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Author Topic: A Greek BIREME  (Read 23388 times)

ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #150 on: August 14, 2017, 08:56:19 pm »

I like your idea of clamping the planks together their ends to keep them level.

She's looking good Ken  :-))
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #151 on: August 14, 2017, 09:12:57 pm »

Thanks Ian, it will help to keep things square.

No-one has commented on the reversal of the frame and keel fitting slots. The keel is cut from the bottom upwards, half way, and the frames are cut from their centres downwards.

Because the slots are lengthy, I cannot reduce the inner heights of the frames because I'll run out of timber in the joint.  Hence I have more height than I would have liked, giving a  'centre board effect' .  You can see the partial loss of timber close to the red clamp in the last picture.

It looks like a ridge to separate the rowers !! so maybe I'll get away with it  :}



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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #152 on: August 14, 2017, 09:23:42 pm »

Galleys had a 'corsia' or flying bridge that ran from quarter deck to bows, so that could sit on the 'centre board' hiding it. What scale is she now? You may well be able to get some Greek wargames figures to populate her. Let me know and I will research some ranges for you to look at.



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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #153 on: August 14, 2017, 09:31:03 pm »


Regarding scale, I too pondered this.

We would need to know the actual length of the real ship which might prove difficult.  I would, however like to estimate it might be between 1/40 and 1/60 as the little people might be around 25mm tall. Mind you, on reflection, them oars are pretty big.    {-)     {-)

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Bob K

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #154 on: August 14, 2017, 10:17:48 pm »

I am sure you must have seen this, but Greece built a replica Trireme, "Olympias" in 1987

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGl8LB9Zxo

Another YouTube vid about them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e1cmprH6BY

On Google, a typical Bireme was about 24 meters in length.
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #155 on: August 14, 2017, 10:24:44 pm »


Thanks Bob.   :-)) 

I was checking YouTube when I got this message. There's certainly a lot on there.

Thanks for the size info.  I shall measure mine tomorrow and go from there.

ken

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Colin Bishop

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #156 on: August 14, 2017, 10:30:45 pm »

Biremes were generally smaller than triremes.
Colin
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #157 on: August 14, 2017, 10:33:52 pm »


This version is now bigger, maybe another row of oars.    :}

ken

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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #158 on: August 15, 2017, 08:12:28 pm »

Traditionally 25mm figures were 1:72nd scale. Then 25mm became 'Foot to eye' and then 28mm came along and anything goes!

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #159 on: August 16, 2017, 10:19:39 am »


I will try and work out the size comparisons fellas.

We have started planking and it's beginning to come together with more of a  'boaty'  look. I do enjoy this part as it's very satisfying watching the final shape appear.

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radiojoe

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #160 on: August 16, 2017, 12:08:18 pm »


When considering the height of the crew, bare in mind, and you probably have already thought of it Ken,  the average height of a man in those days was considerably shorter that today, even in Nelsons day if you were 5' 8" you would have been considered a tall man with Nelson himself being 5' 4". Just an observation Ken,, not wanting to teach granny to suck eggs,   %% {-) Good progress on the new hull :-))


Joe.
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #161 on: August 16, 2017, 01:37:59 pm »

The problem with scaling figures and allowing for the lower average height is that the head size and the girth were as now or thereabouts.
Need leg reduction surgery?


Tony


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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #162 on: August 16, 2017, 05:32:41 pm »

The oarsmen would have been the largest and strongest they could get.

They need to be sat down also.

Make the seats a bit lower and you'll be OK!

Ned



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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #163 on: August 16, 2017, 09:42:14 pm »


Thanks for the replies gents.  All interesting stuff.

To this end I have placed a soldier of modern extract with an oar on deck.   {-) {-)

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #164 on: August 16, 2017, 09:44:32 pm »


mmmph !!!  I think I'll have to think it out again.

Onwards with the planking marathon.   Here is the latest stage.  More to do yet and I'm feeling encouraged. 
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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #165 on: August 16, 2017, 09:50:55 pm »

The hull looks fab ken.
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #166 on: August 16, 2017, 09:56:17 pm »

It's quite smooth and laid carefully  (this time   %) )  Now looking forward to steaming the front  (unglued as of yet)  planks then curve them into place.

This is something I've never done before and will hope hot steamy air will soften them enough to do the job.  This is why I have secured them mid riff, as it were, to hold them stable.


ps   Did you notice the little man was not really to the correct scale.  We'll get there eventually.    ok2


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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #167 on: August 16, 2017, 10:11:13 pm »

I was going to ask what make and scale he was, but decided to keep my mind on the planking  :-))   He looks like a 1:56th scale Russian to me.
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #168 on: August 19, 2017, 10:03:36 am »


And now the BAD news.   She is tooooo wide. The ship is actually quite narrow in proportion to the length


It has been nagging me these last few days and was only confirmed when the planking went on.  The hull is wider than the ships that I have seen on the Web. 

Thanks to Bob K,  I have been over to the Trireme site in America and studied their films from all angles.  There is a cracking film of their Real ship being rowed along the Thames which finally convinced me of her size and proportions. I should even be able to get the size of the little people right.


Today I start work on a brand new Trireme.  I will post pictures of the bireme as she is later when the tears have dried.     %)   :o   :D

Cheers

ken

 


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Bob K

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #169 on: August 19, 2017, 11:18:04 am »

So sorry too hear that Kenny.  Note the Triremes were quite a bit wider from having an overhanging section for the upper rows of oars.  There are probably plans available for the trireme Olympias as Greece built a full size one.  Most impressive underway. 

Some nice documentaries available on the Battle of Salamis when the Greek triremes routed a much larger fleet of Persian ships.  Fascinating era.
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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #170 on: August 19, 2017, 02:51:38 pm »

Nooooooo  %% Could you not cut her in half and add an extra length of hull? The frames would be easy to make given them being identical, and you could gauge where to cut the hull by working out where the holes for the oars need to be.

I am worried that you have a Bireme OCD thing going on Ken, as you haven't stopped for weeks now perfecting your ancient warfleet.

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #171 on: August 21, 2017, 08:08:44 pm »


I've finally got the details I was after regarding measurements and have started on build number 3

Here's a group photo with the new design in the centre.  There doesn't seem to be much difference in the picture but the new one in the centre is beginning to look the part.   :}

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #172 on: August 21, 2017, 08:19:46 pm »

The main difference now is that the frames have been cut slimmer and tapered downwards which makes her look more in proportion.

There will an overhanging section on top for the upper rowers.


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radiojoe

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #173 on: August 22, 2017, 12:40:29 pm »


I applaud your patience on this project Ken, I know it will pay dividends in the end and with your resolve I'm sure you will kick the weed soon if you haven't already, I gave it up 17 years ago so I know how hard it is but use that strong resolve of yours believe me it's worth it.  :-))


Joe.
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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #174 on: August 22, 2017, 02:25:15 pm »

Hi Joe.  Thanks for your kind comments.  I would say I'm down to 10 a day as long as I keep busy.

I had forgotten about the very first Bireme that I'd started and realised it was too small for the 'gubbins I had planed for it. So here's a picture of the No 1 with No 4.

Here are the latest views of the build.  We have cut more planking  ( a bit thicker this time to allow for sanding smooth) and have the frames all glued in ready, so have fitted the first row. You might notice the wooden blocks at each end that have been tapered.  This will aid in the adhesion of the planks into a natural curve. I am also going for the  'No nails showing'  effect and going for individual clamps.




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