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Author Topic: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up  (Read 3171 times)

terry1956

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help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« on: July 12, 2017, 04:23:30 PM »


hi chaps. I am running into a lot of errors trying to sort out my submarine. I have a f14 navy transmitter and receiver fitted. this is what is happening. when I 1turn off the power to the transmitter the motors just go mad know matter what position the sticks are in and this is with the receiver turned off. if I switch the transmitter on the motors will stop. this is with the submarine case and inner sheet open.
can anyone please give me some idea what is going on and how to stop it. thanks. michael
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2017, 05:00:40 PM »

hi again for got to ask. with the F14 navy I have only 4 channels working. do I need to purchased  some extra part to get the other channels working and fi so what. and do I need a further receiver or can I keep using the one that came with the F14 navy transmitter. thanks again. michael
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microgyros

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 05:52:20 PM »


hi chaps. I am running into a lot of errors trying to sort out my submarine. I have a f14 navy transmitter and receiver fitted. this is what is happening. when I 1turn off the power to the transmitter the motors just go mad know matter what position the sticks are in and this is with the receiver turned off. if I switch the transmitter on the motors will stop. this is with the submarine case and inner sheet open.
can anyone please give me some idea what is going on and how to stop it. thanks. michael
Suggest a move to the submarine section http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,89.0.html and it doesn't look like a transmitter problem
What receiver and escs and what do the servos do?
What supply voltage to escs?
Do you have a dedicated receiver battery?
The Futaba FP-R118F shouldn't have a failsafe and not cause unexpected problems.
Is it a Corona receiver (or one with a failsafe) and how did you turn the receiver off?
No power to the receiver means no pulses transmitted to escs or servos on the white (PPM) wires at which point servos and decent escs should stop.
What channels on the receiver do you use?   You indicate only four (or five) on the transmitter so far.
Do you have on-board signal and voltage diagnostics? I put them on sub accessories to help when you have issues like these. Experienced builders use voltage bargraph indicators


hi again for got to ask. with the F14 navy I have only 4 channels working. do I need to purchased  some extra part to get the other channels working and fi so what. and do I need a further receiver or can I keep using the one that came with the F14 navy transmitter. thanks again. Michael

Corona 8-channel receiver will work but Futaba receivers are ultra reliable.
If you can't make your own transmitter parts for channels 5 onwards then decide what you need, look at the price and consider a second hand 6-channel Futaba transmitter.
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 07:58:09 PM »


hi. the transmitter is the F14 navy which at the moment is only able to use 4  channels. the receiver is the  R168DF Receiver . I am using channels 1 to 4. channel 1 and 2 for the rudder and rear diving planes channel 3 for forward plane and 4 for the motors, I also have a further servo within the sub and I have know idea what it does. the receiver as its own battery pack and the motors run of a larger battery,
There are know volt diagnostics at all. the receiver can be switched on and off by switch between it and the battery pack. there is know switch for the main battery 
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 11:20:05 PM »

hi, when you say speedo do you mean the speed controller ???? and what is BEC ??? i have purchased two books on radio control subs but both are next to useless and I am new to all this.
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chas

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 11:28:13 PM »

If I've read this correctly, the model misbehaves when the transmitter is off. It will. The golden rule, repeated on this forum many times is tx on, receiver on. Rx off tx off. Without a signal the receiver misinterprets any signal or radio noise as an instruction and goes crazy. This is especially true with  the 40  and 27 MHz bands needed by a submarine.
 Or have I misunderstood the question?
Chas
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chas

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 12:10:06 AM »

Terry, before you start changing any connections and wiring, tell us more about the model, you seem to be new at this, and I'm concerned that we might confuse you and over complicate things. Is the model built by you or someone else? Have you any experience with models and radio gear? Do you know if it has been working properly in the past?
   If you are new to sub's, no problem, things can be worked through one step at a time. Don't do anything rash until we understand correctly what the issues are, and don't be put off by jargon, every hobby has it. Very importantly, is there a club near you? Meeting fellow modelers is invaluable and fun, seemingly complicated problems become simple.
Chas.

