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Author Topic: Photobucket - our photos held to ransom  (Read 80657 times)

Bob K

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #150 on: July 05, 2017, 03:36:59 PM »

We should be very careful what we ask Martin for.  He already spends a great deal of his time and resources giving us this valuable forum, which is free.  Photobucket kicked the bucket, without warning.  It could equally well have been SmugMug or any of the others, which always could follow suit in the future if they think Photobucket is making more money.

Before asking Martin for additional resources, are we all prepared to help him fund it?  Can some of us even help him administer it, at least the photo hosting part?

I believe we should all up the ante in our annual donations.  Perhaps for a special Gold Star on our profile to encourage greater support.

It is just not practical to repair many thousands of 'lost' images on previous posts, but we can take collective steps to safeguard this problem happening again.  Most of what I have learned about model making in the last six years has come from the many fascinating build threads (with thier oh-so-necessary images ) and the deeply appreciated help and encouragement from other Mayhem members.

We owe it to the next generation of up and coming Modellers to support and assist this excellent forum.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #151 on: July 05, 2017, 04:06:50 PM »



 Thanks Bob.....   :-))

  Let me get some costs together and we'll see what's what...... watt?!


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Baldrick

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #152 on: July 05, 2017, 04:50:08 PM »

We should be very careful what we ask Martin for.  He already spends a great deal of his time and resources giving us this valuable forum, which is free.  Photobucket kicked the bucket, without warning.  It could equally well have been SmugMug or any of the others, which always could follow suit in the future if they think Photobucket is making more money.

Before asking Martin for additional resources, are we all prepared to help him fund it?  Can some of us even help him administer it, at least the photo hosting part?

I believe we should all up the ante in our annual donations.  Perhaps for a special Gold Star on our profile to encourage greater support.

It is just not practical to repair many thousands of 'lost' images on previous posts, but we can take collective steps to safeguard this problem happening again.  Most of what I have learned about model making in the last six years has come from the many fascinating build threads (with thier oh-so-necessary images ) and the deeply appreciated help and encouragement from other Mayhem members.

We owe it to the next generation of up and coming Modellers to support and assist this excellent forum.


  I can't speak for all the membership, it would not be expected that everyone would chip in but if the committed builders were to lob a donation into the pot I am sure it is doable .   But why wait ? Why not get the ball rolling now and build up a head of steam for what I am sure is going to be the best solution
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Bob K

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #153 on: July 05, 2017, 05:00:20 PM »


But why wait ? Why not get the ball rolling now and build up a head of steam for what I am sure is going to be the best solution


Just done that.
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C-3PO

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #154 on: July 05, 2017, 06:13:05 PM »

Not having seen the Mayhem forum database structure I might be shooting myself in the foot...

If the way forward is for example that Mayhem users decide to use one new point of storage (same domain) then for those users it should be possible to get the history back up without much hassle.

In theory if the image file name remained constant it should be possible to upload images to a "new" location (TBC) using an agreed file structure and then with some nimble SQL work re-reference all the historic database posts to point to the new storage location in a matter of seconds.

Just a thought

C-3PO

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grendel

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #155 on: July 05, 2017, 07:32:14 PM »

we have just done similar on another forum, the main administrator and owner was getting tired of spenddding all his time tweaking the forum, so we recruited a few techies  to help with that, someone took over the accounting, and others the meetings side of things, we are all still learning, but by taking some of the day to day tasks we have given him the chance to take more of a back seat. as he does upgrades he is writing a how to so that the rest of us can learn how to, and everything is running smoothly, even just taking on a simple task such as changing a link, with a few hints from hm have been done saving him the effort. just taking 2/3 of the load off his back has given him time to relax and kick back, and we know if we get stuck we can call him for help.
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Surveyor

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #156 on: July 05, 2017, 09:43:16 PM »

Quote ''If the way forward is for example that Mayhem users decide to use one new point of storage (same domain) then for those users it should be possible to get the history back up without much hassle.''

