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Author Topic: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat  (Read 2423 times)

douglas g

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Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« on: August 31, 2017, 10:59:05 AM »

I am currently working on a wooden-hulled model of the Sangsetia Malaysian police patrol boat PX11, based on the Dave Metcalfe plan and articles published in Model Boats in September-December 1986.

These articles and the website of Models by Design (who now market the GRP hull version of Sangsetia), indicate that any of the 18 boats of the PX 1-18 series can be built, implying they were a standard design.

However, searching online it looks like these boats were anything but standard. Some had five windows in the front of the cabin and some had three (like Sangsetia). The cabin door position and shape was different in early ships such as PX1 Mahota, and also the area and vents above the engine access compartment varied considerably. At least some had circular access/escape hatches in the deck fore and aft which are not shown in the Metcalfe plans, and the position and design of companionways differed. Also the shape of the radar tower varied - many had an arched form over the bridge rather than the central tower in the plan. It also appears some had the windows and controls at the front of the cabin raised up at a later stage, presumably for better visibility.

I was wondering if anyone knows the original sources for the Dave Metcalfe plans? The first article from Model Boats September 1996 refers to a small-scale plan in a Russian book about ships but gives no reference.

I have only found two pictures of PX11 online:

PX11 and Px12 in 1975 (no ship's boat visible)

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015013034221;view=1up;seq=288

An early photo of the side of the cabin of PX11 at 1:19 minutes in this video (no filler valves visible), plus glimpses of PX1, 8,9, 10 & 12 from the side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qDWRZGaMKw

There are some other interesting images of the PX series on this Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pasukanpolismarin/


I have a few questions about the Sangsetia plans that I was wondering if anyone can answer:

1. The plans indicate PX11 had Oto Melara 20mm Cannons on tripods, but all the photos of PX boats I have found have Oerlikon 20mm cannons on hydraulic pedestals. Was Sangsetia different?
2. Did Sangsetia really have the red filler valves shown either side of the engine cooling vent structures, as I have not seen these in any pictures of PX boats?
3. Shouldn't Sangsetia have the circular escape hatches in the deck fore and aft?
4. Shouldn't there be internal access ladders from below decks into the cabin and from the lower bridge cabin up to the upper bridge? At least three pictures of other PX boats show this, whereas the plan shows a map table in the middle of the lower bridge cabin. It wouldn't be very convenient or safe if the only way to get to the upper bridge was the external ladder. The marine police training centre has a model of a longitudinal section of PX12 (photo attached) which shows these ladders.
5. When did PX11 have the ship's boat and crane? The only other PX boats I have seen with a ship's boat were PX1, PX12 and PX 14 (see photo below), and these had the boat directly behind the cabin, not at the rear as in the Sangsetia plan.

Even if no-one can answer these questions, I hope people building Sangsetia will find the links above useful.
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douglas g

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 07:09:26 AM »

Since this post, I have been searching the Internet and Facebook and have found a treasure trove of photos of PX series police boats on Facebook. The key was to use the Malaysian words "kapal ronda" and "kapalronda" as search terms in Facebook, which means "patrol vessel". Other terms I have used are "polis marin" and "bot polis". Most of these images are from Malaysian marine police officers who served on these boats, particularly when they were being withdrawn from service. Having found some pictures, I then looked at the photos of people who commented on them and people who were friends of the posters. This has found quite a few more photos, as many images will not be tagged precisely for searching.
While PX1-18 were nominally the same series, with the same hull length and displacement, there are quite large variations between them. I have identified three main designs that I will describe in posts below and link to the relevant photos.
I have found some very useful side views, both close -up and distant. By zooming into these on the computer screen, or expanding the images to the correct size and printing, it is possible to compare with the plan for Sangsetia.
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douglas g

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 07:24:43 AM »

Note: You will need to be logged into facebook to see these photos.

PX1 - PX8

These are the original design with a wheelhouse that is very different to that in PX11 Sangsetia. The wheelhouse front is vertical, not sloping, and has five windows rather than three. The wheelhouse also lacks the projections either side behind the wheelhouse in the area of the engine room cover. Other distinctive features are the small windows in the wheelhouse side and the rounded top and bottom to the wheelhouse doors. The ship's boat is stored behind the wheelhouse above the engine room cover.

