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Author Topic: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build  (Read 30002 times)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #100 on: February 10, 2018, 01:18:12 PM »

Hi All


So now the boiler is finished it was time to put the whole thing back together which looks like this








And next I started making a few modifications - starting with the throttle / lubricator set up.  This was due to the feed back from this forum and I wanted it to be right, so I changed the set up to one supplied by Clevedon Steam that allowed the lubricator to be in front of the throttle.











This set up works really nicely so it was worth doing.  The next modification was to the whistle in the funnel.  Unfortunately I discovered that when the whistle was sounded, sometimes it blew the burner out.  So to sort this out I decided to blow the steam out of the side of the funnel rather than inside it.  To do this I simply drilled and tapped two 3mm holes and tuned the whistle around. I also made a hole for the outlet.











But I guess most importantly heres a video of the steam plant up and running  O0   You will have to excuse my wittering on it  :embarrassed:


https://youtu.be/kfNlVzpBM74


So tomorrow I'm going to try and make another modification.  I have noticed that I am getting a bit too much back pressure in the separator and I want to reduce this.  I know that the problem is the motor exhaust so I'm going to try and re-route it and also make it out of a larger diameter tube.  I'll let you know how I get on.


Thanks for looking - Mark  :-)
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #101 on: February 11, 2018, 02:01:07 PM »

Well I said that I would update you


Disaster


After hours of trying different pipe bends etc I have managed to ruin the motor exhaust manifold  >>:-(   My fault entirely and I've realised that to join the motor to the separator the way that I need too I will have to use a flexible coupling.  Its not something that I wanted to do but I just cannot have the back pressure the way that it is.


I've emailed Graham Industries to see if they can supply me a replacement manifold but I've heard that they are not very good at answering them. So if anyone knows a supplier that may have an exhaust manifold please let me know.


On the positive side - thanks for the messages on youtube regarding the steam plant running  :-))


Oh well its only a minor set back but it may take time to get a replacement part.
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

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Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

IanJ

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2018, 03:37:46 PM »

Hi Mark,


I have been following your build with keen interest as my next step when I complete the "Marcher" build to assemble a steam plant & install it in a suitable hull. Very sorry to lean that  the exhaust manifold is damaged. If spares are difficult to obtain are you able to repair it or make a replacement?


If you are stuck I would be happy to have go at making a replacement at no cost just byway of helping a fellow modeller.


Cheers


Ian
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2018, 03:46:27 PM »

Hi Ian


Wow - see this is why I love this forum because help is always out there.  Ian I think that I will be okay but I cannot thank you enough for the offer.  Graham Industries has sold so many of these engines that I'm certain that I can get a replacement but I also know that it will take a while.


I was silver soldering very - very close to the fittings and I knew that I was taking a risk.  Some times you get away with it and other times .......well it just falls apart while your looking at it  {-)   I've had my fair share of luck so I cannot complain.  I'll let you know how I get on but thank you very much again  :-)   I'm looking forward though to seeing that lovely Marcher engine power one of your boats  :-))


Mark
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

T33cno

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2018, 04:12:51 PM »

Could just watch that video all day  O0
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IanJ

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #105 on: February 11, 2018, 07:11:04 PM »

Hi Mark,


I have been watching your latest video & a thought has just struck me. In order to reduce the number of bends from the exhaust manifold would it help if the manifold was simply turned around so the outlet was pointing the other way towards the separator?


Let me know if you still require any assistance.


Ian
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ooyah/2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #106 on: February 11, 2018, 09:42:41 PM »

Bonjour Mark,
Sorry, but you make a little mistake says one of my friends. In a closed hull, especially in a working boat the boiler should be covered by a skin of painted steel sheet. Wood is for open launches  ok2


Raphael,


I think that you are the one who has made a mistake, as when viewing several of your Y-Tube Video's there are at least 3- St Tugs with timber clad boilers which I assume are all yours.
It surely doesn't matter what the builders preference is in Lagging his boiler, in this case he has made an Excellent finish of the timber lagging.


