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Author Topic: Titanic - fascinating  (Read 4983 times)

Brian60

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Titanic - fascinating
« on: December 23, 2017, 07:36:32 am »

I came across this video and the way this guy explains stuff is really interesting, I especially like the way parts are highlighted with translucent colours....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHmgF4ibmuk

tony52

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 09:40:54 am »

A superb clip Brian as my current research project is the Olympic.

Thanks

Tony
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TurboTyne

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 06:37:22 am »

I agree that is a very good video. Several years ago I had access to the original copies of the journal "Engineering" from which he took many of his illustrations. I scanned the whole artcle and all the associated photos and drawings. If Tony or anyone else would like me to send the pdf file that I created just drop me a pm.
Regards  Mike
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roycv

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 09:16:25 am »

Hi Brian, this documentary was on one of the cable channels a few days ago, I agree very good.  With my techno son here I found out I could plug my TV into my laptop and watch doc's on the big screen.
regards Roy
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tony52

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 09:20:16 am »

For any plastic kit builders, this link from the USA is a superb build of Minicraft's 1:350 Titanic.

http://www.titanicmodel.net/
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Brian60

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 09:25:07 am »

Hi Brian, this documentary was on one of the cable channels a few days ago, I agree very good.  With my techno son here I found out I could plug my TV into my laptop and watch doc's on the big screen.
regards Roy

simply done with a hdmi cable, but if you are really technical and have a smart tv, you can stream it wirelessly - I found out on xmas eve when watching discovery channel and it suddenly went off to be replaced with xmas carols and a notice saying it was being streamed from 'karens Ipad'  >:-o I went through to the kitchen to find her baking with carols happily playing from her tablet %% Now I profess I don't know how she did it, I suspect the tv is monitoring other wireless devices.

BrianB6

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 10:28:57 am »

The film is on AGAIN on Melbourne TV as I type  <:(
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2018, 07:01:26 pm »

 
 https://youtu.be/rs9w5bgtJC8  YouTube:  Titanic sinks in REAL TIME - 2 HOURS 40 MINUTES



 
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2022, 01:01:19 pm »


Found this on Utube:   Titanic steering gear.


 
https://youtu.be/CZe-exu2RBU
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2022, 03:54:03 pm »

Absolutely amazing, who knew, and a really good presenter  :-))
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T888

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2022, 05:29:52 pm »

Tonight at 7:00 on channel 4 “ Titanic Building the worlds largest ship”
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2022, 06:09:00 pm »

Interesting video on Titanic steering. The engineering was surprisingly sophisticated really, including the hydraulics to the bridge.

These days, many cruise ships rely on thruster pods which push or pull the ship along and and move it in any direction.

Back in the 60s I watched the Cunard Queens sailing from Southampton and several tugs were needed to position the ships to facing down Southampton Water. In 2011 I was aboard Queen Mary 2 in the same Ocean Dock and the ship just moved quietly away from the quay sideways using bow thrusters and pods, backed out into Southampton Water, turned to seawards and was away with not a tug to be seen!

In contrast, the video I just posted of the carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth proceeding to sea from Portsmouth included several tugs as warships are not usually fitted with low speed directionsl means of propulsion. In fact the process was very similar to what I remembered from the 60s in Southampton!

Colin
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derekwarner

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2022, 01:33:11 am »

Thank Martin........I needed to rewatch the video twice [@ about 11:50+ minutes ] to make sure I understood this fundamental cockup  :embarrassed: ....


Was it 1st Officer Murdock's Order [assumed as from the RN School of Navigation] or the Helmsman [Merchant training?] which caused the vessel to turn toward the iceberg?  ....was this ever referenced in the subsequent investigations?


It would also be interesting to understand just when our World Navies [both Merchant and Military] stopped using 'rudder orders' based upon a 'handheld tiller' :-X


Derek

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dodes

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2022, 04:54:18 pm »

When I was on the R.M.S.S. St Margarets, i was shown the handbook for her steam steering motor, what was interesting it boasted of 12 previous vessels fitted with this type of motor and one was the Titannic. It was interesting because normally you have a quadrant secured to the rudder post head and the motor is bolted to the deck to turn it, but like the Titannic the motor was bolted on the end of a tiller arm and the quadrant was bolted to the deck, the steam pipe had a flexible connection on the rudder post head. Shame it was not removed for preservation when she was sold for scrap.
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Geoff

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2022, 09:55:08 am »

I've heard of this steering error before but believe there is some confusion as with a tiller you push the tiller to starboard to turn to port and vice versa. I freely admit I don't know the precise design of Titanic's steering set up but an order hard a starboard may indeed turn the ship to port. Think of how a dingy is sailed.


In the very old days the command was starboard or larboard which often caused confusion so "port" was introduced to avoid confusion. I also believe that as per dingy control the same set up was used in many merchant ships.


However this could all be an urban myth as to what order was given 110 years ago!!



Oddly enough if the Titanic had hit the iceberg head on she would easily have survived!


I also saw the programme on building the Titanic with all the safety measures put in place. It concluded that with three adjacent compartments flooded it would float but not four. It also concluded that modern cruise ships can only float with two adjacent compartments flooded!


