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Author Topic: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )  (Read 17729 times)

Gaci4

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Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
« on: July 23, 2017, 07:31:41 PM »

HI to everyone on here, I've now gotten to the stage where I'd like to build a speedboat, I've built everything else and am keen on build and rc , so I just need to know what running gear would be suitable for the wasabi 900e inside and outside. Any help with be much appreciated, I also plan on putting pictures of my build as I go along. Many thanks GrantGra

( Topic renamed )   :-)
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chas

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 11:25:12 PM »

Google is very helpful with this model, lots of stuff on there. Have a look and ask about ant specifics that aren't clear.

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canabus

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 07:11:57 AM »

Hi Gaci14
Link to an American website for fast boats.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/forum.php
Canabus
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2017, 10:18:13 AM »

Cheers for info already looked at those sites, I posted the question in the hope that people with more experience with relation to the size of the boat and what running equipment they have used? Is there an equation that works out the size of rudder, turn fins etc when the length of boat is 900mm
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2017, 11:31:39 AM »

Hi Gaci14,

How fast do you want it to be able to go and for how long?
Will you make it selfrighting by installing a floodchamber?
What is your budget?

Some of the things I'd like to know, before making suggestions.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 12:41:13 PM »

HI Jan, thanks for getting in touch, I will be making a flood chamber in it, about 30-40mph or maybe faster for as long as the batteries last I would get spare batteries yo continue having fun, it will be going on canal,river and sea. Budget is few hundred to start with. Thanks for help Jan.
Grant
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canabus

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 01:16:28 PM »

Hi Gaci14
I would make frames 3 and 5 solid as to have separate float chambers.
The extra weight would not be that much, better than a lost boat!!
Canabus
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 01:37:42 PM »

Was going to before I put top on fill the front end with polystyrene beads or expanding foam, is there a set of calculations you know of about centre of wait and length of rudder etc etc
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2017, 03:25:18 PM »

Hi Grant,

30 or 40 mph is peanuts for a hull this size, running it would be sooo boring...

The Wasabi 900 will run easily 50 - 60+ mph, depending on your choice of prop and motor.

I'd go for a 40 mm motor like this:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html
On 6S you'll have about 34000 rpm under load.
This is a hot set-up and will be a steep learning curve getting to grips with setting up and handling.

If you 'have to' spend more money, a TP 4060 1650Kv is also an option:
http://www.tppowereurope.com/Webwinkel-Product-49262371/TP4060.html

ESC: for the TFL 4082 1750 Kv you can get away with the Flycolor 150A:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat-Cool-W6O8/351783929159?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37182%26meid%3Df5c53221ce004825b4fd48353a282309%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772#shpCntId
Make sure to order the programming box with whatever ESC you order, it makes life so much easier.

For the TP4060, I'd go with this one:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-marine-180a-bec-waterproof-speed-controller-with-water-cooling.html

Lipo's: as you're going for a floodchamber, measure what will fit between the propshaft/motor and the floodchamber wall, as the lipo('s) will have to find their place on the floodchamber wall.

The reason for this is to shift the weight to the left at rest, so when the boat is upside down, the floodchamber will fill with water, making the boat flip back up again.
With the Lipo in the center of the hull, the floodchamber won't work, unless you attach ( a lot of) lead weights to the left rear side.

Depending on the position of the motor you can go for one 6S Lipo (= motor in the rear with the Lipo in front and to the left), or two 3S lipo's wired in series (= motor more forward with both lipo's on end against the floodchamber wall).

