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Author Topic: Another Government Hen-Up!  (Read 1658 times)

ChrisF

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Another Government Hen-Up!
« on: November 16, 2017, 06:20:47 PM »


Whilst driving home heard on the radio that the scrapping of paper road fund licences has cost the UK government millions in lost revenue!


It has saved about 7m. in admin. but lost them about a 100m. in revenue!!  >:-o


Reasons cited are more people chancing (not a big risk obviously) not taxing their cars as no visual check on the car and confusion over transferring tax when car ownership changes. And that's despite the double taxing for a month on change of ownership.


What galls me is that I was fined for not taxing a motorbike (another hobby) some years ago within a few weeks due to an MOT failure and despite me writing and giving them a number of vehicles which had been consistently taxed for years they weren't interested and I had to cough up. As ever, a generally law abiding citizen gets targeted whilst the less so get away with it.  >>:-(

So what has happened to that "efficient" process for catching non-payers - probably over-stretched? With that system and ANPR (automatic number plate recognition for our overseas members) I certainly wouldn't risk it but obviously many do.


As ever, with so many government changes it ends up as a mighty b*lls up leading to increased costs or reduced revenue or both.


Gawd only knows what is going to happen if and when the take up of electric vehicles happens and the lost revenue from diesel and petrol has to be found.


Chris
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david48

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 12:00:37 PM »


 A tax on amps or watts which ever collect to most cash
david
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ChrisF

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 12:42:47 PM »

Yeah, but how are they going to differentiate it from normal domestic consumption?


It's easy at the moment with petrol and diesel and the amount of electric vehicles being low they aren't that bothered.


Likewise if there were more LPG cars on the road that would be heavily taxed and no longer cheap.


Governments are short term thinkers with most MP's just being interested in their own positions with the result that everything they touch ends up as a mess, usually financial.
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roycv

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 01:10:44 PM »

Hi, I was out some years ago in London with an ex resident of Germany and she commented on the occasional German car we saw with German number plates and no tax disc.  Every time the number plates were out of date, you have to purchase new plates as a form of licensing, so they were not paying any RFL.  I do not suppose the situation has changed as most traffic wardens would not know detail like this.  I also doubt it is programmed into the ANPR system.
I think it was a retrograde step not having a disc on show.  If you are stopped because of this by ANPR police vehicles that is an additional cost to process the non-payment but of course from another department's budget.
regards Roy
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tigertiger

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 04:11:23 PM »

I seem to remember Diesel fuel was cheaper, until enough people had changed to Diesel engined vehicles. I expect it will be the same for EVs.
As for the tax disc, it was a useful reminder (seen daily) for people with busy lives.
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RST

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 07:03:00 PM »

Quote
What galls me is that I was fined for not taxing a motorbike (another hobby) some years ago within a few weeks due to an MOT failure and despite me writing and giving them a number of vehicles which had been consistently taxed for years they weren't interested and I had to cough up. As ever, a generally law abiding citizen gets targeted whilst the less so get away with it.  >:-(" title="Tickoff" class="smiley">

...really sorry but eh, so what did VOSA do wrong if you had a bike not declared but you sent them documentation on others which were??  I have more than one car -if I don't insure one and get caught out, I can't justify it because the other is insured?
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Steve Dean

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 07:39:08 PM »

Something about this doesn't make sense. For those of you that are unaware all vehicles are on the DVLA database and they can see any vehicle that has NOT been declared SORN and therefore is being used without road tax. This should generate an automatic fine.
Similarly they can also see if the vehicle has insurance and has an MOT (if required).
A 3 year old kid can write a computer program that lists all vehicles on the database that are non-compliant, therefore I do not believe that the DVLA are not doing likewise. Is there an element of media hype going on?

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 07:43:47 PM »

Just the usual hen up I think, at a considerable loss to the exchequer. No wonder they are constantly short of money.

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RST

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 08:03:33 PM »

Quote
Something about this doesn't make sense. For those of you that are unaware all vehicles are on the DVLA database and they can see any vehicle that has NOT been declared SORN and therefore is being used without road tax. This should generate an automatic fine.
Similarly they can also see if the vehicle has insurance and has an MOT (if required).
A 3 year old kid can write a computer program that lists all vehicles on the database that are non-compliant, therefore I do not believe that the DVLA are not doing likewise. Is there an element of media hype going on?
"should"

Case of the Nissan outside mine back in January....

...Appeared at Xmas 2015. Never seen it before, full of junk -scraped down one side.  We have allot of rented properties at mine, so be it.  Appeared late December.  January not moved, checked reg -taxed and insured.  February not moved, tax and insurance still OK. March -tax andinsurance expired November previous year!!!!!!!

Alerted VOSA and Police, car dissapeared within 12h. 

