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Author Topic: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017  (Read 12479 times)

Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2017, 03:54:52 PM »

Have to Guy's i'm overwhelmed by the interest in the old Sea Queen ......................


Coming from the model aircraft world we are recommended to use 'bullets' at all times and I still do.


The Turnigy marine ESC range seem to be all W/C and whilst at times I'm drawing 50A  from the 60A ESC it's just warm . Their range is reasonably priced and the quality excellent . Dare I say you can pay twice the price and this will not be as good - fact . Also their whole ESC range has a switch as standard .                                                                 


I have noted with some surprise there has been little mention of the 'watt meter' that is so widely used in the model aircraft . I have used  this instrument to help identify the correct prop and the level of current drawn from the LiPo in the S.Q. 

Long may this interest continue.............

Peter Wallis

North Hampshire
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2017, 04:14:37 PM »


I think that you can divide the model boating population quite easily. Those with an aircraft background believe in our watt meters & most of the rest have either never heard of them or certainly never mention their use. I guess that part of the problem is that I have a box full of aircraft propellers & I am quite happy to try a few to see what works & what doesn't. Scale model boat owners take a guess, based on experience or recommendation, and buy one relatively expensive brass prop. As most scale boats do not push their motors very hard this seems to work most of the time & very few know or care whether it is the optimal solution. Boats are a lot less sensitive to weight than aircraft so always fitting the bigger motor is rarely a bad idea in a boat.


You will have noted that there is virtually no data available for scale model boat props.


I will be interested to hear what your watt meter records.
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2017, 05:30:48 PM »

I would be interested to know if there is a watt meter that can record the highest load drawn by the motor when at sea and remember it. I suppose a test in the bath with one might give some indication of power consumption. (For safety do not sit in the bath during testing!).
As outlined above, with model boats it is a case of trial and error as speeds can usually be fairly slow and will vary greatly compared to an aircraft. Whereas I imagine a motor on a model aircraft is probably running at max output for a lot of the time.
David
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David

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2017, 06:54:45 PM »

 Yes you can do this. You can buy logging systems such as:
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54
You can also buy motor controllers that do the data logging for you - in fact this is the way that I would go.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aerostar-advance-150a-esc-opto.html
I have not used data loggers & I am sure that it can be done for a lot less money than those listed above. I offer them as a demonstration of method only.
If you only want peak readings it is much easier & cheaper. If it was me in a boat with long time high throttle/load use I would think keeping an eye on motor temperature was a good idea as well.

 
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2017, 08:13:35 PM »

WATT METER


Used to measure the amount of current being drawn from the battery - in my case LiPo .


I know what my motor will draw and the max the ESC can handle .


The boat is placed in the water whilst held advancing the throttle to maximum .


If the measured current is below the max throttle setting then the prop is too small - either fit a larger prop or one with more pitch .


If the current drain is to high the fit a smaller prop or increase pitch .


From my experience I never run a set up more than at 90% of the ESC - in other words do your homework otherwise when you make a mistake it can be expensive . I am lucky as I have a very good friend who checks though my system ......................


P.W     





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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2017, 09:40:19 PM »

Hi Shady

Or the Turnigy L5055-700 which I am going to use in my 46" Vosper Crash Tender with a 52mm 2 blade prop on 3S to start with and maybe 4S on a Hobbyking car ESC 100 amp.
I also have a 150Amp water cooled ESC which handles up to 6S (twin 5800mah 3S in series).
A mate in the club has a number of props around the 50-60mm size I can test as well.

Canabus
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2017, 07:52:13 AM »

Many thanks Canabus. Your past advice regarding my Vosper MTB and Fairmile D was spot-on, so Turnigy L5055-700 it shall be for Sea Queen.
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2017, 07:59:32 AM »

The build of my Aerokits (Jotika) Sea Queen is progressing rapidly but I have noticed that there are no strakes or spray rails included in the hull design. What are you folks thoughts on this please?
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2017, 09:41:37 AM »

Hi Shady Sadie
The original Aerokits plan which I have a copy of, only shows a rubbing strake at the edge of the deck/side as 1/4" x 1/8".
Personal after my SG&K 1920 Gentleman's Runabout which did not have spray on the bottom of the sides(not invented in 1920).
I would be adding spray line as the runabout throws a mountain of water up the sides at low to mid speed and on cornering.
Looks great, but, the boys keep their boats out of the way!!!!
As for spray rails on the bottom of the boat, two on each side as it help lift the boat out of the water for more speed.
 Added a picture of my experiment on a Swordsman hull to give you an idea.