Gentlemen

Although I am new to this forum, I am not new to computing and I note that several of you refer to 'a point of storage' I suspect 'the cloud'.

Your thinking is fundamentally wrong, for you should all be storing your data (images etc) on your own media and only uploading images to the forum as required, thus retaining your images and copyright etc on your own hard drives (or SSD's) which today are cheap.

5 minutes later:   I have just been on the Linux forum and I see that they have within the last month made it even easier for members to upload photos to their posts because now, when you write a post there is at the bottom of the page a line saying ''insert image'' and all you have to do now is click and drag from your own computer (or put in a URL). Previously it was not clear to new members how to insert images in their posts, and you had to go to a different website to do so, but these fellows who run the PCLinuxOS forum are all real experts in this sort of technology, so note how they do it :-))

This is the method used on the PCLinuxOS forum and it works. I use both Linux and Windows 7 Pro and have already asked the Linux administrators to help your forum in this regard, for the effort that you all put in and the kindness in posting pictures etc, just cannot be undermined by organisations such as Photobucket, nor does it need to be!
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C-3PO

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #157 on: July 05, 2017, 09:54:50 PM »



Your thinking is fundamentally wrong, for you should all be storing your data (images etc) on your own media and only uploading images to the forum as required, thus retaining your images and copyright etc on your own hard drives (or SSD's) which today are cheap.


Hi Surveyor - I think most forum users are fully aware of this and maintain the master images on local storage devices - copies are uploaded to the net for others to view or link to forums etc...

When I refer to "new point of storage (same domain)" I am simply referring to the on-line place that the forums can access the images - clearly not the originals!

C-3PO
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Surveyor

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #158 on: July 05, 2017, 10:12:59 PM »

Hello C-3PO

Your polite reply is one of the main reasons why I like this forum of yours (having joined only some 24hrs ago) and I am glad to hear that your fellow members are generally careful with storage of their data.
I do not profess to know how these programs work i.e. uploading images, I only use them, but I know a man who does :-))
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #159 on: July 06, 2017, 01:11:49 AM »


You think you have got the rough end of the pineapple and are hard done by????

That's nothing compared to this,

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/technology/amazon-ebay-images-held-to-ransom-by-photobucket/news-story/f5b3efdaa1dfd7cb5c9a62e6ec2520c6

Much more at stake!!!
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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #160 on: July 06, 2017, 02:16:26 AM »

From the linked article above
"Photobucket, which claims to have more than 100 million members and 15 billion hosted images..."
[/size][/color]
[/size]If they have have 100m members, assuming more than half of them are linking images to 3rd parties. At $400 per year nearly all users will not pay up, perhaps how they arrived at that amount. However, it will damage their reputation, severely, which impacts on the future.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Perhaps if they asked their 100m members for $10 most of them would consider this reasonable, and net revenues could be higher. Speculation on my part.[/color]
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derekwarner

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #161 on: July 06, 2017, 02:53:57 AM »

....'the rough end of the pineapple' ... {-)...love it

Only one from OZ could humour our members with this  :P

Just watch out for those blokes at COLES>>:-( ...   they are selling pineapple branded as DOLE but it's from the Philippines and full of sugar

[don't they understand anything called Dole in Australia has connotation's of  payments made to out of or non working individuals?  <*< ]

Our Golden Circle brand may be a little more expensive....but at least it's an Australian grown product, [however unfortunately owned by that Mr Heinz of the USA]

You can still see all of the left over sharp rough end pineapple bits [after Mr Heinz has rammed it] on Photobucket......

Derek

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #162 on: July 06, 2017, 07:30:02 AM »



Is this a possible partial solution?

Martin has said that Mayhem consumes 15Gb of server space and that to include all the externally sourced photos would effectively double that.

Whilst I know that this is a big leap of faith I am guessing that if we reduced the maximum photo sizee from 300kb per image to 200kb it would mean that the new posts with photos maintained on the server would take little more room than the current system where half the photos are here at a maximum of 300kb per image - & half are held elsewhere.

