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Author Topic: HMS Prince of Wales  (Read 5735 times)

gingyer

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2017, 04:20:25 pm »

Regards to the F35, I see the US Navy rejected the plane and went for its own fighter the F37 and their air force has the F22 (raptor) as its fighter.


ehh?????  {:-{ {:-{ {:-{


The US Air Force got 187 F22 Raptors, due to high costs the last model was built in 2012 and future aircraft will be F-35's
the US Navy will be getting the F-35C with the first squadron to be operational in 2018


the F37 is a fictional aircraft
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2017, 09:11:45 pm »

Yeah I was talking to a RAF senior officer the other day he said they would love the raptors but they cost the earth. As to the F37, I was reading an American site the other year and it showed the photos of the 37 on its acceptance trials.
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BrianB6

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2017, 11:59:19 pm »

The F37 Fighter has recently  had its endurance extended.  %%

http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/f-37-fighter-packs-long-range-punch/
 
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2017, 11:50:11 am »

Love the bike, real style.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2017, 01:38:18 pm »

Yeah I was talking to a RAF senior officer the other day he said they would love the raptors but they cost the earth. As to the F37, I was reading an American site the other year and it showed the photos of the 37 on its acceptance trials.




And the fact that when 6 F-22's went against 6 Typhoon FGA4's the result was rather embarrassing for Lockheed when all 6 F-22's were 'shot down' during the exercise. Rumours have it that the main pressure bulkhead is prone to corrosion on them too which unfortunately for the price of each of them is a nasty bite in the backside! Hence the F-35 programme being the next universal 'fighter' for all.
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Nick B

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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2017, 05:02:54 pm »




And the fact that when 6 F-22's went against 6 Typhoon FGA4's the result was rather embarrassing for Lockheed when all 6 F-22's were 'shot down' during the exercise. Rumours have it that the main pressure bulkhead is prone to corrosion on them too which unfortunately for the price of each of them is a nasty bite in the backside! Hence the F-35 programme being the next universal 'fighter' for all.


I have heard similar. The F22 is super stealthy and invisible to all, right up to the point it fires its missiles, then it is fair game in a 'turn and burn' dogfight.

Canards eh, who'd 'ave 'em :}
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McGherkin

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2017, 08:08:52 pm »




And the fact that when 6 F-22's went against 6 Typhoon FGA4's the result was rather embarrassing for Lockheed when all 6 F-22's were 'shot down' during the exercise. Rumours have it that the main pressure bulkhead is prone to corrosion on them too which unfortunately for the price of each of them is a nasty bite in the backside! Hence the F-35 programme being the next universal 'fighter' for all.


The Red Flag exercise ignored stealth and missiles, purely putting each aircraft against each other using traditional guns.


This doesn't actually have any real parallel with real life. The reality is that the F22 can pick up the Eurofighter from 220km away, and get a good designation from 180km. The Eurofighter can pick up and designate from 65 and 50km respectively (all ranges dependant on external stores, jamming, relative headings etc). The Eurofighter would be shot down before it even saw the F22.

The stealth capability is only slightly reduced while the weapons bay doors are open, which is only a few seconds.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2017, 02:25:42 pm »

Ahem  8)


Theoretically maybe the F-22 may have that capability but most BVAAM (Beyond Visual Air to Air Missile) only have a range of 37km max. So the F-22 may supposedly lock on to a Typhoon 180km away but it still needs to get into range of its own missile system to engage the target which then makes it vulnerable to the more agile Typhoon. Secondly I doubt that the F-22 can engage a target 220km away when it's own radar can't do it as you would need either an AWACs or a ship or a radar station to see that far. The restricting factor is the radomes on fighter aircraft. Radar in aircraft radomes are restricted to the range of movement of their scanners. So most fighters are restricted to approx 40 degrees forward and 25 degrees up and down. This doesn't allow for very good long range radars hence the need for AWACS aircraft.
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Nick B

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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 02:37:59 pm »

Nick that begs the question, do the RN have AWAC facility in mid ocean, I know the yanks do, but then their carriers large mix of aircraft for all purposes.
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McGherkin

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2017, 03:27:52 pm »

Ahem  8)


