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Author Topic: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?  (Read 12907 times)

roycv

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 08:22:06 am »

Hi all, I have just put in a relevant item under St, Albans model show.
regards Roy
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Rottweiler

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 01:57:41 pm »

We sometimes have the same suggestions at the many rallies we attend.Most who applied a fee for exhibiting,lost a lot of exhibits.Yes it costs money to put these things on,but dont forget the exhibitors have expenses also,and without exhibitors you would have no show! I love the Blackpool Show,and have only missed it once in the last 8 years.Each year it becomes more expensive,and because of age,more difficult to attend.I dont drive,so I need my wife to drive us up there from Cornwall.The Hotel costs us around 400 pounds for 3 nights,we have fuel to pay for from   Cornwall and back.We buy drinks and food at the venue during the day.We pay to travel on the trams if we want to visit anywhere.We buy food on the way up and on the way back,and inevitably we purchase goodies from the traders at the show.
Just one instance,at one event a good many of us went to,they decided to introduce a charge of 5 pounds per table.I normally have 4 tables,one of my friends had 6 tables,and most others had at least 2 tables.Some were coming 100s of miles to exhibit.once the exhibitors heard this, 12 of us pulled out,leaving very few in the marquee,and we still have not returned,favouring another rally many miles away on the same date.This I think tells them something.Remember,most exhibitors are there to display,and do not sell,so are making nothing but spending a lot.Whereas the much needed traders do pay,and it is down to them if they make a profit or benefit from their outlay.
Mick F
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Atlantic Mouldings

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 07:46:09 pm »

We all know shows are changing, but to keep on subject should exhibitors pay to display? simple answer NO.
However i feel if the shows are being put onto raise money for  charity or run by a charity , i see no reason why the organisers couldn't ask for a small donation.





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Atlantic Mouldings

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 07:54:35 pm »

Here's an interesting thought ( FACT )


Model boat show visitor numbers are on the decline.
Model railway shows arn't suffering as much.  WHY  ?


HOWEVER!!!!


Why do Model railway exhibitors demand and expect to be paid to display inc hotel accommodation, Food and Petrol whilst us model Boaters are just happy to come along at our own expense and show our models and yet boats shows are struggling to survive?
 Unfortunately now the likes of  Blackpool , warwick  are having to add other types of models  so its only likely that more boat shows will go! The likes of tamiya truckers etc dont display at show without travel expenses!  So our Boat show organisers clearly feel its worth paying out  for them , perhaps they should invite model railways too as they like giving money away.


And before you all get on your high horses, yes i have organised shows and deal with said exhibitors every week so it is FACT!!!!! <*<
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2017, 07:58:25 pm »

Model Railways are far, far more popular than model boating so lots more punters.

Colin
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Atlantic Mouldings

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2017, 08:01:44 pm »

Yes they are  But still shouldn't be paid to exhibit!

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2017, 08:07:44 pm »

I think the reality is that the financial dynamics vary from show to show depending on the circumstances.

What works in one situation doesn't necessarily work in another.

Colin
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Atlantic Mouldings

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2017, 08:14:23 pm »

I do agree with you Colin, i think the point im trying to make is Boat shows are losing numbers and rather than subsidise stands and admission there paying for displays that don't relate to the key show ie us boaters.
take Warwick for example you can't exhibit unless you belong to a club , by allowing individuals they would attract some new modellers
By adding a club run bring and buy , a positive step , but no
and the prices for stands in certain circumstances are more expensive than those at Railway shows. anyway rant over . Sadly a show i no longer support.
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Rottweiler

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 08:26:07 pm »

Well certainly if I find out for sure the truckers are being paid to attend at Blackpool,then I will never ever even visit the show again!
Take the fantastic Brighton Show,now sadly defunct,and why?? Because they gave everyone some recompense for attending,and yes I did claim also,mainly for fuel I might add.Now I wonder if the organisors were NOT to pay exhibitors, would not save thousands perhaps,and enable the show to return,as it is sorely missed.
What really does it matter if Boat Shows become more diversified,and become Model Shows? Surely this would attract more people with more to look at,which is just common sense and will keep the shows going?
To us exhibitors,it isan event where we can show our models with pride,and give the public a chance to see something different.We also make new friends,and as in my case,some of them I may only see once a year at that particular show.
We also get to seeproducts that are on the market that we have no chance of seeing or even know about otherwise.Why do we do it?? Because we love it! Iam not interested in winning any trophies such as best display,or best model etc,although I did win one of the categories once!
Mick F
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cos918

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2017, 08:59:00 pm »

I do agree with you Colin, i think the point im trying to make is Boat shows are loosing numbers and rather than subsidise stands and admission there paying for displays that dont relate to the key show ie us boaters.
take Warwick for example you cant exhibit unless you belong to a club , by allowing individuals they would attract some new modellers
By adding a club run bring and buy , a positive step , but no
and the prices for stands in certain circumstances are more expensive than those at Railway shows. anyway rant over . Sadly a show i no longer support.