I thought that I would see what a 200kb photo looked like.

The original of the photo below (I am sure that it would work just the same for a model boat photo!) is 5147 x 2554 and was taken on a 20Mb camera. I have resized it to 1250 x 620  and set the image quality at 60 in Irfanview. This gives us an image size of 176kb.

Is this not good enough for the forum and it would potentially help with the extra number of files stored if they were all to be stored in house.

I would be happy to see what I can do with any size (pixel count or file size) that Martin cares to suggest.
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TheLongBuild

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #163 on: July 06, 2017, 07:46:38 AM »

As I keep saying, 150-200 is more than adequate and will produce a good picture.

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #164 on: July 06, 2017, 09:08:06 AM »

[don't they understand anything called Dole in Australia has connotation's of  payments made to out of or non working individuals?  [/size] ]
[/size]
[/size]The Dole was a word coined on UK at the end of the First World War Derek.
[/size]It meant doling out benefits of all kinds to the needy. It then carried on as
[/size]unemployment benefit and is now laughingly called Jobseekers Allowance :P


Sorry to upset the Bucket thread :embarrassed:


Ned



             Translated by Mods

Don't they understand anything called Dole in Australia has connotation's of  payments made to out of or non working individuals?

The Dole was a word coined on UK at the end of the First World War Derek. It meant doling out benefits of all kinds to the needy. It then carried on as unemployment benefit and is now laughingly called Jobseekers Allowance


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derekwarner

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #165 on: July 06, 2017, 09:26:45 AM »

Has your keyboard gone wonky Ned?....... {-)

I do understand the origin of the word O0......however it was not applied in equal score to Irish stock who fought in the same WW1 as was provided to folk on the mainland

Derek
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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #166 on: July 06, 2017, 10:01:43 AM »

It seems the text followed by a smiley
sometimes minimises itself.
It happens every now and again and not only to me.


Ned


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ken

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #167 on: July 06, 2017, 10:23:55 AM »

After reading the post by Tug Fanatic, I thought I should write something of resizing images etc. but there is no need, for in another thread on this forum there is all the information that one could require and all in excellent concise English. :-))
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #168 on: July 06, 2017, 12:25:17 PM »


Lots of interest here.... is no one building model boats any more?!?!  ok2


OK, a couple more things to add into the mix:


  I have just been on the Linux forum and I see that they have within the last month made it even easier for members to upload photos to their posts because now, when you write a post there is at the bottom of the page a line saying ''insert image'' and all you have to do now is click and drag from your own computer (or put in a URL).

We did previously have this in place but it's externally hosted and proved frustratingly unreliable!
See: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23.msg527861.html#msg527861
( I did make enquires how I could modify the script to point to the Mayhem server but nothing concrete came of it....  {:-{  )




Martin has said that Mayhem consumes 15Gb of server space and that to include all the externally sourced photos would effectively double that.
Whilst I know that this is a big leap of faith I am guessing that if we reduced the maximum photo size from 300kb per image to 200kb it would mean that the new posts with photos maintained on the server would take little more room than the current system where half the photos are here at a maximum of 300kb per image - & half are held elsewhere.
I thought that I would see what a 200kb photo looked like.
The original of the photo below (I am sure that it would work just the same for a model boat photo!) is 5147 x 2554 and was taken on a 20Mb camera. I have resized it to 1250 x 620  and set the image quality at 60 in Irfanview. This gives us an image size of 176kb.
Is this not good enough for the forum and it would potentially help with the extra number of files stored if they were all to be stored in house.
I would be happy to see what I can do with any size (pixel count or file size) that Martin cares to suggest.