Theoretically maybe the F-22 may have that capability but most BVAAM (Beyond Visual Air to Air Missile) only have a range of 37km max. So the F-22 may supposedly lock on to a Typhoon 180km away but it still needs to get into range of its own missile system to engage the target which then makes it vulnerable to the more agile Typhoon. Secondly I doubt that the F-22 can engage a target 220km away when it's own radar can't do it as you would need either an AWACs or a ship or a radar station to see that far. The restricting factor is the radomes on fighter aircraft. Radar in aircraft radomes are restricted to the range of movement of their scanners. So most fighters are restricted to approx 40 degrees forward and 25 degrees up and down. This doesn't allow for very good long range radars hence the need for AWACS aircraft.


Target designation with the AIM 120D AMRAAM is 180km, with an engagement range of 75km.


The Typhoon can pnly detect the F22 at a range of 65km, as the F22 has cooled panels which largely defeat the Typhoon's P.I.R.A.T.E. IRST. The Typhoon is a great aircraft, but it's a fourth gen fighter and that's it.


We do have AWACS at sea, this is currently delivered by the Sea King AEW, but in future this will be a Merlin variant.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 04:42:57 pm »

Unfortunately mate the AIM-120D isn't available anymore as the company that makes it has messed up and hasn't provided a single D variant since 2007. The USAF has withheld payments to Raytheon since 2012 until the weapons are delivered but it seems unlikely that any delivery will take place.
So the F-22 is armed with the same weapons as a Typhoon but carries significantly less of them. In my opinion stealth is not the answer to fifth generation aircraft- once you see one on radar and you can positively identify it as a stealth aircraft then you know what you are looking for in future. The Germans learnt this in WW2 when we used Mosquito bombers made from wood. They were practically the first stealth aircraft in a matter of speaking but once the Germans realised what they looked like on a radar screen then it wasn't any different to before. British radar picked up the first B-2s and F-117s in 1991 much to the horror of the USAF who'd spent billions on development of these 'stealth' aircraft.
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Nick B

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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2017, 08:26:05 pm »


Hi Nick, I was reading a mag a couple of years ago, which seamed to get hold of info on modern weapons, though I have not seen it for year now. But with your mention about the Mosquitoes, they were quoting the Russians as saying that now have tech to pick up the F35, works on displaced air similar to how subs can be hunted by water disturbance, plus they have considerable powered up their HF trackers for their SAM systems, so I suppose like most things, it goes in swings one day you have a killer the next an antidote is found and a new killer is found. Same as the Chinese have had for a while a 7.5 ton missile, which goes up into the outer atmosphere then dives at sonic plus speed at its target with a range of 1600 miles, apparently they happily admit it was designed as a Flat top killer.
Glad I am a O.A.P. now, just pity the young guys who have to confront these things for us, they have my total support and admiration.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2017, 08:35:25 pm »

Hi Dodes


I've been told that they do something similar in the air with air disturbances. Apparently Fylingdales picked up an air disturbance several years ago flying from the continent towards RAF Fairford so they contacted Fairford demanding why they hadn't filed a flight plan for the two aircraft that had arrived that day. The USAF denied all knowledge until Fylingdales gave an exact time and course for the aircraft and questioned why the two aircraft were trying to avoid radar by flying below 250ft. After saying if they didn't admit to the incident and identify themselves they would be forceably removed from British airspace and not be welcome again the USAF admitted that two B-1 Lancers had tried to infiltrate our airspace without prior clearance.
You can always improve the radar to find what you're looking for!
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Nick B

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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2017, 09:31:06 pm »

Hi Nick, that's interesting, but it is also frightening for the poor fellows who have to stop them or get through on our behalf, ether way STARTREK is coming sooner than we think, would love to wander around the universe in something you can wear slippers and drink tea out of a cup and saucer. Just keep those old warbirds in the air Nick, every time I see them or hear them it brings a tear of joy and pride to the eye (or grit from a diesel engine).
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Netleyned

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2017, 02:34:39 pm »

  (or grit from a diesel engine).



Pussers Diesel was a bit gritty.
Diesel gennies in hull on grey ships
left marks that the Jimmy hated!
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2017, 12:21:17 pm »

Yeah and what make Jimmie really mad, Blow Tubes without warning!!!!
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