Let me know if you have more questions.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 04:25:16 PM »

That's brilliant Jan, the esc why such a large amp, is there a large load when under force from motor? I will search for reference for the flood chamber as not quite sure where the hole should go to let water in and then out, I thought that maybe a pipe in the bottom would create a vacuum to remove the water while running but the filling is a ? I will certainly be going for the bigger motor and esc. 
Do you know of any calculations to work out size of rudder and turn fins? As far as props go I researched a x442 octura  or x447 what do you think.
I also need to know flexible or solid drive shaft?
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 05:25:51 PM »

Hi Grant,

In fact both ESC's are on the modest side for the motors I linked to; the 100A of the 4082 is what the motor can handle continuously without lighting up...
Getting out of the hole and accelerating out of a turn, the motor will happily draw twice as much current for a few seconds, your ESC has to be able to handle that.
The TP4060 can handle twice the continuous current (200A!) and will also easily draw burst twice that, again, your ESC has to be able to handle that.

When the boat is running on the plane and is properly dialed in (no wet running = huge drag & ampdraw) but running on the last few inches of the hull, both motors and ESCs will easily handle the 900cm hull.

A 42 mm prop is too small to utilize the potential of the motors, but is a nice place to start, start small and work your way up. Keep in mind that larger props will generate more propwalk, something to consider when installing the drivetrain (off-center to the right to counteract propwalk, or not).

The Wasabi can by built with a flexshaft or a (long) solid shaft, both will work equally well, but a solid shaft needs to be installed correctly, as you'll have no adjustment possibilities like with a stinger or strut.

The lack of maintenance (other than a yearly relube) of a solid shaft is the reason all my fast electrics run solid shafts (2 mm wire drive with 4 mm endpiece to keep the mass down).
Installing a solid shaft right is no witchcraft...

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2017, 06:15:00 PM »

Cheers Jan, I've took all that in, I did read about putting the prop shaft slightly higher and to the right to stop walk. I'm just working out what plywood to order, our local timber merchant sells rubbish plywood so I'm looking online. Many thanks Jan for the advise
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 11:36:49 AM »

HI Jan, sorted plywood multiple layer instead of rubbish. On another boat forum somebody wrote about an equal to the wasabi I would like you to read it and see if you agree as you've been the most helpful.


looking at the plans the rudder is 60mm deep and 13mm wide.
[/size]The turn fin is 35mm deep and 18mm wide.
[/size]Going on about the same size boat on the Hobbyking site.
[/size]The Ariane 2(930mm) has a 3660-2075kv(water cooled)brushless motor with a 125Ammp water cooled ESC running a 5000mah 4S Lipo battery.
[/size]No prop size given sadly.
[/size]Rudder servo 3KG+..
[/size]They have a good number of drive unit with flex drive cables.
[/size]With that powered motor I go 5mm flex drive.
[/size]Now I thought the rudder had to be a percentage of the total length and the same as the turn fins.?
[/size]Grant
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 05:03:31 PM »


1)looking at the plans the rudder is 60mm deep and 13mm wide.
2)The turn fin is 35mm deep and 18mm wide.
3)Going on about the same size boat on the Hobbyking site.
The Ariane 2(930mm) has a 3660-2075kv(water cooled)brushless motor with a 125Ammp water cooled ESC running a 5000mah 4S Lipo battery.
No prop size given sadly.
Rudder servo 3KG+..
They have a good number of drive unit with flex drive cables.
With that powered motor I go 5mm flex drive.
Now I thought the rudder had to be a percentage of the total length and the same as the turn fins.?
Grant
Hi Grant,

Which forum would that be, got a link?

By the numbers:
1) a rudder that short is for when you've dialed out all bad behaviour and you're ready for a bit less drag and a little more nervous behaviour. I'd start with a longer rudderblade.
Important is to have the rudderblad next to the prop, to further counteract propwalk (next to the offcenter driveline).
2) a turnfin only gets wet when the boat banks into a turn, finding out which shape works best (for you) is part of the dialing in process.

3) the Ariane (2) is a nice hull from TFL, the Hobbyking version comes badly undermotorized with (sub)standard hardware, delivered like this, it's aiming at the beginner who wants a stunning looking boat, but not the maximum performance.
Basically that's a good thing, as most people without any boating experience would reduce a high powered version to rubble in a matter of minutes.

