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Author Topic: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )  (Read 17614 times)

Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #150 on: August 15, 2017, 10:17:02 AM »

Cheers Jan.  :-))
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #151 on: August 15, 2017, 10:58:05 AM »

How's about these water pickup units fitted flush on bottom ??
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #152 on: August 15, 2017, 11:50:59 AM »

Hi Grant,

The idea is similar to my pressureless system, but (big but!), there is a 90 angle from the intake to the brass hose connection on top and the transition into that brass piece isn't smooth.
As the silicon tubing will point up, there's a height that needs to be overcome by the water pressure before it'll fill the system.
Having a second one pointing the other way to create suction will help, but keeping the tubing low in the hull works better, see the attached picture.

As a side note: you'll be restricted in where the inlet and outlet will fit in the hull due to the tubes sticking up, also using long silicon tubes will create massive drag, to the point where's there no flow unless you run full throttle to fill the system.
As the inlet and outlet will be right of the center line, there won't be much of a room issue, but the drag due to the height and length of the silicon tubing remains.
I'm using internally smooth aluminium tubing for a reason...

It's the easy way out for people who don't want to make the effort to fill a 4 mm thin walled aluminium tube with sand or salt, close off both ends and gently bend it around an circular object of the desired diameter.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #153 on: August 15, 2017, 12:05:06 PM »

I See what you mean, I've got a pipe bender for brake lines which will do a nice tight curl. I note that the esc needs a cooling line and the motor needs one as well do I run both of 1 line or would it be better for 2 separate.


With regards to the flood chamber I've a chunk of polystyrene which I'll shape so 1 of the batteries can sit left of central into the flood chamber and the other maybe same distance on right or would there be a better place to fit them, as I see from your boat the inset of the foam for a battery to sit?.
Grant
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #154 on: August 15, 2017, 01:34:04 PM »

Hi Grant,

I don't quite understand your intentions with the Styrofoam.
The foam in my pictures was covered with glasscloth and epoxy resin, once the epoxy had cured (fully!), the foam was mechanically removed, forming the floodchamber in a polyester hull.

As you're building in wood, I'd use that for the floodchamber too.

Could you post a picture of your build taken from above, not an an angle?
I can use that picture to draw in my ideas on the layout, as pictures work better than words...

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #155 on: August 15, 2017, 02:19:11 PM »

The left hand side is cut way on the frame the rear I'll cut after I've decided how big it's going to be.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #156 on: August 15, 2017, 03:08:55 PM »

Finally got one that fits the guidelines
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #157 on: August 15, 2017, 05:06:42 PM »

Hi Grant,

Almost...
Could you give it another go?
This time with the camera over the center of the boat, not from any angle.

I tried to draw on the first picture, but from this angle it's hard to estimate the correct proportions of all components.

Regards, Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #158 on: August 15, 2017, 05:17:08 PM »

Try these, that's great I can see where everything should go for the best outcome. Thank you
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #159 on: August 17, 2017, 07:57:08 PM »

Hi Grant,

I did the drawing on your latest picture showing where the components could live, mind you, 'could', as it's up to you to determen their exact position in the hull by marking the Cog on the hull (28-32% of the hull length measured from the transom forward, in case of a 900 mm hull that would be between 288 and 252 mm) and shifting motor and Lip's around to get everything balanced, keeping in mind the rudder assembly and the servo will shift the balance further to the rear.

I had to guess the position of the floodchamber wall, as I can't calculate that, based on your estimates.

Work with the dimensions of the lip's and see how far the floodchamber wall can protrude into the hull towards the center line; the further, the better, as it'll shift the volume more to the rear, due to the fact you'll be able to move the front of the floodchamber towards the rear (say from frame 4 to five) while keeping an eye on the volume you calculated.

Do I still make sense...?

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #160 on: August 18, 2017, 12:29:03 AM »

Cheers Jan, for that all I need now is to know what drive shaft, rudder,fin and prop to get.? Weve got so far,
4082-1450 motor
2 x 3s 6000mah hrb lipo
Flycolor 150 amp
Savox servo.