PX1 and PX2 - these photos were taken when the boats were first built at the yard in Singapore in the mid-1960s:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/pasukanpolismarin/photos/?tab=album&album_id=471419331991

PX2 circa 2010/2100:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=198596903518433&set=p.198596903518433&type=1&opaqueCursor=Abor4a-RePKK12Nnr9bOabzhoODNrTt-RWIY_x2HNiZ1HSepmU26Sb3hMOxB_PHU9p-Vp7O4MI2Z4VHjFqxdJACIDbFFUOECxEO1elmX1kJ9wEP2uSj8DMbPr3-l5TimDVLWrAaKWNT_HXpe-bjGW0wMUqT7nutFg1qwyevWjC8v0G8w_NJ6BW8j2lk0V1NRVLYg6uNobbvWwv-wYWNEHMsqPVmDSequ2NmvEx2kAsRFLv1-9US5yZ9z4vXRBWTUngcXki6NyfbPqKfW2k0fgLIKd8lTE8daFS01jPEnIJq9v3C-uFLCchrxayxZwHFCNxNvO89TAzzbv0qZj2XedsCI0DQ7gyKtmmvqkwXM_mgCdypQrB9o_xUWUgEXSoHsO_7ejnVtj8TbwjAeG1qPvHBQM-xm3NnDKuDYTlgQilZ99g&theater

PX8 in 2011:

https://www.facebook.com/otai.jakpo/media_set?set=a.227136587317661.62997.100000639644390&type=3

PX8:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437285049671358&set=a.437285039671359.100266.100001696013086&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=442830595783470&set=pb.100001696013086.-2207520000.1507474042.&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=442830842450112&set=pb.100001696013086.-2207520000.1507474042.&type=3&theater






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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 10:26:20 AM »

Note: You will need to be logged into facebook to see these photos. >:-o >:-o >:-o

PX1 - PX8

These are the original design with a wheelhouse that is very different to that in PX11 Sangsetia. The wheelhouse front is vertical, not sloping, and has five windows rather than three. The wheelhouse also lacks the projections either side behind the wheelhouse in the area of the engine room cover. Other distinctive features are the small windows in the wheelhouse side and the rounded top and bottom to the wheelhouse doors. The ship's boat is stored behind the wheelhouse above the engine room cover.

PX1 and PX2 - these photos were taken when the boats were first built at the yard in Singapore in the mid-1960s:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/pasukanpolismarin/photos/?tab=album&album_id=471419331991

PX2 circa 2010/2100:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=198596903518433&set=p.198596903518433&type=1&opaqueCursor=Abor4a-RePKK12Nnr9bOabzhoODNrTt-RWIY_x2HNiZ1HSepmU26Sb3hMOxB_PHU9p-Vp7O4MI2Z4VHjFqxdJACIDbFFUOECxEO1elmX1kJ9wEP2uSj8DMbPr3-l5TimDVLWrAaKWNT_HXpe-bjGW0wMUqT7nutFg1qwyevWjC8v0G8w_NJ6BW8j2lk0V1NRVLYg6uNobbvWwv-wYWNEHMsqPVmDSequ2NmvEx2kAsRFLv1-9US5yZ9z4vXRBWTUngcXki6NyfbPqKfW2k0fgLIKd8lTE8daFS01jPEnIJq9v3C-uFLCchrxayxZwHFCNxNvO89TAzzbv0qZj2XedsCI0DQ7gyKtmmvqkwXM_mgCdypQrB9o_xUWUgEXSoHsO_7ejnVtj8TbwjAeG1qPvHBQM-xm3NnDKuDYTlgQilZ99g&theater

PX8 in 2011:

https://www.facebook.com/otai.jakpo/media_set?set=a.227136587317661.62997.100000639644390&type=3

PX8:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437285049671358&set=a.437285039671359.100266.100001696013086&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=442830595783470&set=pb.100001696013086.-2207520000.1507474042.&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=442830842450112&set=pb.100001696013086.-2207520000.1507474042.&type=3&theater
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Gunna build those other boats one day.

douglas g

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 06:37:36 PM »

Next instalment...

PX10-PX12

These patrol boats are of the design represented by the Dave Metcalfe design of PX11, Sangsetia.