In the comments on the HK site I found this: (my comments in red between brackets)

my best rc boat!
 -totally carbon reinforcing (no idea if he means adding carbon reinforments to the new hull, which is good, or talks about the stock carbon hull)
 -esc swordfish 220A 6S with datalogger (nice ESC)
 -motor TP power 4060 1380KV (a bit low for 6S, only 27000 rpm under load)
 -battery 2x 6S Bolt 5400 (most likely wired in parallel, wired in series would be insane, with over 50.000 rpm under load, very hard on the drivetrain)
 -total jeti telemetry (nice if you know what too look for/at)
 Results 120km/h gps mesured. (nothing to sneeze at, very good for a hull this size)
 little 106km/h video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRBLOhQMzD4
 second: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rROeoJQxqQ

As you can see a similar set-up as I suggested.
Too bad the weight of the camera on the nose hasn't been compensated with weight in the rear, so despite the tons of power, the boat runs crap (too wet) and can't be run full throttle without it getting very unstable, rookie mistake.

Understand that in spite of the carbon hull of the version 2, it still needs beefing up if you're going to install a lot more power, as the bottom section will flex under load, reeking havoc on the running attitude.
A couple of carbon rods, glassed in the hull, reinforcing the large unsupported flat parts of the rear of the hull is probably sufficient.

Paul (785boater) on the RCG forum has built up the glass version and he reinforces most of his hulls in this way.

Depending on how the hull is built, personally I always add a layer of glasscloth and epoxy inside a bare hull to avoid gelcoat cracking on cheaply built Chinese hulls.

Regards, Jan.
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pompebled

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Re: floodchamber
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 05:25:19 PM »

I will search for reference for the flood chamber as not quite sure where the hole should go to let water in and then out, I thought that maybe a pipe in the bottom would create a vacuum to remove the water while running but the filling is a ?
Hi Grant,

I overlooked your question regarding the functioning of a floodchamber.
A floodchamber is nothing more than a section on the left side of the hull closed off from the rest of the interior of the boat.
In the transom there's a hole, usually the size of the floodchamber width, to allow the water to rush out when you hit the throttle.

When flipped, the water enters the floodchamber through the hole in the transom and slits in the top.

I added two pictures of the smaller (800mm) Arowana, with a topview of how the heavy goodies inside are all on the left, you can also see the size of the floodchamber holding 2,5L, still needed some lead to make the boat flip back up reliable.

The row of airing slits can be seen in the purple section on the highest point.

The other is the transom, looking into the floodchamber.

Let me know if you have more questions or need more pictures.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2017, 05:45:17 PM »

That's great Jan, I can see how it works now, I assume that the front of the boat is filled with buoyancy material. I couldn't see the the slits you mentioned , I have seen a few videos on the Ariana on the first video on YouTube you quoted I see there is a hole on the right hand side of the boat is that to help water flood in if it goes over?
The quote I put in before was from modelboat.co.uk
If you've anymore photos of areas I need to pay attention to while on the build they would be thankfully received. Apart from internet and YouTube I'm starting this project blind and learning as I go.
Grant
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 06:00:22 PM »

Jan, I've also noticed your drive shaft hole is slightly of centre to the right ?.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2017, 09:03:11 PM »

Hi Grant,

My bad, I had to crop the pictures due to the size limits and took off the slits....

If you look at the floodchamber picture from the rear, imagine a series of slits in the highest part if the curved top.

In hindsight, the offset is too little, as I still experience propwalk with larger props.
At the moment the offset is 10 mm ( of the stuffing tube), If I were to build another single prop monohull  this size, (a Jetchopper30 is on the shelf, waiting to be kitted out) the offset would be 12-15 mm.

I don't have boyancy in the nose, my set-up is a bit weight sensitive and extra weight will bring the nodse down too far, making the hull run wet.
In fact, I don't have boyancy in any of my boats, they are built waterproof and due to the reinforcement, not likely to spring a leak...

