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Author Topic: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD  (Read 7745 times)

nemesis

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2017, 08:04:20 pm »

Very good, enjoyed the build so far and the troubles and tribulations of scratch building. One thing missing and has not been mentioned is the weight of the completed vessel. Are you taking up body building? regards,nemesis
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F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2017, 05:12:14 pm »

The longer 40mm bolts arrived earlier and I decided to test fit once again. All seems well.








Work can now begin on forming the actual rear deck rails. Certainly, the uprights have to be made from 10mm dia. brass tube. The horizontal rail may be solid.


The internal bore of the tubing was around 5mm. This was increased to 6.5mm on the lathe.





The end which will sit on the securing nut was faced level.





The final height of the rail is yet to be decided and the parts will be machined to length later.





The parts simply slip over the nuts, but with a solid fit.





The rail will be assembled on the tug to ensure it actually fits.





In other news, I've been looking for a seal which fits the grove in the rear deck hatch for quite some time. What's available is either too big, too small, too high, too low. I gave up and ended up getting some 'd' section from eBay. Height wise it sits high enough that it is compressed when the hatch is screwed down. I'll keep looking for another seal and see how this one does.


I can't envisage the rear deck being swamped with water, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.





The outside seal is continuous and joined at the mid point of the deck where water should be at its least. The internal seal has been cut into 4 sections and overlapped.





The two pieces of wood which the hatch securing bolts are mounted, have been epoxied to the underside of the deck and are currently curing.


I have also had 1000 wooden coffee stirrers delivered and some of these will become the deck hatch surface. It will of course be stained and weathered later. I will also start work on the deck rail.

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hammer

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 05:41:06 pm »

I just ask my friends to get me a few stick.
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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2017, 01:16:55 am »

Hi Dan,


There was a write up a few years ago regarding seal's.
I'm sure it was part of the upscope information.
I believe it was Rtv silicone 2 parts poored into a preshaped mould.


Can't remember the year of the Article though, sorry.
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derekwarner

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2017, 02:52:33 am »

Dan....I think you are on the right track in installing a hollow section neoprene tube. Certainly a solid O-Ring section even of 70 Duro would be difficult to compress

You could consider cluing the joint for the inner tube, then re position or move the joint close to the nearest hull stud....so compression is easily attained

Derek
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F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2017, 12:04:39 pm »

Hi Derek,


The issue is, the seal wont bend correctly round the tight inner corner. It barely bends round the larger outer corners. I will have a play. I'm not 100% happy with it.


I dug out the old CAD drawings for my homemade winches. I ordered some 6mm internal dia. push fit bearings which have an outside dia. of 10mm.


I will make the main shaft from my 10mm brass rod which will be turned down to 8mm. The ends which have contact with the bearings and the pulley will be 6mm there abouts.





The sidewalls of the winch will be a put fit of sorts but mainly held by solder or brazing.





There will be a 1mm gap between the sidewall and the framework of the winch which secures it to the deck.





I've just been turning one of the shafts in order to gauge how much over size I need the shaft in order for the bearing to be a secure fit. The same push fit will secure the shaft and bearing to the winch frame.


The issue is, the lathe is simply not accurate enough. I take what feels like micron passes and then suddenly, one minute its way to tight and then the next its under size.








Am I going overkill here by installing bearings? Or will simply shoving the shaft through without a bearing be enough? so its essentially brass on brass?



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Brian60

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2017, 12:21:22 pm »

Use the lathe to bring it down to overtight, then instead of using the lathe tool, a strip of fine emery paper looped around the shaft with the lathe turning. Essentially you are polishing the shaft with the paper rather than removing lots of material. Do this until the bearing fits.

As an example I had some 4mm brass shaft that wouldn't insert in a 4mm bearing. I put the length of shaft in my drill press and used the same method as above, 2-3 minutes of sanding try a fit, another minute or so, try a fit until it goes on.

F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2017, 12:24:27 pm »

Its just annoying wasting 120mm of brass rod a time. It will come in useful for something I suppose.


I'm trying to increase my skill set but doing all of this stuff. Until last Thursday, I'd never used a lathe in my life.


I'll try the emery paper technique. I did actually use this when perfecting the fit between the rear deck rail uprights and the hatch securing nuts.


Dan
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Brian60

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2017, 02:11:45 pm »

I don't know what type of lather you have, but unless its one of those cheap plastic ones that seem to be swamping the market at the moment, then it is possible to 'polish' the surface with a lathe tool rather than using emery paper. The reason for saying this about the plastic types is that there is too much play in the cross slide of them, measurable with feeler gauges, play where there should be none.

F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2017, 03:00:19 pm »

Brian,


This is the lathe I have.


Technically is a Sieg C1m however this is the axminster mk1 version










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Mark T

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2017, 03:12:30 pm »

Hi Dan if you machine the tolerance just a bit too small by accident try fixing the bearings with Loctite Bearing Seal.  For you application I think that this would be fine and it would save throwing expensive brass away.  Its designed for components that occasionally need to be taken apart too.

F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2017, 03:13:12 pm »

Not done an awful lot this week, instead I nuked my gaming PC in order to install P3D V4 (flight sim software) and had friends over.


I decided to start detailing the rear deck hatch. As mentioned I am using 5mm wide wooden stirrers. These were sport glued to some paper which had guides drawn on to keep everything straight.


The two horizontal lines are where the glue is located.





The assembly was then cut to size with a sharp knife.





The paper on which the sticks sit was then sliced away so all that remains is essentially two 10mm bands of paper which hold the assembly together. This will ensure maximum adhesion when they are glued to the deck hatch.