Photographs of PX11 Sangsetia are hard to come by. The only one I have found is in "Combat fleets of the world. 1976-1977" which is available on online, showing PX11 alongside PX10 in 1975:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015013034221;view=1up;seq=288

The wheelhouse of PX12 is shown in this photograph from 1978:

http://my1foto.penerangan.gov.my/stock-photo/lawatan-sultan-selangor-dymm-sultan-salahuddin-abdul-aziz-shah-ibni-almarhum-sultan-hisamuddin-alam-shah-ke-kuala-selangor-selangor-187402.html

Plus there is the photograph of the model of PX12 shown in the first post.

Fortunately, there are lot of photographs of PX10 Shabandar on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=322127911256757&set=a.322127881256760.1073741833.100003786538221&type=1&opaqueCursor=AbpU4_GXpawbzOmpCpDt8J2pkTp66zgF0_HgDnADn1uIdLQMaok1Bg2T-JtOjFECxieh_TI3JC-7d3RdOeBKpnNkxN24OgwflVavnrYxnGdIX10vKdG1SBu3sRef6VQeuj71s1JSbOfCSP9WmCcWUshoIxyAHUbhuyrAOuC-vzsJMhHznMOzdQH4TgmcvVb6j7IlKImP8pDv74L4C3vvLZGx4Jg_Yq_HGFwBgIi7CvezFyfhWqcnb_LENtYNV6boc6gGN9TfosfY8m_r_5-LfKvuYXa3YQwbmOoO53eCRbbdnO96sEYA_6IbdJXgKuQPazJiZM_JLG6kxXInT9xU3tZur7xViVHgLeEtPb3WnK6_fkOjbmbRGOt3TAlaLiCTsOPImosCwxW-EnItwbTz16OMLBQnLN4SUGpPllcwwwA07dp5Y8qmeVFJeo1dE9tNX1N620VHVWaKGVwW5W1o5qmUULNgZxs9xzrn7jMUs0qelnkc2eBMH6uezPlsdiUYVOHkyAgYJLdjTJjD6lL4n_zM&theater

https://www.facebook.com/roslan.shaffei/media_set?set=a.130533086976923.15626.100000606970561&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/mohdjani.amit/media_set?set=a.174400302600096.35033.100000903825172&type=3

The last link has dozens of fascinating photos of PX10 from 2010, during a training course for marine police divers. There are useful side views of PX10 from a distance, and many close ups of the wheelhouse, hull and deck at the stern that would allow an accurate model of PX10 to be made. Note that if you scroll down from the first batch of pictures of the boat past photos of the divers, there are more photos on board on the rear deck.

These photos of PX10 and 12 and photos of other members of the PX class show quite a few differences from the Sangsetia plan. Perhaps Sangsetia was a one off in some ways? Differences include:

1. The ship's boat is not at the stern on the port side, as in the plan, but behind the wheelhouse, as with other members of the class.
2. There are life-rafts either side at the stern, not just one side.
3. The positions of the awning supports, fairleads and bollards are different from in the plan.
4. The porthole positions are different (and actually quite consistent across PX1-15). There are ten portholes on the starboard side and nine on the port side (one less at the stern).
5. There are no mushroom vents on the wheelhouse roof either side of the upper bridge, or swan-neck vents in the deck either side of the wheelhouse.
6. There are circular hatches on both the front and rear decks.
7. The wheelhouse windows do not appear to be recessed, although perhaps they were originally.
8. The wheelhouse windows have rounded corners.
9. The projections either side of the wheelhouse rear are curved in an S shape rather than having straight edges (this is the case for all PX boats in the range PX10-PX18 that I have seen).
10. The radar mast is made of an open tubular structure, not solid, and is behind the wheelhouse rather than on the wheelhouse roof in both PX10 and PX12.
11. The guns appear to be Oerlikons on conical stands, not tripod stands.
12. There is a single large exhaust port either side of the hull.
13. There is no large scoop type vent on the wheelhouse side as shown in the plan, but there is a grill-type ventilator further back.
14. Scaling up sideways views, the wheelhouse on PX10 and some other boats seems to be taller than in the plan (by perhaps 0.75-1.0cm).
15. The companionway at the rear is a hatch and not the taller, curved top companionway shown in the plan. Also it is in the centre, not offset to the starboard side as in the plan.
16. I can see no evidence of a door at the back of the wheelhouse, although in most pictures this area is hard to see because of the ship's boat.
17. I have seen no images showing the filler taps that are shown either side of the wheelhouse projections in the Sangsetia plan.
18. The mooring bollards are a distinctive angled design.
19. The rubbing strakes come up much higher at the bow than shown in the plan.