Canabus
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2017, 10:48:37 AM »

Well Guy's I built and still use both my Sea Queen and Swordsman that I built 50 odd years ago .


The original S.Q only has the rubbing strakes  but the skeg that fills in between the prop shaft and hull plus the 'V' hull that gives her the stability . One thing that is often forgotten is getting the C of G right . Coming from model aircraft this is second nature but not so much with the model boat world !


My Swordsman has the spray rails and these do exactly as required and her turning at speed is just perfect - remembering I also use the sea !


Peter Wallis


North Hampshire   
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2017, 11:26:23 AM »

Hi
Peter is totally right about the CG of both aircraft and boats.
I ran my Precedent Huntsman for the first time the other day with the CG to far to the stern.
The sat bow up and hitting a few small waves from other boats it was bouncing up and down.
Moved the battery forward about 50mm which had the bow a little down.
The second run the boat sat level and cut straight into the waves.
The 3648-1450kv on 3S was getting the boat up to about 35KPH !!!

Canabus
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2017, 12:49:37 PM »

I think that's cos you live in the Southern Hemisphere ..........................there has just been a very interesting documentary about your little steam railway - I have to mention !


Went to a Model Boat Exhibition the other weekend where there were several S.Q's on display but all the motors were the old MFA 800 or 850 that were excellent in there time . Need I say more !


I have doubts whether my 4BA prop shaft power could managed your power unit - do you use a metal or plastic prop  !


Check out www.propman.uk.com they were at the exhibition .


Peter W


North Hampshire
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2017, 02:30:58 PM »

Regarding spray, rails my original picture posting of my SQ in action in the 1970s shows the rails fitted then and still in place. These can be seen in the later stern shot, as can the chine rubbing rail.
All my boats have spray rails and I think an important point is to keep them parallel to the keel on the basis the water is passing straight down the length of the boat.
For my Sea Nymph I over-ran the side skin and formed an integral spray rail as I have seen in full size boats.
The Huntsman has nicely triangulated section rails that best match the deep V hull. I have left them as square strip section on my models as they are fairly flat section hulls to the rear.
I also brought the keel to a razor edge and cut it back to reduce turbulence in front of the propeller. The larger version having just a length of exposed prop tube to again allow water to flow unhindered to the propeller.
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2017, 02:45:45 PM »

May I say a beautiful bottom........................what I do notice is that the spray rails do not appear to run the full length of the hull it appears they finish in line with the prop - why !


On my Swordsman they run the full length of the hull and I can see why !


Peter W


North Hampshire
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2017, 03:00:25 PM »

Hi Peter
I think for my models the spray rail fitting is a bit of guessology. The Sea Nymph will never run at a high enough speed to warrant rails to the stern. Stopping short of the propeller was just a nod towards avoiding feeding air to the prop area; though the brushless motor is well capable of cavitating the prop on tight turns if you are over eager.  I could probably have run the rails further forward but as a general fun model it becomes arbitrary.  The incorporated turn down at the chine rail does however earn its keep.
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David

shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2017, 03:24:58 PM »

As I understand it, the rails on the bottom of the hull are strakes, the rails on the chine running from bow to stern are the spray rails and the rubbing strip is at deck level. Or have I (probably) got it wrong!
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2017, 05:09:08 PM »

Yes, I have indeed got it wrong! I've just looked up Bluebird's excellent post (13-8-11) regarding spray rails etc. and all has become clear.
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2017, 08:58:08 PM »