George..
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southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #107 on: February 11, 2018, 10:51:05 PM »

Hi Mark I would advise using a lower melting  silver solder like plumbers use and a pinpoint torch the solder will not melt due to the lower temp exhaust.

Cheers
John
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #108 on: February 11, 2018, 11:57:53 PM »


One of the silver bearing solders like Stay-Brite might work it is 5%silver.
Gerald.
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rhavrane

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #109 on: February 12, 2018, 08:32:17 PM »

Bonjour George,
You are absolutely right, most of my closed boats have wooden boilers (bought like this), this is why I have been informed that I was wrong. And I fully agree with you, it does not matter  ok2
It is very difficult to find videos of real boilers, here examples of what I found : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0RO7OckmWE or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-ImwmHejDc or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJLkOGUH2Pc show that boilers are not like our ones.
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RaphaŽl
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #110 on: February 12, 2018, 10:36:20 PM »


Those boilers looked exactly like the ones I tended while working as a Boiler Operator, except ours had electric ignition.
Gerald.
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2018, 05:35:34 PM »

Hi All


Firstly thanks for the comments and the suggestions they are very helpful.  I've ordered a new manifold which will take about 2 - 3 weeks to arrive so I can't get too much done before then.


Ian you are right about turning the manifold around and this is exactly what I was trying to do, but its all so close together its very difficult which is why I did not go this route in the first place.  I would have achieved it though if I would have used a flexible pipe to connect the manifold to the separator which is the way I'm going to go now.


I have had a go at the other end of the exhaust pipe though which runs from the separator to the funnel.  I decided to use 3/16 tube for the exhaust which I guess is the equivalent in steam terms of a young lad putting a big bore exhaust on his Vauxhall Corsa  {-)


Using this larger tube caused me a few issues - firstly its really hard to manipulate without it collapsing even with the correct size benders.  Secondly I could not fit the tube through the funnel using fittings as the 3/16 fittings are huge.  So I resorted to simply running a nice straight pipe up the funnel with a nice swept bend on the bottom.








I then made the pipe from the separator using a much larger valve straight out the top of the separator.  This was then connected to the funnel by a flexible pipe.








Now its not as pretty as before  {:-{  but it will work much better than the last version especially when the engine exhaust manifold is a straight connection to the separator.  I think that I need to make a support for the long tube but as always I welcome your comments on what I hope is an improvement.  I think its a case of function over form.  I'll get another update when the manifold arrives and then I can get on with building the hull which is my favourite job  O0


Thanks for looking - Mark  :-)
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
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rhavrane

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2018, 08:17:24 PM »

Bonjour Mark,
My friend Emmanuel is liking challenges as you, he installed his TVR1A steam plant in a small and narrow boat  ok2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzolavGB5I
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #113 on: February 18, 2018, 09:18:21 PM »

Hi Mark you could bend the pipes neatly at both ends and connect them with silicon tube hidden under the decking just a thought

Cheers
John
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #114 on: February 25, 2018, 02:22:13 PM »

Well I've still had no joy getting a replacement manifold and I thinks its going to take time to get one.  So this weekend I spent far too many hours straightening the manifold and re-opening the outlet on the front cylinder.  Its actually come out ok but the front cylinder outlet is still slightly to small but its the best that I can do and also the flanges are now about 1/2 the thickness that they were before.  I also have some very painfully singed fingers as I had to keep re-heating the piece to get it to do anything but I'll get over it  {-)


Having said that it has allowed me to finish the pipework for the exhaust and if push comes to shove I can use this manifold but I'm still going to perceiver and try and get a replacement.  I would like to thank everyone for their input as the exhaust pipe is now half if its original length and has increased in diameter from 5/32 to 3/16 and the back pressure has all but gone.