...I can see how there's savings not issuing tax discs these days.  It's all going to rat s**t these days now though -there's no VOSA office in my town.  I could not tax or transfer ownership of my new car when I bought it because the website shuts at 19:00hrs!!!!  It's very embarrasing and not working too well is it.
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kinmel

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 08:53:51 PM »

There are no VOSA vehicles beyond the A55 in north wales and you get a prize for seeing a police traffic car with ANPR equipment unless it is on blues and twos.

On summer weekends, suitable kit is set up on the English border at Sealand to catch all the incoming tourists, beyond that nothing. Fines and vehicle taxes go to Westminster, so who cares?
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ChrisF

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 10:23:10 PM »

...really sorry but eh, so what did VOSA do wrong if you had a bike not declared but you sent them documentation on others which were??  I have more than one car -if I don't insure one and get caught out, I can't justify it because the other is insured?


They didn't do any thing wrong I just hoped they would drop the fine if they checked that 99% of the time I'd had a number of cars and bikes (including the one in question) taxed over a considerable period of time and therefore was not a serial road tax dodger.


It was an innocent oversight, the bike was not being used and I was caught out by the then recent change to having to SORN vehicles if not taxed even if not being used. Another one of those changes that law abiding citizens can fall foul of and has no effect on the seasoned cheats.


The difference between insurance and road tax is that the latter is just a duty/tax that is nowhere as important as having insurance and in my case I wanted to tax my bike but couldn't because of a lack of MOT.


And guess what, recent changes now mean that you can get fined for no MOT even if the vehicle is not being used and it hasn't been SORNED!


Hopefully this won't happen again as I have a list on the fridge of when road tax, insurance and MOT's run out. 
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RST

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 12:46:36 AM »

Quote
They didn't do any thing wrong I just hoped they would drop the fine if they checked that 99% of the time I'd had a number of cars and bikes (including the one in question) taxed over a considerable period of time and therefore was not a serial road tax dodger.

That excuse is laughable.  I imagine it went down that well at the court office also.  Man-up and swallow that dude, you were in the wrong -but admittedly probably got caught compared to others. You'll probably still get to heaven.
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ChrisF

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 11:20:43 AM »

Are you trolling?
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BrianB6

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 03:38:01 AM »

Maybe take a leaf out of Sydney's book:
"Sydney toll road users to get free car rego after spending $25 per week"
"Motorists who rack up large bills on Sydney's toll roads will get their car registration free, the New South Wales Government has announced." O0
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warspite

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM »

I also have an issue with the enforcement of the 'rules', yes cars are taxed and insured and have a current MOT, not a problem for me, but it galls me when a list could be generated for each division (traffic) that shows the vehicles on the LIST, but not have been mot'ed or Taxed, first hour on the shift could be used going down the list until they are all found and confirmed as either legal or caught, same goes for roadworks, I travel along the M60 regularly, and I am surprised if not sure that the average speed camera's are not connected, at 2am in the morning when they haven't shut the damn thing, that cars pass me at 60 mph, that they get away with it.
Some years ago when travelling down the M6 on business (as a driver for the boss who had lost his licence for 14 months) we were going down through the  Leeds roadworks and we noticed that there were no cables coming from the concrete blocks that supported the camera poles, they would at least have had power, so I know that most people consider these as cash generators, but if they stop the idiots and pay for more officers than its a good thing - except the cash generated wouldn't be used for what its really needed for, squandered on other things by the incompetent fools that make the decisions, just my opinion.
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ChrisF

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 12:13:17 PM »

They wouldn't even have to do that.


With the data held it would be a simple enough task to generate a report which I would assume is how they caught me and that was only not having it taxed for three weeks.


But if what reported in my first post is true then obviously this is no longer happening or the system has been overwhelmed and a majority of tax dodgers are getting away with it.


I even Googled it and found reports that folks have reported untaxed cars being used on the road to the DVLA and they weren't interested!


I really despair of government who increase the women's pension in one foul swoop from 60 to 67, don't reduce the deficit and yet let millions slip through their fingers from road tax dodgers etc.


As ever they go after the easy targets.
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jaymac

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 12:34:05 PM »

You think you are hard done by I know 2 people who had their cars clamped by the DVLA on  a recent purge .Yes their cars were untaxed They ARE Exempt but they had not filled in the form a much lesser crime than yours but they still got done.
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warspite

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 05:31:44 PM »

Begs the question - who trained these people or what are they told to do, and why are they doing it
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BrianB6

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Re: Another Government Hen-Up!
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 09:09:39 PM »

Could a Moderator remove "Reproduced with permission - CCLI church copyright licence 209788" from my post and this post.
I have absolutely no idea how it got there.
Brian B6



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