike.
Logged

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2017, 05:41:01 PM »

Hi Mike,
Yes you do but I have no way of cutting the plywood (no saw for that type of work) and it would damage too much of the framework getting the old wood out.I have tried with a scalpel to get into the joints but it's no use.
I think it will make a nice bit of firewood though.
Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 146
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2017, 07:28:35 PM »

Try this.

Aliphatic resin can be softened with heat. I know because have had to do it in the past.
A powerfull heat gun or hair dryer will help.

Mike.
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,594
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2017, 07:48:08 PM »

Hi Dave, why are they the wrong way around? (Obviously apart from being numbered sequencially) Are they not symetrical when installed? What do they do? How important are they to a later build stage?

Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

DaveRuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Leigh,UK
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2017, 08:07:10 PM »

Thanks Mike I ill try it.
HI ballastanksian, I've noticed after fitting they are not symmetrical which makes sense as one of the ribs/formers was the same but I didn't realise it was for the cabin area. I only noticed when I've gone to line the cabin with the ply cutouts and they didn't fit. I will try and melt the glue as Mike as stated in his last post or I might try to butcher the part to try and make it fit.
Needless to say I'm a bit pi.... cheesed off.
Thanks
Dave


Logged
Amati tipo Riva Aquarama (in build)

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,594
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: Amati Riva Aquarama 1st Time Boat Build by Dave
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2017, 08:10:20 PM »

We all go there Dave and after the cussing and carpet chewing, we go back and sort it out. I appreciate that you don not want to fill your mancave with boat projects, but maybe starting on a stablemate will give you a bit of breathing space while you gird your loins to sort the problem out.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up