To answer two points .
For the last 2 years Warwick have let individuals in. Not sure if it is going to be happening this year .


Take a big ish model rail way show. You might have 20 layouts and 25 traders. The take from the traders normal covers the expense of the layouts.
 Take a model boat show of the same floor space. You could well have over 200 model boats and still 25 traders . There is no way the take from the trader will cover 200 model boat expense claims .
With model railway shows covering expense is historical thing so kind of ingrained in that show circle. But show organisers do watch it like a hawk


One thought. The biggest model show in Europe is Dortmund show which cover nearly all aspects of modeling .


John
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McGherkin

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 09:02:10 pm »

Looking from a different angle, as a car enthusiast I regularly put my car on display at shows. Usually it can range anywhere from 10-30 and all I am doing, really, is parking on a bit of grass! Even better, at some shows I will participate in an autosolo demo event, costing another 10-15. I'm not reimbursed for fuel (which is not cheap!) or tyres, but I accept these costs as part of my hobby.

I'm talking a little out of turn here, as to exhibit you first need something completed to exhibit(!), but I certainly wouldn't have an issue with paying 5-10 to be able to display my handiwork, especially if the alternative is not having anywhere to exhibit at all.  {:-{
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Atlantic Mouldings

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2017, 09:15:34 pm »

Yes Warwick has allowed individuals in but only as part of Steve Deans group if he picked you ,
not for example as Bob from Cornwall showing his three boats on a table  or Steve from Newcastle showing his 8ft torpedo boat,
and jack and Phill from Brighton with there boats on another table.
Either way  they do not get the chance, and for the record i would be happy to pay a tenner a table for an enjoyable weekend weekend and to show my boats.
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roycv

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2017, 09:34:51 pm »

Hi all, the model railway layouts are built with the idea of running them at shows, they stay packed up between shows.  They have thought through the erecting of the model railways and have good quality connections between baseboard units to make assembly simple and quick.  The baseboard unit storage is sophisticated and easy to transport, which is their intended use.

The model boat show is incidental to the use of the model boat.

So railway modellers are always improving the layouts for detail and operational interest solely for the visiting public.  They hope to be accepted at a model railway show.  Only a few are used as operational layouts in club rooms.  The club room will house a complex layout in continuous update mode. 
Its a different ball game.
regards Roy
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dave king

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 10:02:47 pm »

Well I think it would be a show killer to start to charge to have a table at shows. For me to show at blackpool it is 160 for a room Friday and satday night. On top of that I have meals to buy plus the cost of traveling to the show. Our club gets no real gain out of attending the show except it is good to meet fellow modelers and see what is on offer from the traders. Start adding more to the cost and it is not worth the trip over. Also as one person said about the models are the same every year. When I have looked around I see on most stands new models every year. On our stand we will have about 18 boats and 9 are new builds and not been to shows. Also I have yet to find any one on the stands who will not discuss a boat or try to help when asked.

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Stavros

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 10:18:57 pm »

Mick rest assured on one point the Trucks are NOT paid to attend Blackpool in any way shape or form neither are any of the clubs etc






Dave
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Rottweiler

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 11:46:49 pm »

Thanks Dave,for explaining that no one gets paid,which is good to know.
AsI said,I wasnt coming this year due to the expense,but my wife has decided to drive up,bless her,and we will be there.I only plan to bring a couple or even one small model,and will have it on my pal Neils table.
Hopefully,if I can make it next year,I will have my new model of the HMS RAMILLIES,plus artefacts from the ship.
See you soon matey!
Mick F
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2017, 01:01:04 am »

Hi Peter,
I am curious as to how the Australian event organizers pay for the event. Is it through sales of BBQ and beer, public entrance tickets, parking and camping fees for visitors, sponsors, traders fees, free venues provided by local government (local tax payer) or land owners, local community financial support (fund raising) for local event?
Not only will the culture differ, but mechanisms for doing thing will also differ. There may be some lessons to be shared.