Thanks for all the help Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #161 on: August 18, 2017, 11:26:20 AM »

We've got so far,
4082-1450 motor
2 x 3s 6000mah hrb lipo
Flycolor 150 amp
Savox servo.
Hi Grant,

When you say: "We've got so far", do you mean you've got those items in front of you, or just on your shopping list?
Reason I ask, is that I share the torque concern with Martin regarding the Turnigy 4082-1450Kv car motor.
Please, don't be guided too much by the price, get a proper motor like the TFL SSS series.

I also think 1450Kv is on the low side of the spectrum for 6S; you'll have between 27000 and 28000 rpm under load, which requires a fairly large prop to get a quick boat.
Large props generate a lot of proptorque and propwalk issues, which on a boat this size can cause it to get undrivable very rapidly.
Personally I'd go for the motor I mentioned earlier, the SSS 4082-1800Kv:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html?switch_country=GB&products_id=1110
This one has the torque and the price is a nice compromise, compared to a high end motor like the Plettenberg HP 220BM/50/A3 S P4 (1810Kv), which would set you back 335,00...

Knowing what type of drivetrain you're going for helps making suggestions for what to get.
Either a long wiredrive, with the motor up front as in my sketch, or a flexshaft, which allows the motor to sit closer to the transom.

Both options have consequenses for the position of motor and Lipo's, so you'll have to play with those weights inside the empty hull to know what should go where in order to get the GoG right and have a functioning floodchamber.

A powertrim like this one allows the use of a flex shaft as well as a wire drive:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Power-Trimm/Power--Trimm--4-75-mm--77-mm.html
Preferably with a wet well for easy adjustment of the propshaft angle.

Found another Wasabi video, not sure what size the boat is, most likely similar to yours.
To give you an idea what to expect, when motorized properly.
Disregard the poor driving, I see that a lot in Russian video's...
https://youtu.be/A9s_0NJHaNY

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #162 on: August 18, 2017, 12:52:33 PM »

The motor is the thing I've not purchased yet, I've seen some leopard motors with a bigger kv even a 4092 ,  if I go with the sss  version you have recommended what drive shaft and prop to get along with prop holder.
I've looked for wire drive but not sure what you mean would a flex drive not suffice as I've seen loads of them. Now the brass tube and Teflon inner thing is there any I should not go with etc.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #163 on: August 18, 2017, 01:09:28 PM »

The sss motor that is 4082- 1750 would a 2000kv version be ok or is that too high? I've also found a 4092-1650kv perhaps this one??
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #164 on: August 18, 2017, 03:24:46 PM »

Hi Grant,

A 1800Kv motor on 6S will give you close to 34000 rpm under load, this is already considered a hot setup.
If you go for a 2000Kv motor, that would be close to 38000 rpm under load, this is SAW territory, fast straight runs on flat water, don't expect to be able to make a narrow turn at speed without a violent flip.
This is a video of the same boat; the pilot has no clue how to run a fast electric (keep making left turns when you can hear the single prop boat doesn't like it and wants to spin out), the last part is slightly less moronic and, the boat stays the right side up in these flat conditions:
https://youtu.be/BtJy3c6pi28

If you want to go for even more torque with a 4092-1650kv (link?) check if your ESC will handle that.

The choice for a wire drive or a flexshaft is yours; a flexshaft needs to be taken out after every day of running, cleaned, dried and stored until the next run, than it has to be greased and put back into the boat.
A wire drive only needs a yearly re-lube and a drop of oil on the bushings, prior to every run.

The powertrim I linked to earlier can be fitted out with this solid endpiece:
http://HTTP://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/va-endstueck-90mm-x-4-75-mm-federwelle.html
Notice the options on the right: 4mm, 2mm and 2,5 mm spring steel shaft.
Or the flex shaft version:
http://HTTP://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/4-75-mm-Endstueck-mit-4-75-mm-Flexwelle--re--hg.html

It all boils down to which configuration you go for, regarding the position of the heavy components in the hull.

Regards, Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #166 on: August 18, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »

Hi Grant,

Sorry for that, the spell checker altered the link.