Cheers


Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2022, 11:42:23 am »

Re helm orders, see the link below for a full explanation.The change to direct helm orders for the Royal and Merchant Navy did not take place until 1933 so it is highly unlikely that a mistake would have been made on the Titanic. People don't do their homework!

https://snr.org.uk/snr-forum/topic/admiralty-fleet-order-regarding-change-from-helm-to-rudder-orders/

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2022, 12:44:33 pm »

I suppose it is self-preservation to order hard over to try to avert collision, but I remember we were told at college one should if at sea and collision was unavoidable to go stem on as it is the strongest point of a ship. Belief i saw a photo of the Lusitania or one of her co with a damage stem after hitting a iceberg stem on and survived with a crumpled stem.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2022, 01:15:08 pm »

You may be thinking of the ss Arizona in 1879:

http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/great-disasters.asp?articleid=141&zoneid=1

Quote
I remember we were told at college one should if at sea and collision was unavoidable to go stem on as it is the strongest point of a ship.

As far as the Titanic is concerned, presumably the officer of the watch believed that he could avoid the iceberg and the ship very nearly did, it was the unseen underwater projections of the iceberg that ripped the hull open.

The reciprocating engines were put astern when the iceberg was sighted. The centre turbine was not reversible and so was stopped. It has been suggested that if the engines had been kept ahead the ship would hve been more responsive to the rudder, especially with it being in the waterflow from the central propeller. Like everything to do with Titanic there has been lots of discussion about it.

Colin
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derekwarner

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2022, 11:57:16 pm »

I find the following comment from - Thomas1, of June 2022 [posting #16 from Colin] very interesting  :P ....Derek

"It stands to reason that the ship’s wheels were originally rigged to turn the wheel to starboard, in order to steer the ship to port. It was not until automobiles were common that new helmsmen were confused by the backwoods ship’s wheel
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Derek Warner

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derekwarner

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2022, 12:05:46 am »

I'll find a setup of the rudder post setup with pulleys & a wheel............... %)


 :o %) :embarrassed: ...I am unable to find any references that suggest the original setup for a wheel to a tiller was anything but a stdb turn of the wheel which resulted in anything but a turn to stdb for the vessel  O0


Derek
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Derek Warner

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JimG

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2022, 12:23:46 pm »

:o %) :embarrassed: ...I am unable to find any references that suggest the original setup for a wheel to a tiller was anything but a stdb turn of the wheel which resulted in anything but a turn to stdb for the vessel  O0


Derek
References I have on the construction of wooden warships show the linkage between the wheel and the tiller on the rudder was arranged such that turning the wheel to port moved the tiller to starboard so the ship turned to port and vice versa. Going further back in time before the wheel larger ships were steered by a whipstaff ( a vertical rod linked to the tiller and hinged at deck level), moving this to port turned the ship to port by moving the tiller to starboard. As merchant ships and warships were set up identically their steering would be the same. In peacetime sailors moved between merchant ships and warships all of the time so would expect the steering and rigging to be the same so no need to relearn their skills.) Probably was an easier time in warships as they had a much larger crew to handle the sails and they could be sure to be better fed than on a merchantman.
Jim
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derekwarner

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2022, 09:47:03 pm »

Courtesy of Wikipedia........

"On many vessels the helmsman stood facing the rear of the ship with the ship's wheel before him and the rest of the ship behind him—this still meant that the direction of travel of the wheel at its apex corresponded to the direction of turn of the ship. Having two wheels connected by an axle allowed two people to take the helm in severe weather when one person alone might not have had enough strength to control the ship's movements"

Derek

Some additional , but incomplete thoughts


https://garretthawkinsly.typepad.com/blog/2010/11/nautical-decor-the-evolution-of-the-ship-steering-wheel.html
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Derek Warner

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JimG

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2022, 10:31:47 pm »

Courtesy of Wikipedia........

"On many vessels the helmsman stood facing the rear of the ship with the ship's wheel before him and the rest of the ship behind him—this still meant that the direction of travel of the wheel at its apex corresponded to the direction of turn of the ship. Having two wheels connected by an axle allowed two people to take the helm in severe weather when one person alone might not have had enough strength to control the ship's movements"

Derek
I find this rather unlikely to be the case, the helmsman woluld be facing forwards allowing him to keep an eye on both the sails and the compass. All of the old photos I have seen have the helmsman behind or to the side of the wheel facing the bow. The old wheels were large diameter to allow more effort to be used and it would make sense to stand at the side when steering, this allowed for a second helmsman on the other side (again facing forwards) for rough weather. Warships often had a double wheel, one in front and one behind the barrel the tiler lines ran on, to allow for up to 4 helmsmen in rough conditions.
Jim
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derekwarner

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2022, 11:34:57 pm »

Hullo Jim.........I too found this rather questionable.........[however, for the record, we must remember the Wiki people or contributors to the boundless volumes are known to sometimes allow clouded content to be added to their pages]


1. suggesting that the first Helmsman faced the stern!..... :o  ??
2. like you, the images of twin wheels & two Helmsman who were always shown with each Helsman standing aside their respective wheel & each facing fwd, not standing fwd or aft of the wheel etc

Mr Hawkings blog suggests.....

" the Greenwich National Maritime Museum has a complete official record of the ship steering wheel's invention".....however concludes "it is not entirely clear how the ship wheel evolved during the 18th century :-X


Derek
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dougal99

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Re: Titanic - fascinating
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2022, 04:35:59 pm »

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