As a say, perhaps PX11 had detail differences. But in the article that accompanied the plan when first published, Dave Metcalfe did say that the plan was drawn from a very small plan in a book and a small photograph, so might have involved a bit of interpretation.

But the hull seems to be accurate and would allow a model to be made using the details from these photos.





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douglas g

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 08:31:46 AM »

PX13 - PX15

PX13

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=178840745504028&set=pb.100001343122861.-2207520000.1507540716.&type=3&theater


PX14

https://www.facebook.com/chiyakbey.yu/media_set?set=a.156441357741854.43587.100001279722025&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/jemat.kion/media_set?set=a.234187563292205.59893.100001028902734&type=3

(These photos are when the boat was being decommissioned in 2011)


https://www.facebook.com/mohdjaafar.ahmad/media_set?set=a.159475924083683.35321.100000638298482&type=3

(PX14 at the police jetty in Kuching, Sarawak, where it was based in 2010)


There is another image of PX14 in the first post to this thread, and I have a few others, but can't remember the source.


PX15

https://www.facebook.com/pg/polismarinw5swk/photos/?tab=album&album_id=458987739691

(I think it is PX14 behind the photo of PX15 at the jetty)

Quite a few differences had been made to the design of these boats compared to PX1-PX12. The wheelhouse windows are much shallower and the bridge is quite different. It has an arched aerial support (not sure what this is called) over the rear of the bridge, and there are round projections either side of the bridge towards the back to allow greater visibility fore and aft. Also very visible is the raised area in front of the wheelhouse which was a feature of these and subsequent PX boats. I am guessing these were storage lockers, and replaced the standalone ammunition lockers in the earlier boats.

The other thing I spotted just in time when preparing to cut out the wheelhouse sides is that the wheelhouse door is in different positions on the two sides. It is one window position further back on the port side, whereas it is similar to Sangsetia on the starboard side. I think this is to give an access door to both sections of the wheelhouse, which had a partition wheel between the bridge area and the office behind.

Also noticeable in these images and some of the earlier designs as well (e.g. PX10) is that in later days the rear cannon seems to have been removed to make room for an outdoor mess area with table and chairs and covered by an awning. I would imagine it could have been dangerous to fire a cannon with the awning supports in place!

I am currently working on a model of PX14 based on a wooden-hulled version of the Sangsetia plan. I changed my mind from modelling Sangsetia due to my doubts about the exact details, and as PX14 will give me something a bit different. I have been able to work out most of the details from the photos I have found of PX14 and the similar PX15.


PX17

I have found three pictures of this. It was similar to PX13-15, except the wheelhouse door on the port side is moved back to the same position as in Sangsetia.


PX18

https://www.facebook.com/marine.pgm/photos?pnref=lhc

https://www.facebook.com/px.srilabuan/media_set?set=a.213582715351512.55763.100000993560271&type=3

This is a one-off design, with a covered upper bridge and a window missing from the wheelhouse side.
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douglas g

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 09:48:06 AM »

I have been sent the attached, undated photograph from Malaysia which suggest that at some time Sangsetia PX11 had the wheelhouse/cabin rebuilt in the style of the later boats PX14 and PX15. The photos I have posted of PX10 above suggest that this boat was not rebuilt in this way.
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mike_victoriabc

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2018, 03:13:44 PM »

You've certainly found a lot of information on these boats. Looking forward to seeing how the build goes.
I'll have to dust mine off and see if I can carry on with the details. Been sitting on a shelf for 3-4 years since last in the pond.
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douglas g

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Re: Sangsetia PX11 Malaysian police patrol boat
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 05:49:41 PM »

I am intending to start a new thread soon on my build, Mike. The hull is a bit unsightly at present as it has had to be stripped down, gaos filled, the existing portholes filled in and the portholes redone in the correct positions.
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