As you chose the 4,75 mm power trim, I'd take this flexshaft (make sure you know which length to order):
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/4-75-mm-Endstueck-mit-4-75-mm-Flexwelle--re--hg.html
A coupler would be nice, I'd take the three vart version:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Kupplungen/fuer-4-75-mm-Flexwelle/Spannzange--Zentrierkupplung-5-mm---4-75-mm---3-Teigig--.html

You'll also need a brass tube (with teflon liner) between the transom and the motor with support for the brass tubing.

Consider a wet well for ease of angle adjustment.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #167 on: August 18, 2017, 05:50:35 PM »

Cheers.
What is a wet well?
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #168 on: August 18, 2017, 07:08:59 PM »

Found this on the eBay is this like taking a gun to a knife fight or does just fit what's needed.

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #169 on: August 18, 2017, 07:09:48 PM »

Hi Grant,

A wet well is basically a hole in the transom where the stuffing tube enters it, it's substantially larger than the stuffing tube with a rubber seal at the end inside the hull.
Look at the pictures in this link from post #71 onward.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2489368-New-Impulse-31-V3-goes-41-mph-on-4s/page5

A wet well allows you to adjust both height and angle of the propshaft when using a strut, like in the pictures.
With a power trim, the height is pretty much fixed (unless you elongate the holes where the mounting bolts go through) and only the angle can be adjusted.

As the height adjustment isn't as critical when you get the height of the exit through the transom right in the first place (which is easier to do in a DIY boatbuild than in a factory mass produced boat), being able to adjust the angle is sufficient in my opinion.

The wet well not only allows you to adjust the angle, but also makes the transition of the stuffing tube through the transom into the boat watertight.
A powertrim bolted onto the transom without a wet well is the cause of water ingress in many boats.

In all my boats I don't bother with adjustable propshafts, as I like to keep things simple, I use a solid shaft which I mount in the correct position and be done with it, never had any handling issues due to propshaft angle or height when dialing in my boats...
See pictures.

Regards, Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #170 on: August 18, 2017, 07:11:46 PM »

Found this on the eBay is this like taking a gun to a knife fight or does just fit what's needed.
Hi Grant,

Without telling us what you found, it's hard to know what you're talking about...

Regards, Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #171 on: August 18, 2017, 07:18:42 PM »

EBay item number 122432625249
Technology can't get photo to the size to fit on 300kb
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #172 on: August 18, 2017, 07:47:09 PM »

Hi Grant,

You can also copy the address from the top of the screen:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-16-4-76mm-Drive-Shaft-W-Length-and-Angle-Adjustable-Stinger-for-RC-Boat-1431-/122432625249?hash=item1c818d9a61
Having the length adjustable is a nice gadget, but nothing more, you'll never touch that feature again once you've put it at the desired position.
It's not like you're going to swap that stinger from one size (length) boat to another, adjusting the stinger length to the boat at hand...
You may aswell buy the correct length stinger / strut / powertrim right away, it's a lot cheaper.

On another note; will it fit on the Wasabi transom, as the base plate is about 35 mm high and you'll need room underneath as well?

But, it's your money...

Regards, Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #173 on: August 18, 2017, 07:52:05 PM »

Only a thought as it had tfl on it. Getting the stinger you recommended in a few posts ago, just building a shopping list for tfl site might aswell get it all together.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« Reply #174 on: August 19, 2017, 02:29:02 PM »

So we have got electrics
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html
Flycolor 150amp esc
And hardware
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Power-Trimm/Power--Trimm--4-75-mm--77-mm.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Ruder/Ruder-mittel-bis-130mm/Ruder-H--100-x-122-mm-mit-WaKue.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Motorhalter-Elektro/Karbon-BL--Motortraeger-fuer-4074.html
when I've got some cash look at this and see what else I require, I've got silicone tuning do I need a bigger tube to fit the brass tube into and what kind of propellor is required brass/plastic/aluminium pitch ???


I will be installing the flood chamber as diagram you sketched on in 1.5mm plywood coated in epoxy resin.


One thing I've wondered with the stinger and prop shaft needing to be certain measurement do I imagine the transom ends in a V shape and take the measurements from that point or do I go of the actual bottom at it has a flat bottom.??


Can you send me a link to see a wire drive cant seem to find one and if its same price or just slightly deaer i may go for that instead of flexishaft.







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