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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 07:35:28 AM »

Quick suggestion here..You say the receiver has its own battery pack. Unplug it completely from the receiver and see if the model can still be operated by your radio. If so, you have a BEC fitted through your speed control. That is a Battery Eliminator Circuit, which drops your main battery voltage down to about 5v and feeds that to your receiver via the speed controllers own three lead cable running back into the receiver. If this happens, look for some sort of on/off switch coming off of the speed control..this will turn the model on and off.
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 12:07:05 PM »


Thanks for helping out chaps. yes I am brand new to all this. ok I took off the receiver battery and yes I have control of the motors and rudder, rear planes so that makes the 4 channels that the transmitter will allow. these all now work with know on at all. so that's good. now I need two more channels one for the front planes and one for the trim. how do I get these from the new F14 navy ???????
also I did not build  the model. Its a sheerline u boat and was build my a nice gentleman  who fought in the navy fighting these same u boats.   
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microgyros

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 02:00:32 PM »


I think you got a solution quicker because this was moved to the submarine board.


You'll also get more feedback about Futaba F14 accessories in the radio section. Frattons in Portsmouth is a Futaba dealer and with submarine building experience. I'm sure the 3 position switch would suffice for ballast if that is what you mean by trim.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 04:25:26 PM »

Get a pair of proportional sliders which fit under the two blanking plates between the transmitter sticks. They have a positive notch which indicates when you are in the centre position, good for both a three position pump control, and your front hydroplanes. The part number for the F14 compatible sliders is P-TFRT1601 and they come in at 14.99 each. As the nice man says, give Fratton Model Centre a ring on 02392 827117, I would normally be there but am enjoying a few days off for good behaviour.  We have the Ripmax rep coming in tomorrow (Friday) PM and they can be ordered for next week if you wish.
I have tried to find the two and three position switches but am struggling a bit to find the part numbers. There is an easy way to make your own, but that involves soldering irons inside radio control units, I shall not be going there today!
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tsenecal

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 09:35:31 PM »

i found a 3 position switch for the f14...  P-TFRT1600   for modern, and P-TFRT1500 for "old" f14...   can't say that i have a clue what separates a "new" from an "old" f14
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microgyros

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 11:41:04 PM »


i found a 3 position switch for the f14...  P-TFRT1600   for modern, and P-TFRT1500 for "old" f14...   can't say that i have a clue what separates a "new" from an "old" f14
...one more channel, four quid saving and less reliance on Philips when they replaced the 7-channel NE5044 encoder with a processor.


For self-taught electronically minded cheapskates, a Y-Delta conversion link and below is the input resistor-capacitor network to each of the 7 inputs of the older F14 encoder chip.
Two position switches must be the break-before-make (BBM) with gold plated contacts. You can't directly connect that or the 3-position (centre off) type without a further 150kΩ series resistance. A shorting jumper from any of the centre pins (row 2) to 0volt (row 3) would suppress that and any further channel by taking the input voltage below a threshold RANGE preset on pin12 . 
 The sliders also required resistors because they are travelling the full range and not the middle 1/3 as in servo or gimbal pots.



... F14 compatible sliders is P-TFRT1601 and they come in at 14.99 each...
Robbe slide controls circa 1990 were 22. Plugged into an online inflation calculator converts to about fifty worthless 2017 pounds. I bet the shop didn't sell many in those days. :D
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2017, 08:36:15 AM »

'Self taught, electronically minded cheapskates...' You have been looking at my passport haven't you?!


Seriously, interesting. We have, on occasion, directly connected switches to those pins mentioned, however we usually use resistors or variable pots to provide some sort of adjustable output. Being self taught AND cheapskates, we usually only stop prodding around in sets when smoke comes out, this being our Go/No Go default setting..