Although Disk space is an issue, it's not the main issue, managing the sheer volume of photo files and legal implications are overriding factors.
SMF Forums were never designed to handle the amount of images that we use it for, so there is no 'useful' tools built in to manage it. ( There are several 'add-on' apps available but several times when SMF do an update, they break the add ons! )
Also annoyingly, SMF do use a photo attachment app that seems to work quite well, but I can't find out what it is and how it's implemented! ... actually they just have a VERY large Server!   {:-{

Another major factor in this
narrative is, what happens if someone starts hosting illegal images on the Mayhem server?!
At the moment, you can only post photos into posts. If you ( or I ) delete the post, it also deletes the images associated with that post, low risk for Admin. If ( when ) we start hosting images, not directly tied to posts i.e. just sitting on the server,  and it's child porn,  'Big Trouble in Little China!'

All that aside, still working on a way to:
a, Host the images on the Mayhem server, then we're not beholden to a 3rd party.
b, Auto resizing & upload. ( that will take care of the disk space issue )
c, Easy management, security & legal stuff.

... how hard can it be!   {-)

 Regards,
  Martin


 

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TheLongBuild

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #169 on: July 06, 2017, 01:11:52 PM »

Done by Lunch, time to finish the Bissy !!

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #170 on: July 06, 2017, 01:53:32 PM »

Everything is more complicated than it appears to the partially informed onlooker.  {:-{
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #171 on: July 06, 2017, 02:18:35 PM »

 
Looking at this s/w ....

Chevereto Free is an application which allows you to setup your own image sharing website and our goal is to allow anyone in the world to host their own image sharing platform. We believe in build a real alternative for those who want a customized white-label image sharing service.


    Admin panel
    Basic API
    Embed codes and sharing options
    File manager
    Flood protection
    Image resizing
    Multiple image upload
    Multiple languages available
    Private mode (password protected website)
    Small footprint
    Support for short url services
    Themes
    Watermarks
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tsenecal

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #172 on: July 06, 2017, 02:40:19 PM »

At the moment, you can only post photos into posts.
 





would that need to change?  I understand the magnitude of the photobucket failure, but modelboatmayhem should not try to be a replacement photobucket, photos uploaded to modelboatmayhem only can sit here if they belong to a post here.  I agree that allowing anyone to simply upload an image is rife with possible problems.. I understand that not everyone will agree with this, since basically photobucket etal allowed you to post pictures once, and share them everywhere, but lets face it, that seems to be one feature you should not allow...   basically if you want to post to dozens of model boat sites, and do it for free, you will have to post everywhere.  if you want to post to dozens of model boat sites, and upload photos once, you will have to find a reputable free sharing/hosting site, or pay.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #173 on: July 06, 2017, 05:31:45 PM »






would that need to change?  I understand the magnitude of the photobucket failure, but modelboatmayhem should not try to be a replacement photobucket, photos uploaded to modelboatmayhem only can sit here if they belong to a post here.  I agree that allowing anyone to simply upload an image is rife with possible problems.. I understand that not everyone will agree with this, since basically photobucket etal allowed you to post pictures once, and share them everywhere, but lets face it, that seems to be one feature you should not allow...   basically if you want to post to dozens of model boat sites, and do it for free, you will have to post everywhere.  if you want to post to dozens of model boat sites, and upload photos once, you will have to find a reputable free sharing/hosting site, or pay.


I agree totally.


Martin
I suspect that exactly what Chevereto is offering is going to go straight over the heads of most of us.
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Re: Photobucket - your photos held to ransom
« Reply #174 on: July 06, 2017, 05:53:29 PM »


Looking at this s/w ....

Chevereto Free is an application which allows you to setup your own image sharing website and our goal is to allow anyone in the world to host their own image sharing platform. We believe in build a real alternative for those who want a customized white-label image sharing service.


    Admin panel
    Basic API
    Embed codes and sharing options
    File manager
    Flood protection
    Image resizing
    Multiple image upload
    Multiple languages available
    Private mode (password protected website)
    Small footprint
    Support for short url services
    Themes
    Watermarks


 But will it always be there and will it always be free . Web services seem more transient than a government minister .
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