I also added some 20mm by 20mm by 1.5mm styrene sheetto tidy up the holes and provide a more firm surface for the securing nuts to tighten onto.








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F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2017, 03:15:03 pm »

Hi Dan if you machine the tolerance just a bit too small by accident try fixing the bearings with Loctite Bearing Seal.  For you application I think that this would be fine and it would save throwing expensive brass away.  Its designed for components that occasionally need to be taken apart too.


Yes I did think of doing that Mark. I was going to try and make it as snug as possible but leave the securing to some form of adhesive. I'll have a play around when I order the brass sheet.


Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2017, 03:27:46 pm »

Not much done on the build over the last 2 weeks other than gluing the deck boards down and machining the deck rail uprights to length.








The are all perfectly level with each other and the both sides of the bulwarks.





Not a lot will be done this week as I'm away. However I plan to order some 12mm dia brass rod for the horizontal element of the rails. I will machine a groove in each upright location and solder/braise them together. 
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F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2017, 01:35:24 pm »

Hit a bit of a stumbling block with the build.


I have been practising silver soldering as I am now at a stage where the rear deck rails need to be joined to the vertical uprights.


I'm using the easy-flo flux in both paste format and dipping the warmed rod into the tub. I'm also using the silver-flo 55 1.5mm rods.


All surfaces we cleaned and fluxed and heat applied with my blowtorch using mapp gas.


The solder just seems to ball up and refuses to flow.








Don't understand whats going wrong, I used to be able to do this. I was however using thinner stock which heated up to the point it was glowing...


Help?
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Bpue

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 04:22:33 pm »

Not enough heat - work needs to be glowing red for silver solder to flow. But don't apply too much heat as brass has a relatively low melting point. Put a scrap of silver solder on joint to be heated, which will 'flash' when up to temperature and then feed in more solder to joint. Put plenty of flux on joint prior to heating. Dont mix flux too runny - thick cream consistency. Use a citric acid (obtainable from homebrew suppliers ) as a pickle to clean flux residue off after letting job cool. Rinse in clean water and use a brass suede shoe brush to clean job up.
Try to silver solder on a firebrick , you will loose a lot of heat with that set up of machine vice and clamp. If possible temporary screw together. 
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Stavros

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2017, 07:19:48 pm »

If you are using a butane torch then Ive been there had the tee shirt....I now use a propane torch and the solder simply flows.


Dave
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derekwarner

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2017, 01:49:42 am »

Dan.....I remember viewing the build sequence for the deck supports and the method of securing the verticals from below...& yes it will be a very robust assembly when completed

However without building a flat soldering jig of exact hull drillings spacing, the final placement of the verticals cannot be guaranteed to fit the hull drillings

One alternative to this could be to provide a uniform curved [concaved] 6mm radius to the top of each of the verticals, lay the 12 mm diameter horizontal member & soft solder on site

The advantages are easier construction [you may need to use a wet sponge or kitchen at deck level around each vertical during soldering], this will ensure the alignment & if tour hands are small enough.. %) you could still unscrew & remove the assembly for painting

Soft solder is acknowledged as having far less mechanical strength, however you are using substantial sized sections [6 x 12] so this issue is negated & your Butane torch  :-)) will provide ample heat

Is there any need to use 12 mm diameter solid bar for the horizontal?...... as 12 mm diameter K&S brass telescopic tube would be more than adequate

Last but not least, you could consider inverting the hull O0 for the 12 mm diameter rail down hill soldering process

Derek 
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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2017, 08:52:56 am »

Propane burns hotter than the butane, that may be the problem, your pieces are taking too long to get to temperature and it is burning off the flux leaving the pieces 'dirty' I've even had this using Dereks soft soldering technique with a small butane torch. The flux blackens and nothing will stick to it. Soft soldering I went back to a big electric iron rather than the butane torch and everything was hunky dory -  this won't work for silver soldering though.

Can I go back to your wooden decking? The planking would benefit greatly from a cabinet scraper. Or use a Stanley type blade held at an angle, draw it carefully over the surface. It will level all the planks and remove any non uniformity.

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2017, 02:39:08 pm »

Hit a bit of a stumbling block with the build.


I have been practising silver soldering as I am now at a stage where the rear deck rails need to be joined to the vertical uprights.


I'm using the easy-flo flux in both paste format and dipping the warmed rod into the tub. I'm also using the silver-flo 55 1.5mm rods.


All surfaces we cleaned and fluxed and heat applied with my blowtorch using mapp gas.


The solder just seems to ball up and refuses to flow.








Don't understand whats going wrong, I used to be able to do this. I was however using thinner stock which heated up to the point it was glowing...


Help?
Dan the reason you are having problems with your soldering are the clamps and vice. they will be taking all the heat away from the pieces you are trying to solder, it will never work. I use a Vermiculite block to solder on     


Brian

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2017, 02:47:21 pm »

You have heatsinks everywhere.
That's the problem.


Ned
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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2017, 07:24:11 pm »

As Ned said, you are using one giant efficient heat sink, carries all the heat away from the joint. lay the items down on a peice of wood, and use pins/nails to hold the job in place. Good luck
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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2017, 10:26:32 am »

Thanks for the tips.


As for the lineup accuracy etc, my ideal solution was going to be to secure one upright at a time with a very tiny amount of superglue and then transport the assembly for soldering.


The flux just doesn't have the lifespan without turning all hard and crusty..


Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2017, 11:37:47 am »

The 12mm top rails were notched on the mill to accept the 10mm uprights.








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T33cno

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Re: Mobile Marine Models FT-X - BUILD
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2017, 08:48:19 pm »

How you getting on with this? missing your updates  O0
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