Mark, the main difference between the type of shows we attend, and the dedicated model boat shows being referred to in most of the posts, is that our shows are more diversified. Our attendance is often part of an event such as a rural show, air show and, in one case, even a model railway show. We don't have dedicated model boat shows in our area, you're more likely to see them in the major cities such as Brisbane, Sydney, or Melbourne etc. We tend to be an "added attraction" as it were, and as such are often, but not always, reimbursed for our attendance. Having said that, we do not ask for payment if we are invited to a show but, if it's offered. we will accept it %)


Peter.
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gingyer

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2017, 02:42:10 am »

Reading this thread and thought it's time to put my pennies worth in......


I go to Haydock nearly every year with my mates and display, would we continue to go if required to pay for tables, I don't know. Now we had this discussion this year between us and at Haydock we use normally about 10 tables and 1 of us had suggested a halfway point where you get say 6 tables but then you pay for any extra ones you want after that it may allow the organisers a bit of room to save money for the show.


Now the other points raised: attendance
Sad it may be but attendance is going down and I feel it's not because shows are to expensive or interesting but it's our hobby we seem to attract the wasters out there at times!
Those with nothing better to do and no where else to go!
I'm at present in a club with nearly 100 members of which 40% you never see from 1AGM until the next.
30% are not interested in model boating but somewhere to go and sit on a Sunday and have a cup of tea.
That leaves the final group those that are interested in model boating. So out of that remaining 30% that's the ones who would go to other shows, but even then only a few would take a boat and sit it on a table.


 up in Scotland there was a model show, open for any club to attend display, free to attend for members of the public but the local clubs would not support it,  some people were criticising the fact a local youth group were there displaying their plastic models yet these same people didn't have the guts to turn up and display themselves! In fact 1 club attended the show on both days yet would not take a table or show any boats but  walked around criticising others for their displays!


That's what  I believe is the real problem we have now got to a state where people join model boat clubs not that they build, sail or want to see models but want somewhere to go, so you have no chance of getting them to attend a show and put a model on display...


The last point which has been shown up in this thread, the constant rumours that are made up and sent out by scum!
I fail to understand this but in the run up to this years Haydock show, people were being told it had been cancelled, on this thread someone has been told the show is down sizing and on another forum someone had been told that it was the last ever show at Haydock, all of which has been disproven by the organisers.
I have heard things over the years about other shows too and it makes you wonder what pleasure the scum that makes these rumours up is getting? If we do not though nip these stupid rumours in the bud quickly then someone wiling to drive several hundred miles to a show may start having doubt if it's a wasted journey or not and again that's perhaps another person lost to the hobby......
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tigertiger

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2017, 03:44:48 am »

Playing devils advocate here, putting principle aside there is an argument about proportion, my intention is not to belittle other peoples arguments.


A hypothetical question.
If potential exhibitors are spending hundreds of pounds to attend a show, then the cost of table is a small addition (maybe the cost of a couple of beers). If (speculation) that makes the difference in the viability of a show, is that a price worth paying, or should we just let the show fail?
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tigertiger

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2017, 04:01:03 am »


...the main difference between the type of shows we attend, and the dedicated model boat shows...attendance is often part of an event such as a rural show, air show... and, in one case, even a model railway show. ...We tend to be an "added attraction" as it were, and as such are often, but not always, reimbursed for our attendance.
 


Ah! got it. There really is no comparison. It almost makes the case for someone to try and negotiate space at rural shows, air shows, maybe the boat show in the UK, and on the side of other genres of model show.
 In the case of rural shows, in the UK certainly, there are large corporate sponsors (Usually the farming insurance companies). Air shows also generate a lot of money. It is not unfair to think that these kinds of event could pay.
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cos918

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2017, 06:35:17 am »

Playing devils advocate here, putting principle aside there is an argument about proportion, my intention is not to belittle other peoples arguments.


A hypothetical question.
If potential exhibitors are spending hundreds of pounds to attend a show, then the cost of table is a small addition (maybe the cost of a couple of beers). If (speculation) that makes the difference in the viability of a show, is that a price worth paying, or should we just let the show fail?


Ask your self this. If the cost of a few hundred pounds table hire is what keeps the show alive,then the show is already in deep money troubles. Getting exhibitors to pay for tables may save them for a year or two . If they dont turn the show around it will die.


john
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phil_parker

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2017, 01:16:44 pm »

Yes they are  But still shouldn't be paid to exhibit!

