Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5]   Go Down

Author Topic: Biggish Aquarama Special build  (Read 14903 times)

RST

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 729
  • Location: UK
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2019, 12:59:12 AM »

PoF has been pretty standard for construction for ever.


...fair enough, it must be a really silent boat now.


Did you pack it with buoyancy in the void spaces also?
Logged

Mark T

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Location: Dudley in the Black Country
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2019, 04:03:52 PM »

Hi Mike I'm still following this amazing build and the motor set up looks great.  I was thinking about your front seats and thought that maybe could you carve them out of wood and apply a fabric on top of that?  I know that they would not feel soft but you may get the look that you want?


Also for sound deadening I thought that maybe Dynamat could be used on the very bottom of the hull.  Its great for sound proofing as this is what they use in cars but its also very heavy for what it is.  It could also be used a ballast?


Keep the updates coming  :-))
Logged
Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2019, 06:55:52 PM »

Hello Mark.


I'm happy with the sound level now, it will be even lower when the boat is in the water. I do have to keep an eye the weight from now on, so I can't consider any more sound deadening materials.

I discovered today that the left side shaft assembly had stiffened slightly causing a drop in max rpm and build up of heat at the shaft tube outboard end  and at the P bracket shaft tube, really quite worrying. I found that the overall alignment had changed since it was last checked to. I had to remove the P bracket which was bonded in with epoxy resin, ( and quite a goodly amount ),  + 6 x M1.6  s/s nuts and bolts through the bracket, bottom planking, inside reinforcement and brass plate, what a job that was !! Anyway, it's all fixed now. I think the change in the weather may have caused it. After comparing the full speed of the two motors now, they are within 25 RPM of each other, 12300 right and 12275 left. Very happy with that.
As for the seats, the  basic core is done for both  and red piping is made, it's the cushioning and vinyl covering  where I'm struggling. No doubt I'll get there, eventually.


Mike.






Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,133
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #103 on: December 07, 2019, 07:54:13 PM »

Mike....great that the threads are now linked....


Just thinking & in hindsight, if a propeller hit a submerged chunk of jet-some, it is remotely possible to put stress on the exposed length of propeller shaft & so distort the P bracket


If this happens again, for additional strength, you could consider silver soldering a triangular gusset to each bracket base..or with a little ingenuity........ %) ....mount the gusset at an angle next to the support leading edge to make it more aerodynamic 


Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Mark T

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Location: Dudley in the Black Country
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #104 on: December 07, 2019, 09:38:53 PM »

Hello Mark.


I'm happy with the sound level now, it will be even lower when the boat is in the water. I do have to keep an eye the weight from now on, so I can't consider any more sound deadening materials.

I discovered today that the left side shaft assembly had stiffened slightly causing a drop in max rpm and build up of heat at the shaft tube outboard end  and at the P bracket shaft tube, really quite worrying. I found that the overall alignment had changed since it was last checked to. I had to remove the P bracket which was bonded in with epoxy resin, ( and quite a goodly amount ),  + 6 x M1.6  s/s nuts and bolts through the bracket, bottom planking, inside reinforcement and brass plate, what a job that was !! Anyway, it's all fixed now. I think the change in the weather may have caused it. After comparing the full speed of the two motors now, they are within 25 RPM of each other, 12300 right and 12275 left. Very happy with that.
As for the seats, the  basic core is done for both  and red piping is made, it's the cushioning and vinyl covering  where I'm struggling. No doubt I'll get there, eventually.


Mike.


Hi Mike


Wow - that really is a find a I really admire your quest for such precision I would never have thought of heat build up like you have found. I have no experience in building seats but having seen your build I have no doubt that the answer will be discovered by you.  Great build mate keep the pictures coming and good luck
Logged
Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #105 on: December 08, 2019, 02:31:05 AM »

I take your point Derek, but I suppose you have to draw the line somewhere when deciding what precautions to take against things that might happen.
I don't fully understand what you are proposing from the photos, other than adding more metal to the struts.
I would certainly have a stronger structure that's for sure, but at the cost of loosing any scale appearance which is quite important to me.
The strut itself is made from 3mm hard brass plate which was fully tempered following silver soldering and the flanges are a tad over 1mm thick. The assembly is epoxy glued into the hull which has 5mm Birch ply re-enforcing on the inside together with brass plates and 6 bolts, washers and nuts. All in all I think it should be sturdy enough cope with most situations but as you point out, not all.
I have profiled the leading edge of the strut and the "P" shaft tube which I think is visible in the photos.


Please don't get me wrong Derek, I really do appreciate your input very much and will give it more thought, after all, no-one knows what's lurking just under the surface ☺☺


Mike.

Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,133
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #106 on: December 08, 2019, 04:22:46 AM »

OK Mike....considering the need to maintain scale appearance...'and functionality' could we ask


1. were the original full sized vessel complete P support brackets for the vessel cast bronze?
2. if so, this Bronze material, dependent on the Grade has greater 'toughness & stiffness' [resistance to bending] than certain carbon steels....and certainly soft Brass plate or strip
3. did your fabricate P frame construction include radii at change of section between the bracket base to the support arm?...so to increase the wetted surface of the soldered joint?
4. what Grade of Brass Plate did you use for each P support assembly?
6. what cooling process did you apply after the silver soldering process?


Maybe you have already covered all of these questions??...I can see the owner of a full sized Riveria up in arms &  <:(  about the cost of a propeller needing hammering & re-balancing, but not any case of the P frame bending


Derek 
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #107 on: December 08, 2019, 02:57:43 PM »

Right then Derek, here we go.


Q1... I don't know, probably.


Q2... I believe you.


Q3... Yes.


Q4... I don't know, It was sold to me as "Hard Brass". It was certainly the hardest Brass that I have ever cut, just ask my poor bandsaw.


Q5... As you probably know, following annealing Brass self hardens over time and it doesn't take that long to do it. The process starts as soon as it has cooled.


If the bracket does take a big hit from something solid in the water while at speed, full size or model, I think it would take out a good portion of the wooden hull bottom as well as destroying the shafts and tubes plus a large part of other stuff inside the boat. Sounds like a nightmare, so I'm not even going to think about it.  :(( :((


Mike.
Logged

Mark T

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Location: Dudley in the Black Country
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #108 on: December 08, 2019, 03:11:06 PM »

They must be some of the most solid P frames I've ever seen for a model boat.  As you have said if they managed to actually break there wouldn't be much left of the hull.  But honestly whats the chance - very slim I would say.
Logged
Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #109 on: December 08, 2019, 03:21:18 PM »

They must be some of the most solid P frames I've ever seen for a model boat.  As you have said if they managed to actually break there wouldn't be much left of the hull.  But honestly whats the chance - very slim I would say.
Hi Mark.
You never know, there just might be a submerged metal container floating just under the water in the lake that has fallen off a Container Ship during a storm.  ok2


Mike.
Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,133
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #110 on: December 09, 2019, 12:15:37 AM »

Mike...there are obscure methods  %) of accelerating work hardness of small yellow brass items that has been fabricated and silver soldered


By example, support your P bracket by the horizontal bottom plate in wooden supports in a machine vice


Take a 'say' 6 mm diameter aluminium rod & face the end......mount this in the smallest possible hand held impact drill [set to impact]
Burnish the surface in rotational impact mode on both [of the vertical sides full area] of the leg bracket......if the silver soldered joint is substantial, the resulting high speed vibration, low impact hammering will [after time] return the vertical plate to the original hardness that was achieved during the cold reduction rolling during production or the plate


This accelerated work hardening cannot exceed the hardness level attained during the original rolling


Yellow brass melts are rolled from soft to spring [or hardness] in about 5 ? levels or grades..........so you could check by a simple Fish Scale & pull the leg bracket....measure the deflection force on the leg, then check for return spring back

[In my original note, I was musing on the flot-some hitting a rotating propeller, not the P Bracket. the reaction force of this contacting a rotating propeller is many x fold contacting a P bracket]

Derek


Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

T888

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 391
  • Location: SOUTHAMPTON
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #111 on: December 09, 2019, 01:46:54 PM »

Hi Mike,
Lovely model. :-))


As for the risk of damaging P frames, I agree keep it to scale . Ive personally never had a P frame damaged, even when I raced IC boats, some time they would hit under water items like wooded sticks. The rudder was the part that usually bent or damage.
Logged
Regards Dave
In Build ..... USS Roosevelt (DDG-80) KM Graf Spee ,KM Sharnhost
HS Elli? In Refit HMS Cornwall T22.

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #112 on: December 09, 2019, 04:29:06 PM »

Mike...there are obscure methods  %) of accelerating work hardness of small yellow brass items that has been fabricated and silver soldered


By example, support your P bracket by the horizontal bottom plate in wooden supports in a machine vice


Take a 'say' 6 mm diameter aluminium rod & face the end......mount this in the smallest possible hand held impact drill [set to impact]
Burnish the surface in rotational impact mode on both [of the vertical sides full area] of the leg bracket......if the silver soldered joint is substantial, the resulting high speed vibration, low impact hammering will [after time] return the vertical plate to the original hardness that was achieved during the cold reduction rolling during production or the plate


This accelerated work hardening cannot exceed the hardness level attained during the original rolling


Yellow brass melts are rolled from soft to spring [or hardness] in about 5 ? levels or grades..........so you could check by a simple Fish Scale & pull the leg bracket....measure the deflection force on the leg, then check for return spring back

[In my original note, I was musing on the flot-some hitting a rotating propeller, not the P Bracket. the reaction force of this contacting a rotating propeller is many x fold contacting a P bracket]