Regards, Jan.
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2017, 11:29:00 AM »

Plywood has arrived, will be installing a flood chamber as i build, just thinking should I make a fibre glass mould for the bottom of the hull  or just fibre glass if inside and out before I fix the top on.any thoughts on it. Not bought any hardware yet, going to build boat first. Looking at   putting in a flood chamber and just in case a float chamber as said before in thread. 
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2017, 03:32:36 PM »

Hi Grant,

When you apply a layer of glasscloth and epoxy on the outside (before you glue on the strakes!) and only epoxy the inside (no glasscloth) so the wood is waterproofed, the hull will be light and strong, provided you use a good quality plywood (multiple layers and not paperthin).

HK sells suitable glasscloth:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fiber-cloth-500x1000mm-light-weight.html
Or: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fiber-cloth-500x1000mm-medium-weight.html

Hobbyking also sells epoxy, but I would get that locally in (at least) a half a liter package, as what HK sells are very small amounts, not enough for the interior and the outside of the hull.
If you get the 24h(!) epoxy resin locally, you could also get the glasscloth there, go for 160 gr/m Twill weave.

How heavy the glasscloth should be, depends on the plywood you're sheeting the bottom (and top) with.

My 110 cm M.A.S. is built out of cheap poplar ply 3,2 mm thick from the local building market, it is very light, which was important, as the M.A.S. is a stepped design, making the hull too heavy compromises the performance.

There is a build thread on this forum, but I'm in the process of putting in the pictures (again) which hasn't been done yet, here's a link to the RCG forum where you can see the pictures and two video's:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1551192-Motoscafo-Anti-Sommergibile&highlight=Motoscafo Anti Sommergibile
In post #2 are pictures on how I went about glassing this hull with its square angles, part of the way of applying the glasscloth, also applies on the Wasabi hull, in particular the transom, where the edges should remain sharp.

Something to keep in mind, before you put on the bottom sheeting, is to cut drain holes in the ribbing next to the floodchamber wall; that way there will be no water trapped behind those ribs when the floodchamber drains after a flip.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2017, 04:55:46 PM »

Hi Jan, I can't Thank you enough for how helpful you've been/being I appreciate it. I purchased as the plans state 6mm for the frames 3mm for some frame work and 2mm to cover it. All the plywood was birch ply on ply good quality a lot better than the builder merchant. I will be using epoxy may even colour the bottom of the hull using woven and possibly fine tissue make a nice smooth job of it. I will be making a float chamber between 3 and 5 just in case it all goes wrong and a flood chamber down the left side putting some slats in the top to aid flooding. May change the top shape but other than the modifications I will be copying the wasabi plans to the T. Can't wait to start buying electrics I assume everything is either waterproof or marine classification. I'll use my flysky transmitter got 3 channels so may add some lights  :-))
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2017, 05:41:04 PM »

Make sure you use very very light cloth to cover the hull or you will add too much weight.This is all you need to use its .25g,they also have epoxy,you need laminating epoxy resin . I build boats for a living, to be honest if the boats built right you don't really need any cloth on the outside . Just make sure you reinforce all the joints as you go .I used to run a zippkits hydro i built it was plywood construction and i only reinforced the joints inside then sealed outside with epoxy resin .She crashed a few times at over 60 mph and never more than a scratch .
If you really want to cover it then use this cloth it drapes well around shapes and should cover the bottom and sides in one piece no problem.Heres a few pics of one my son built for school project a few years back he covered it in cloth and epoxy as the plywood was cheap outdoor grade ply.Hull is a scaled down gas mono from free plans so easy to build much easier than the wasabi,if you havent started yours yet do a search for prowler mono plans its a great running boat and easy to build and doesnt need running strakes,adds too much lift just add spray rails on the chines as seen in the pics.
https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/product/glassfibre-cloth-25g-sq-mtr-1-mtr-wide
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2017, 05:47:07 PM »

Thank you martno1fan for that information I will check them out. Grant
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2017, 05:58:49 PM »

No worries mate ive been watching just kept quiet as Jan was giving you some good advice,but fiberglassing is what i do so figured id let you know about the cloth and where to get it along with resin etc.
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