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Author Topic: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship  (Read 680 times)

alainFr

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Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« on: March 15, 2019, 03:05:14 PM »

Hello everybody,
First forgive me if Iím wrong column!
I am a French modelist ( I know, nobody is perfect %) Ö. ) and since I have been in contact with Paul an English modelist , I have been very interested in the Victorian battleships especially those of the Admiral class. I find them very attractive with their open barbettes!.
I searched for business plans on the internet but found nothing. From what I understand we can buy plans at the NMM but, first, their site is a bit complicated for poor French and apparently it is also very expensive!    So I would like to know if someone could inform me or sell me a plan or a copy at an acceptable price?.
I thank you in advance for your help!
Alain
Then forgive me for my bad English, donít make fun of me, already that we got a big beating in rugby!!!!
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ballastanksian

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 09:05:46 PM »


Bienvenue Alain! Without looking deeper, you might be able to find plans of the Sovereigns which were the daughters of the Admirals and then modify them to create the correct hull form. From memory they were not that different in size. The issue will be the superstructure references. You have the potential fun of creating removable barbettes to fit Turrets so you can turn your model into HMS Hood, or make single 16inch behemoths to create HMS Benbow!



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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 08:50:55 AM »

Hello,


Many thanks for your answer!


However, if I may, there is nevertheless a small difference between the hulls of the Royal Sovereign and those of the Admiral class. The length between perpendicular is 380' for the Sovereign and only 330' for the Admiral class, 325' for the HMS Collingwood.
In addition, I practice in championship so you have to provide a plan for your model to be judged, so it is hardly possible to settle for approximation using plans that do not actually match your model!
Serious documentation is essential for me especially at the level of plans.


I bought Friedmanís book British battleship of victorian Era or thereís already a big plan of the profile of the Camperdown, that already makes me one!


So I found some links to buy other Camperdown plans at NMM :


https://prints.rmg.co.uk/collections/ship-plans/products/spar-deck-plan-for-camperdown-1885-j9492


https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/upper-deck-plan-for-camperdown-1885-j9493


They are certainly very nice plans but not given either!!!


So Iím looking for someone who already has these plans to have a copy at a reasonable price or who would agree to buy these plans together to share the costs.


I give you these links to show you what I do :


http://www.laroyale-modelisme.net/t15497-monitor-bm7-arkansas-au-1-48e-sur-plan


http://www.laroyale-modelisme.net/t16254-russian-gunboat-bk-1124-au-1-20e-sur-plan


http://www.laroyale-modelisme.net/t21283-sms-monarch-cuirasse-austro-hongrois-au-1-65e-sur-plan


I expect your help and even better proposals!


Alain


PS : If I may, it is not easy to post on your forum, because I have to answer purely British questions before sending my message!  {:-{
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 11:03:38 AM »

Alain,

Your work is very good, you have some very attractive models. I understand your point about documentation for exhibitions and competitions as I was a judge for many years at the UK Model Engineer Exhibition. Unfortunately very few people here are interested in entering champoinships now as they were in the past.

I think the only accurate plans for your purpose will be the very expensive ones from the National Maritime Museum although they are not as expensive as they used to be, I paid £50 for plans aof a ferryboat back in around 1982!

There is a a drawing of Camperdown with sections in R A Burt's book 'British Battleships 1889-1904 which also has various photos of the class. The drawing extends across the spine of the book but I have photographed it as below to give you some idea.

Colin

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ballastanksian

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 07:14:16 PM »

Fabulous work Alain! I really like the US Monitor.
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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 05:34:31 PM »

Hello everybody,


Thank you Collins but I already have this drawing.
Only the profile is useful with the layout of the masts.
I have a schematic of the Benbowís hull with the sections that will be sufficient I think for the construction of the hull.


So I think the essential plans are those of the upper deck, spar deck and main deck of the NMM. Iím gonna have to break my piggy bank!


Alain
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 06:52:19 PM »

Yes Alain, sometimnes you just have to suffer for your hobby. But it will all be worth it in the end. What better way to spend your money?


Colin
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ballastanksian

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2019, 09:36:47 PM »

I can't wait to see models of those 6 inch guns Alain! Even in 1:96th/1:100th, they will be impressive.
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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2019, 02:59:58 PM »

Hello everybody,


Colin I agree with you, when you have a passion, you don't count!
Then I don't smoke so it's always that to save!
And then life is short, already well started as far as I am concerned, and it's no use to tke your money "into the hole"!


If I ever start this project, it will be realized in 1/67e scale! I have other projects on this scale, espacially in the French navy, so it's to keep a homogeneous scale!


I tried to see if there were models of yours Victorian battleships, but I didn't find much. That doesn't look like you're very interested there over the Channel?!


It's a pity because I find your battleships from that time, for once .... very beautiful! And especially those of the Admiral class impress me with their big guns in open barbette : we have impression that they will jump in the air at the first cannon shot !!!


Best regards


Alain


PS : I have a problem with this question !! : Type : everyone hate spammers! ........... i don't understant that i must answer !!!

