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Author Topic: Combat Place. Static Display.  (Read 7754 times)

dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2017, 05:31:35 AM »

Tompion (to close cannon) and sponge bucket made and installed.  Dennis
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tigertiger

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2017, 06:50:03 AM »

I can't help wondering where the tompion would have been stowed during battle stations.
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JimG

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2017, 01:38:29 PM »

They may have been stowed down in the hold with the tables, benches and other furniture. Or just in a box out of the way on deck. It's not as if they would have been difficult to replace if lost.
One problem with this kit is it doesn't show an actual arrangement. If the cannon is run out of an open gunport ready for action then the table and benches would not be present. If you want to show the table and benches then the gunports should be closed and the cannon muzzles lashed tightly to the hull side to stop them moving.

Jim
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2017, 02:23:40 PM »

Yes, Jim... I agree comopletely.  The kit shows a haphazard layout for the tools, some just laying on the deck, others, properly stored overhead in racks.  Lack of research?  Probably, or just get the components out to be visually seen.  At least I will provide a "key" along with my gift so that my friend can at least idenify the different tools, etc.  What I liked about this kit is the visual impact... Wow... look at all the stuff they used in and out of battle.  Wait till I start hanging hammocs  Thanks for your keen observation in any case.  Dennis
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JimG

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2017, 07:47:04 PM »

The overhead storage is for when the ship is no longer at action stations. When in action the tools will normally be held by the appropriate member of the gun crew. As you have no crew then you are forced to leave them on deck. However rather than a haphazard position try to position them in some order as they would be used. You can set up one gun at action stations and the other run in with port lid closed to show the crews living conditions.

Jim
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ballastanksian

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2017, 10:28:01 PM »

You are creating a Diorama and as Jim observed, the lack of figures will make for more consideration of layout and 'story telling'. The Tompion would be best put somewhere where a crewman or worse an officer  %% would not trip over it, but will also be in the diorama. What scale is the model? There may be suitable figures if the model is in a standard scale (1:32nd, 1:48th etc).

All in all a lovely piece and one that will have so much detail for your friend to find. I hope he is pleased with it as you put a lot of effort in your work, and to hear that someone would query that becuase it isn't a full ship model would be sad.

As regards the crew's life aboard, it was hard and in action could be dangerous, but the Navy fed their men well if monotonously, and as Nelson is supposed to have said regarding food: 'What the eyes cannot see-the heart shan't grieve over'. Meat and fish was often salted and dried for the winter months when times were less plentiful, and I doubt that the sailor's families at home would have had half what they got as a daily ration, certainly not as much meat!
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2017, 11:03:26 PM »

Tks gentlemen, some good comments and suggestions.  Actually, one of the cannon is run back some (probably not all the way) and I could insert the tompion into that one at least.  As I begin to create the appropriate tools, I will be asking some suggestions and provide pictures so collectively, maybe we can come up with some good solutions other than what the kit is telling me to do.  Best regards,  Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2017, 02:28:24 AM »

Here are some drawings that will give an idea of tool placement that the kit is showing.  The one drawing show various tools is from the internet. The model scale is 1:23.  I like the idea of maybe adding figures for interest, but fear too much congestion if I do.  Its cluttered enough as it is.  I think that having a list or "key" will help in identification of each tool and maybe do a short ID on the tools use.  Something for you guys to think about, so go to work!  And thankyou!  Dennis ;)
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2017, 02:28:48 AM »

more.
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2017, 02:29:18 AM »

more.
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warspite

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2017, 01:32:15 PM »

Ha - lol, a bit cramped, just how cramped would be evident if the crew were there, and in the actual day was very cramped, you could cast in clear resin a figure holding a tool so as not to obscure the cannon - how effective is debatable, a photograph photo-shopped with text labels on each tool next to the diorama would help, especially when completed 1) does not mean you have to label items on the kit 2) several photos means the same picture can show different tools not shown on the first photo, also photos at different angles depict the tools when they get obscured.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2017, 11:26:16 PM »

Good ideas especially if your friend wants to display it for others to see. Clear resin figures could be cast, but the moulding and casting would be quite costly especially for a one off model. And that is after sourcing or sculpting the figures  %%

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tigertiger

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2017, 03:50:03 AM »

Just some random thoughts.
It is a difficult one, but as suggested before, a lot of the gear would be stowed for action stations. I believe that the hammocks would be stowed up on the main deck, a bit like sandbags, to stop splinter and other debris flying across the deck.


Possibly the best, and most expensive, option would be to buy a second kit. Then do two scenes, one normal everyday meal time, and one battle stations.
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2017, 04:17:40 AM »

Interesting ideas for sure.  As it is, the kit does make provision for rolled up hammocks to be inserted between the webbing attached to the deck rail stanchions to act as a small amount of shrapnel protection.  One hammock will be strung "open" and one "close" hung from the overhead of the gundeck.  As for another kit... I have been giving this idea alot of thought for some time now. The way the kit is designed, two kits could be joined back to back to make a full width deck, four to six kits join would yield a very large diarama and if I continued the idea further, I could add masts, more decks, rig her and have one very huge (maybe 8ft long) model! :o ... back to reality, two kits would be awesome and I'd like to do it.  Since this is a gift, I could purchase two more and really do it up nice with these suggestions.  Model would be 20" long, 10" wide and 5" high.  Not bad at all.  Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2017, 07:24:35 AM »