Derek
Hi. Derek. 
Due to the many hours that I have spent aligning the motors/ couplings/pillow bearings/ shaft tubes and P brackets, also, taken into account all of the suggestions, opinions and recommendations received, I have now installed the complete transmission system permanently, so no more mods, adjustments need doing.
I'm very happy with the outcome so can now move on to to face my nemesis, the front two seats. At the moment they are winning but that situation isn't going to last much longer.
Your technical input is most helpful, as it usually is, so many thanks for that.
BTW, how are you with seats, upholstery and sewing machines ? ☺☺.
Logged

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #113 on: December 09, 2019, 04:33:32 PM »

Hi Mike,
Lovely model. :-))


As for the risk of damaging P frames, I agree keep it to scale . Ive personally never had a P frame damaged, even when I raced IC boats, some time they would hit under water items like wooded sticks. The rudder was the part that usually bent or damage.
Thanks for that Dave.
It's good to hear from someone who's been there, done that.
Mike.
Logged

spiff

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Spain
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2019, 06:56:40 AM »

After comparing the full speed of the two motors now, they are within 25 RPM of each other, 12300 right and 12275 left. Very happy with that.


Hi Mike,  how did you measure the motor RPM?
Logged

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2019, 10:05:32 AM »


Hi Mike,  how did you measure the motor RPM?
Hi Spiff.
My transmitter is capable of receiving and displaying up to 15 sensors from the boat.
For the motor rpm I have fitted a a small disc on the back of each motor bell with a reflective strip on each one and an opto reader sensor aimed at the disc. They then send the information via i-bus to the receiver which in turn sends that info back to the transmitter which displays the speed on the screen. Just to check the accuracy of the 2 on board sensors I have swapped them over and found that the results are almost identical, less than 10 rpm difference.
I also have sensors that will tell me the  temperature of each Li-Po motor battery along with their voltage plus the receiver voltage.
Maybe a bit over the top I suppose but having that information could well save the boat at sometime..
The cost of each module is surprisingly low, ranging from 3.50 up to 8.00, so not that much really when compared to the overall investment in the boat.
As a matter of interest, by using the i-bus system I now only have 1 lead running from all of the sensors, including the servos,  back to the receiver which makes for a very tidy installation.


Mike.
Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,133
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2019, 09:57:30 PM »

...."a bit over the top" .......no Mike.......

Sounds like the cheapest form of technology driven insurance + the ability for true motor/battery performance over simulated [bath tub] tests is brilliant :-)) ...& all for the cost of a few packets of cigarettes....a no brainer


Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #117 on: December 13, 2019, 04:33:38 PM »


Hi all.

Your thoughts re. weight and performance would be appreciated, (front seats still on hold !! ).
The boat at present weights 6.3 kg. including the windscreen, allowance for front seats, radio Rx., 2x motors, 2x ESC's, rudder servo and water-cooling plumbing with exhaust pipes.
The 2 Li-Po motor batteries weigh 1.35kg including a small auxillary Li-On battery  which brings the total weight as is is 7.65 Kg.

To be allowed for are the varnishing and a little gloss paint.
The motors are 50mm outrunners of 1300 watts each turning cast bronze propellers of 48mm diameter X 75mm pitch. The hull is 1.27 loa and 385mm maximum beam.
Your thoughts appreciate please.


Mike.
Logged

SailorGreg

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 839
  • Money talks - it says goodbye
  • Location: Hayling Island, Hants
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #118 on: December 13, 2019, 06:10:38 PM »

Well Mike, I'm not sure what thoughts you are hoping for, but my first reaction is you're gonna need a BIG lake! 2.6kW of power through some pretty aggressive props should see you worrying about the range of your radio after about 10 seconds running at full chat. Can't wait for the video!

Greg

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #119 on: December 13, 2019, 06:58:48 PM »

Thanks for that Gregg.


I made a mistake about the motors, they are intact 1410 watts each.


Will do a video but as Gladiator said, "Not Yet ".
 

Sorry.


Mike.
Logged

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #120 on: January 12, 2020, 03:31:29 PM »

Very little work done recently, just trying to finish the wiring and making the 2 Louvre front cabin doors.


All the sensors are fitted and working, just the docking lights and the dashboard ignition LED's to complete.



Here are a few pictures.


Mike.



Logged

ukmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • I used to be indecisive... but now I'm not so sure
  • Location: Gorleston Norfolk
Re: Biggish Aquarama Special build
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2020, 04:15:55 PM »

Here are some pictures of the cabin Louvre doors in place but not permanently fitted.


I'm not at all happy with the size, they should be somewhat larger but I can't do anything about it now.


The only really accurate part of the plan are the frames, I did abandon using it early in the build but not early enough, unfortunately  :(( .


Things became an awful lot better buy referring to the hundreds of pictures on the net and they are all that I am using now.


Mike.



Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5]   Go Up