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 04:58:16 PM »

Alain

We did have a superb builder of Victorian battleship models, Brian King who sadly died a few years ago and was a good friend. Among his models was the French battleship Bouvet (photos below)

His models were sold afterwards but did not fetch very high prices despite being built to the very highest standard. You can see some of his work here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=brian+king+model&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=vEHgeNfKILCqQM%253A%252Cj9sIHETaOmf4eM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQLfntEt_0x_60nCUAy17VUR_fAyg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNvtuLkpHhAhU5XRUIHdlWCZYQ9QEwAHoECAkQBA#imgrc=vEHgeNfKILCqQM:

Brian also wrote a number of books on scale modelmaking including 'Modelling Late Victorian Battleships'

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/modelling-late-victorian-battleships/author/brian-king/

Deans Marine offer a kit of HMS Hannibal:

http://deansmarine.co.uk/shop/product_info.php/products_id/471

an you can see some examples here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=deans+marine+hannibal&client=firefox-b-ab&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=InCcmA83MFCAjM%253A%252CihqwMpQR_5NQqM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRt1uo04fMpk2xz4hr4lI21TRxmig&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjd_9LGlJHhAhUmQxUIHeU9DdkQ9QEwBnoECAgQBA#imgrc=InCcmA83MFCAjM:

Colin
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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 05:34:16 PM »

Colin, thank you for your quickly answer !


Yes, I know Brian Kingís models and I bought his book on Late Victorian battleships.
I did not know his model of the Bouvet, it is very beautiful with a nice painting!


I also know the Deans Marine kits, but i'm not really fanatical about them. They take a lot of work to remove their "plastic aspect", I think. They are relatively expensive too I find, you can buy all the NMM plans for cheaper and build to the scale you want!.
In terms of navigating model my choice is clearly on complete scratchbuild especially since I generally choose unusual models and scales!


Alain






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Colin Bishop

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 06:31:58 PM »

Alain,

Bouvet is a very good model but not Brian's very best work however he was aged 85 at the time which is amazing.

There are still some very good modellers in the UK but I don't think any specialise in Victorian period warships. Also it is sad that people in the UK are generally no longer interested in entering their work in national or international competitions. I do not really know why as the UK used to be very well represented at NAVIGA Scale competitions at one time and won many awards. We also had our Model Engineering Exhibition in London which was very prestigious and attracted many entries.

I am very interested in Naval history including the Victorian and WW1 periods in particular and I agree that the designs of the period are of great interest but for modelling I prefer to build merchant ships!

The National Maritime Museum drawings are works of art but they do need a lot of study to interpret them for modelling purposes. Also some fittings are not shown in detail as they were standardised items.

I hope my English is OK for you as my French is not very good like most people in the UK! My Wife and I have however visited most parts of France over many years and love your country but the civil unrest at the moment does not encourage holidays in France for us at present. Maybe things will be better later in the year. We live in the South East of England so it is easy for us to take a ferry over La Manche.

Colin
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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 09:54:16 AM »

Hello Colin,


As I have already said, I take part in the French championships but also in the world championships. In 2015 I was in Hungary for the world championships, there were Germans, Russians, Chinese etc .... but not a single English!
It's too bad because you still have a great modeller in your country, right ?!

This year I return to team France and it is again in Hungary next July. Maybe this time there will be an English?


I have seen reports of your exhibitions in London, there are sacred models anyway! Does this exhibition still exist?


I am aware that the plans of the NMM are specific to be deciphered and that it probably takes complementary plans, especially at the level of secondary armament, to make a valid model.
Iím counting on your help on this?!  %)


As regards my English .... it is catastrophic !!!! :embarrassed:
At school I hated everything that was foreign languages and even French I didn't like it! There were only 3 subjects that interested me : mathematics, physics and history!
To write you I use the Reverso site and I hope I can make myself understood, the translation is probably not always fair !!!  :}


Alain

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 11:49:35 AM »

Alain,

The UK used to be very active in the NAVIGA Scale Championship but there has been very little or no interest in recent years. One reason is that, although there are still some excellent models being contructed, the builders do not wish to enter competitions. Another reason, and maybe connected with that is that the average age of the entrants at the last Model Engineer Exhibition competition in 2016 was over 70 years which reflects the increasing age of model boat builders generally. People of retirement age are less willing and able to travel than younger people and the older modellers are not being replaced by older ones. I think about 70% of members of this forum are over 65 years old. I don't know if it is the same in Europe generally. The Russians and Chinese seem to build very good models although I am told that Chinese models are often built by groups!

Another factor is that marine modelling is stronger in the Northern part of the UK now whilst in the past there were more modellers in Southern England. This adds to the journey to European events plus of course a ferry crossing is also necessary.

At the last MEX Competition there was a superb model of HMS Renown which was Admiral Fisher's favourite ship. Photos below.

Colin
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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 01:24:40 PM »

Colin,


Thank you so much for the images of this HMS Renow, it is really a beautiful model I love!!!


For the problem of age, we have the same problem in France!.
In my club I'm the youngest ..... at 57 years and there are only 2 of us still working on 30, all the others are retired!!!  :o
There is a real crisis of vocation among young people, only videos and mobile phones interest them, and everything even faster...... also taking 3 or 4 years to build a model is out of their brain!!!!
Itís too bad because itís a very interesting passion, thatís how life is ............ <:( <:(


So most of modellers are in the Highlands then ??!! It's true that it's takes more times to gett off the mountains then !!
And soon with Brexit you will no longer be allowed to leave your island !!!
You Brexit, we "Yellow vests" to each his crisis!!!
Seriously if you have any others photos of this model or any other I'm a taker!!


Thanks again, Colin !  :-))


Alain

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Ian K

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2019, 07:06:01 PM »


Hi Alain,


All I have plan wise is the Royal Sovereign class (full set) and these scans of the NMM deck plans of HMS Camperdown.


Ian
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alainFr

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Re: Plans of Admiral Class Battleship
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2019, 08:14:57 AM »

Hello Ian


Many thanks for your answer!


I already have the scans of these Camperdown decks plans. Unfortunately the resolution is not enought and in enlargement, the plans become unreadable! In competition as I practice, you must provide a scale plan of your model and so this will not accepted as quality.


Thank you for the pictures!


I will send you a private message for the plans of the Royal Sovereign, thank you very much!


Alain





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