Gentlemen, I have another question for you.  I am intreged about the idea of after I finish and release this model, that I purchase two more of the same with the idea of joining them back to back so to speak so that I can get a full deck width section plus four cannon.  The question I have is that I have no way of knowing if the "inside" edge is truly at the centerline of the ship.  The kit manuafacturer makes no mention that this model is a scale model of the HMS Victory.  Only, that it represents a typcial cannon deck of a standard English ship of the line.  If I just ignored the question of centerline and went ahead, built two models and jointed them.  I am pretty certain that I would have one very interesting diorama with which I could do some interesting things that have already been mentioned.  Model size would not be that huge: 20"x10"x5".  I guess I have to answer the question, do I really want to invest over $400 US to have something that is unique just to me? I know for certain that I would sure love to give it a try and have the funds for it.  I know there are many kits out there of entire ship hull slices, including one mast and all yards and rigging. There is even a bow section that again shows all deck level.  But nothing this large or complete with detail.  Please feel free to comment if you wish and help me decide.  Best regards,  Dennis
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tigertiger

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2017, 01:43:32 PM »

I am pretty sure that you have more than a half deck. The hatches would have been along the centre line of the ship.  You model looks like a section of the middle gun deck. If you wanted to expand on the model, you could plank the upper deck, and put cannon on there, but that would take a bit of research. The lower gun deck and orlop deck were much wider and housed the bigger guns.
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Bob K

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2017, 02:23:46 PM »

Looking back over your pictures I believe that Tigertiger is correct.  The double row of black vertical columns with grating hatches above are equispaced about the centreline of the ship.  ie:  Your model shows more than half the width of the ship.  The real centreline would bisect the grating hatches and upper planked area.

I am really enjoying this build, so beautifully detailed.  On HMS Victory the long tools would normally be stowed above, but held by members of the gun crew in action.  Difficult to show both states with the table and seats deployed in meal time positions.  About the closest maybe to show one gun run out, and the other secured (as you have it) but with that gun port closed.

You have two pairs of hammocks.  Suggest the ones from over the "in action" gun should be stowed in the hammock nets topsides, as they would be in action.
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2017, 05:13:53 PM »

Tiger and Bob, thank you so much for your suggestions.  It would be possible to build the first kit as is for framing and then cut the frames on the second kit back on width to match the outside edge of the first kit... if that makes any sense from this old brain.  I certainly agree that those grates would be on center line.  Yes, I can stow those hammocks on the action cannon... all kinds of options for the new half for stowing the table, rolling a cannon back in , closing that hatch, stowing tools, etc.  I'm working on a railing that goes on top, again on center-line and I've checked all the pictures I can find on-line and can't seem to find a match.  As soon as I get it worked up, I'll post a picture and perhaps get it identified as to accuracy, placement, etc.  Indeed, this is a fun project and I highly recommend for those inclined to build one. (no, I'm not a sales rep. :} ) cheers,  Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2017, 02:24:26 AM »

Well folks, sometimes we need to get knocked down to our knees for a moment of humbleness in order to improve, in anything.  I happened onto this web site: http://www.ianlawrencemodels.com/gundeckwip.html  and I have to say that this master knows his stuff and if you can believe, with mirrors, has achieved what I have been thinking of doing at half the cost and effort.  You really need to step through his build log to get the full effect of what he has done with this kit. And, indeed, I will take some of his ideas and methods, though probably not use the mirrors, as I'm still convinced that I would like to build the full width  and do it that way.  The rest is amazing as you will see.  I found it interesting that he did not include the railing I am working on now, nor did he add the, what I will call, catheads.  Its all been done before folks.. always.. nothing new under the sun and always, always something new to learn.  Regards, Dennis :((
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derekwarner

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2017, 03:02:25 AM »

Dennis......

The enamelled and buffed cannon barrels surface finish appears very unique/authentic/lifelike  %)......

It may be a dust collector, however the use of oiled/waxed wooden surfaces also adds the perception of crispness and reality too......something that cannot be achieved with any semi gloss or matt polyurethanes no matter how thinned

Derek
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2017, 05:02:50 AM »

Yes, Derek, he did a beautiful job on that cannon.  I've just about finished up the railing, just have to add some varnish and glue her into place.  I think it might be cool to add a few coiled lines to those belaying pins for effect.  Hammocks next.  Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2017, 05:03:15 AM »

more.
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warspite

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2017, 07:24:28 AM »

The guns may not be 'in action' just training, so having one operating and one closed up may be normal.
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JimG

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2017, 01:35:09 PM »

Unfortunately training involved the full gun deck. The log entries were always exercised the guns, always plural.  Part of the training was clearing away all unnecessary objects into the hold to give a clear gundeck. The object was to have all of the guns on one side of the hull ready at the same time for a full broadside. (only manageable for a few broadsides as the loading speed of crews varied especially as they tired.) There was only enough crew to fully man either the port or starboard guns although both sides may Have been loaded ready for firing. The guns on the unused side would not be run out and the port lids may be closed.The only time one gun crew would have been exercised would be if they were doing a poor job but the whole gun deck would be cleared for action.

Jim
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dlancast

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Re: Combat Place. Static Display.
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2017, 07:54:53 PM »

There is a good reason to have both sides built.  I could show one side "loaded and ready" with tools at the ready (unless I could show crew) and the other side with cannons rolled back and tools stowed, table down.  Mom now wants a new sink, so I might not be able to do this for a while  :((  Dennis
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