The economics of taking a model railway to a show are very different to a single boat. A 20ft model railway will normally only have 4-6 operators, the similar space filled with boats would attract how many people, each bringing one boat? Chances are the railway will require van hire. Looking at another hobby and saying "We don't get paid, why should thay" is a just a great way to anoy others. As Colin says, you can't compare the two. The railway guys have to work all weekend operating the models too. As has been said here, many (not all) boat modellers drop the model and clear off only returning to the stand to store purchases and sit down to eat their sandwiches.

I can certainly see logic is dramatically restricting the numbers of free tickets given to any club stand. Coleville suffered badly from the numbers of people who only brought a boat for Saturday. I'd estimate at least a quarter of the models weren't there on Sunday and others have suggested it's higher than that. Perhaps if clubs only had 2-3 people on duty who manned the stand on a rota this would help the finances as well as (IMHO) putting on a better presentation.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2017, 01:37:28 pm »

We attend about fourteen shows every year, ranging from big radio control shows, regional static displays, local events hiring our pond and 'have a go' boats, museum based model shows, to full pyrotechnic displays. Some we contribute to the events costs by hiring extra tables and purchasing extra tickets ( both Yeovilton and Bovington would provide two free tables and five complementary tickets, everything extra you pay for. ), some we attend at our own costs, while some events pay us for either pond hire or pyro costs. Interestingly, we have been offered payment more often by the smaller events, in some cases very small events. Some shows provide all our table needs, while others provide nothing. It seems to be a more complex issue than initially suggested.
As far as show profits go, we may be under the impression that these events are money making juggernauts, but I would not be at all surprised if a small profit (or loss) is the norm for most events, once tent hire, staff costs, risk assessments and insurance costs are taken into consideration. Having spoken to event organisers over the years, I suspect the above is the norm, so it is, without doubt, a two way street. It may be nice to attend to these events, free of charge, but we all have a responsibility to make a show work. so bring your most interesting stuff, smile and engage with the public, keep the coke cans and sandwiches off of your display areas ( I have the photos, don't make me put them up, fellow clubs! ) and make sure you promote the hobby to the best of your ability. ( I would suggest throwing a towel over those members caught sleeping on stands! ).
A question for the oldies, Did we have model boat specific shows back in the seventies and eighties? I can only remember multi discipline shows like Sandown Park and Plumpton.
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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2017, 03:04:23 pm »

We attend about fourteen shows every year, ranging from big radio control shows, regional static displays, local events hiring our pond and 'have a go' boats, museum based model shows, to full pyrotechnic displays. Some we contribute to the events costs by hiring extra tables and purchasing extra tickets ( both Yeovilton and Bovington would provide two free tables and five complementary tickets, everything extra you pay for. ), some we attend at our own costs, while some events pay us for either pond hire or pyro costs. Interestingly, we have been offered payment more often by the smaller events, in some cases very small events. Some shows provide all our table needs, while others provide nothing. It seems to be a more complex issue than initially suggested.
As far as show profits go, we may be under the impression that these events are money making juggernauts, but I would not be at all surprised if a small profit (or loss) is the norm for most events, once tent hire, staff costs, risk assessments and insurance costs are taken into consideration. Having spoken to event organisers over the years, I suspect the above is the norm, so it is, without doubt, a two way street. It may be nice to attend to these events, free of charge, but we all have a responsibility to make a show work. so bring your most interesting stuff, smile and engage with the public, keep the coke cans and sandwiches off of your display areas ( I have the photos, don't make me put them up, fellow clubs! ) and make sure you promote the hobby to the best of your ability. ( I would suggest throwing a towel over those members caught sleeping on stands! ).
A question for the oldies, Did we have model boat specific shows back in the seventies and eighties? I can only remember multi discipline shows like Sandown Park and Plumpton.


Ramsgate (and I'm not as old as you)
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smudger1309

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Re: Should clubs pay to for stands at shows?
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2017, 04:02:38 pm »

i never ever been to haydock,  the show always falls on the bank holiday and clashes with Holyhead Lifeboat day,  where am i going to take my model lifeboats (2 of them are Holyhead boats) a RNLI lifeboat day or haydock, But maybe another reason is that it is on a bank holiday weekend during the summer holidays, why not try  an normal weekend that isn't a bank holiday,   you have people going away or  they have family and friends visiting on bank holiday so they go out to other places
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