Must be a bit more cautious in future :-))
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2017, 01:36:46 PM »


hi chaps thanks for input. today the postman turned up with the robbi 12+2 multi switch prop and the 12+2 memory unit complete with a set of instructions which have left me pulling out the little hair I have. Can anyone please let me know how these two units wire into the F14 transmitter. I understand that I now need to also purchase a 2nd battery pack to run these units and I am thinking that its all becoming a bit of a rip off.
hope someone can help out there. michael
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C-3PO

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2017, 02:25:19 PM »

Terry - from memory ( hope I recall it correctly)

The Switch module on the TX does not need power it connects to the main board ( more later)

The Multi-Switch-Prop 12+2 Decoder itself gets power from the lead that's attached to it that you plug into the RX.

However the additional switched/proportional outputs can draw quite a bit of power hence another battery is required.

I seem to think that it will depend on what version of the F14 you have as to where you plug the 12+2 multi switch pro mutli prop in on the transmitter board - on some there are 2 special sockets and some you use the actual channels - probably Ch7 or Ch8

Is your F14 new production or old kit? - might make sense to establish that before going further

I hope I am not confusing any of this with the FC16....

See this link - http://www.rc-modellbau-schiffe.de/wbb2/index.php?thread/21908-multi-prop-decoder-modul-hilfe/
I hope I am not confusing any of this with the FC16....


NB make sure your board looks like this one - same number of sockets - same printed legends - if not don't use any of the info below

This picture has 2 additional switch boards installed

Blue arrows (yellow cables) - are the outputs from the 12+2 board ( note 2 boards installed in this picture)
Red arrow - plug 12+2 board one into this socket
Black arrow - if you have installed 2 boards - plug the second extension switch board into the first as shown

Regards
C-3PO
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2017, 03:10:47 PM »

Hi.my transmitter is a new f14 navy . Looks a bit different from your f16 inside. Will take a longer look tonight and try to figure it out.thanks michael
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C-3PO

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2017, 03:15:00 PM »

Terry,

If you get stuck -  post a picture of it on here or email me the image and I will point you in the right direction - email control@radiocontrolcommand.co.uk

Regards
C-3PO
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terry1956

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2017, 08:24:52 PM »

hi. here are some pictures. I think that I have fitted the switch card right. but what to do with the memory unit. any ideas. michael
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C-3PO

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2017, 09:50:00 PM »

Terry,

I will check the documentation I have and update this thread later tomorrow

Basically the F14 is an 8 channel transmitter. The switch unit you plugged into the TX (yellow cable) takes one of those channels (normally Ch 7 or Ch8) and splits the one channel into the additional channels) ( the additional channel states are sent serially one after the other all down one of the transmitters channels)

The memory unit is plugged into CH 7 or CH8 of the receiver ( depends which socket you plug the yellow cable into from the switch unit in the TX), has it's own battery power supply and then you can plug in servo's / siwtch things on and off from the additional pin outs on the memory unit.

Then when you twiddle the pots / flick the switches on the add in switch panel the outputs on the memory decoder unit do their thing...

The switch/pots correspond to the memory unit numbers as per this diagram

E.G. K7 & K8 on the memory unit correspond to the 2 pots on the TX



Regards
C-3PO
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C-3PO

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Re: help needed re transmitter and submarine playing up
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2017, 10:46:13 PM »

Terry,  Or should it be Michael? - should read the posts better - sorry :)

Just thought I might save you going nuts. - I would test the upgrade using a spare servo connected to memory decoder K8 and use the bottom left hand pot on the TX switch unit to control it.

There is a mapping of TX Multi In 1,2&3 to channel 6,7,8 RX - I can't for the life of me remember what the mapping is

I think its - Mutli In Pin 1 = Channel 8 on RX ( ie plug in the Memory Decoder into CH 8 on the receiver)

So it either Multi In maps to RX Pin ( which pin you plug the decoder into)

Multi In      RX Channel 
1   >>>      8
2   >>>      7
3  >>>       6

Or
Multi In      RX Channel 
1   >>>      6
2   >>>      7
3  >>>       8


Once you have the servo working - I can shed light on how the switches work - got a few grey hairs working this one out several months back....
C-3PO
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