I guess I have never really looked a the precise terms that closely but, by putting 'strakes on a boat hull' in Google images, it throws up a whole heap of info. I enclose one small sketch found that also includes a 'knuckle' section that I have seen but just thought to be a design flair.
The strakes usually seem to be a triangular section as seen on most Fairey models and help produce lift.  They also do not appear to need to be parallel to the keel in the bow area as I guess under planing conditions these are in the air.  Anything along the edge being a chine rail.
A rubbing rail would logically be positioned to protect a hull from contact with a dockside or similar when putting the rudder over And depending upon hull shape not always at the water line. For simple designs like the Sea Queen it just looks right along the chine rail though I have seen many SQs without these and they look just as nice. All down to the personal taste of the builder.
Glad I have learned something new today.
David
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2018, 07:46:00 PM »

Another request for Sea Queen info. please. My build is now complete apart from final painting but please can you give me a starting point for finding the CofG / balance point?


Thanks, David.
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2018, 09:31:59 PM »

David
I think with boats like the Sea Queen, the CofG for balance is a bit arbitrary; depending upon the speeds you hope to run at. The motor is as close to the propshaft as is practical. The radio weighs next to nothing so is in the rear cabin; as it was in the petrol head days (it was cleaner in there!).
I initially placed the batteries forward of the motor and the boat floated level. But of course the bows did not want to lift. Placing the battery pack to the rear of the cockpit section proved to be about right. The bows lift at just a modest cruising speed and it sits right when stationary.  At full speed (no photos available as I am at the helm!) a fair amount more is out of the water. However, I do still have trim tabs from the petrol days
Bathtub floatation test will eventually show water line if part of the painting scheme. 
Do add a thread on your build. The more (SQs) the merrier.
David
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2018, 10:11:58 PM »

David - last year I installed my third engine an electrc 600 outrunner weighing only 130g my previous old brushed motor  weighed some 530g . Not forgetting forgetting long ago I used a 12V GelCell then a NIMH and finally a 3S LiPo 5500A .


I class my 50 year old Sea Queen as a fast electric and at all times I have balanced her COG where I installed the carry handle bolted into the main bulkhead that carries the windscreen identified as the bulkhead where the prop-shaft first enters from the universal coupling.


Whilst this is not central to the overall length it provides a perfect position when at speed  on the water - in the same way as with model aircraft she is slightly nose heavy but rises beautifully to plane when on the water .


Good luck - I built mine 52 year ago and she is still my favorite ......................YES


Peter Wallis


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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2018, 01:43:14 AM »

Hi Peter

You are spot on with your comments!!!!
A bit of nose down at rest and with power it sits just right on the water.
The American classic boats re-engineered by StarCraft (you tube) with the main design on making the boat sit better on the water and a softer ride.
50 old Sea Queen with a young heart, beautiful !!!!!
I still have the original plans.


Canabus
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2018, 08:49:12 AM »

Tkx for those comments it's made my day .................................
I did consider changing the 600 outrunner to an 800 or more but I also have a Swordsman and they both share the same capacity LiPo that makes for economical  running .
I noticed awhile ago where you are in Tasmania and have to say it continues to amaze me just how far this hobby stretch's thanks to the internet . You may recall that I switched to a w/c ESC that I purchased from Hobby King . This 60A  Turnigy has proved faultless as with the 600 motor I can draw up to to 50A .
I would like to build a Huntsman using the wooden kit that is still available but the Swordsman is so similar ....................any thoughts  !


Peter


North Hampshire
 
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2018, 08:57:02 AM »

Many thanks Davo, Peter and canabus for this latest information. Once again this forum has proved to be a veritable mine of knowledge.
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2018, 10:33:17 AM »

Hi Peter
If you can get a Spearfish kit, as it is the sportsman's cabin cruiser/racer.
My mate has a MFA Spearfish fibreglass one and is handles like a dream.
We fitted a 3648-1450kv 1600 Watt brushless motor on a 4S 5800mah Lipo a 100 Amp Car ESC and a 2 blade CNC 40mm 1.4 pitch prop.
37 KPH !!!
That is one fast old girl !!!

Canabus 
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