A few pictures of the finished pipe work and underneath the short piece of silicone tube is brass tube that is only about 2mm apart so its a very good joint








And I've also made the pipe support for the exhaust and put a bend on the end as suggested by John which actually works really nicely











So that's it for the steam plant as it works very nicely and so does the RC gear.  Its now going to be fully stripped out and I can start building the actual boat so its back to the woodwork for me.  Now I'm a slow builder so please don't expect weekly updates but I will make sure that the entire build is on here as it progresses until it hits the water.


This has been my first live steam build and I can't thank everyone enough who has given me advice and encouragement.  I do have to say a special thank you to my friend George (Ooyah) who has answered my almost daily emails about technical problems that I just did not understand.  I learnt a lot and I just cannot thank him enough  :-))   Also Nigel at Pendle Steam who backs up his products like no one I've ever dealt with before.  I'll be getting my next boiler from him too.  Anyway enough of my rambling lets get on a build a boat  %%
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Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #115 on: February 25, 2018, 11:28:44 PM »

Hi Mark great job ,also may need some reinforcing at the bottom of the frames and or top bracing before planking
Cheers
John
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IanJ

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2018, 11:54:09 AM »

Hi Mark,


Tremendous work, the whole plant looks a delight. Trust you have taken lots of photos. Once dismantled, it would helpful to see some photos of the plant laid out on the bench.


Cheers


Ian
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #117 on: March 04, 2018, 02:22:29 PM »

Thanks for the comments  :-))


A little update today - Firstly I've removed all of the steam plant to get on with building the hull.  It looks so empty now and you just can't believe the amount of work thats already gone into this build looking at it now  {-)   It needed a good clean as it was covered in oil from being flung from the engine crankshaft and I've enlarged the holes in the bulkheads for the wiring.  They were 8mm but they are now 10mm as the servo connectors just fitted through and by the time its got two coats of resin on they probably would not fit so it was a precautionary job.











Next was to put the false decks back in to support the frames whilst the planking is carried out.  And this is where I discovered some problems that needed sorting out.  Where the bullheads have been left with no support for quite a few months and also had a lot of heat around them from the boiler testing they had moved.  Two of them quite considerably and they no longer fitted correctly in the false decks.  To solve this I used heat from a hot air gun and clamps to pull everything straight.  I did have to completely remove one of the ribs and re-set it.  I guess this is really par for the course as I've altered the kit extensively and its been bashed around too.  The false decks are removed after planking as discarded and the instructions suggest that they are nailed in but I used screws instead.  I also strengthen the whole structure by gluing in some extra supports.  It took me two full days to get the hull perfectly straight and aligned  :o











And then a great moment for me - I removed the hull from the building board where its been for months as now its time to sand the bulkheads into shape for the planks to fit snuggly.








Now I know a lot of builders hate this part of the build but for me this is what its all about.  I learnt from my last build that taking your time and getting this part absolutely spot on makes the rest of the build so much easier.  So I did a quick survey using a straight edge to see how all of the frames lined up and immediately found two low spots which would cause the planks to have spring in them.  I simply marked the low points - surprise, surprise one the low points was the frame that I had to re-set





And then simply glued and clamped some slivers of wood onto the low points to build them up.








There will be lots more of this kind of repair to be carried out to get the hull perfect, but these two areas were so obvious it seemed the natural place to start - and thats it for now.


Thanks for looking - Mark  :-)
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tghsmith

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2018, 03:56:10 PM »

looking great..you are very very correct ,time spent faring the frames is time well spent.. I've given the frame edges a coat of paint to sand away during the sanding process.. sanding using flexible wood strips with grades of sand paper attatched..high and low spot show up show up quickly..
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2018, 05:21:53 PM »

Thank you and thats the word I was looking for "Faring".  Yes it takes me quite a long time to get the faring right and I like to start at the keel and work my way down the frames.  The last time I used many strips of wood just like planks to see if there were any discrepancies between the frames until I got it just about right and I'm going to do the same this time too.  I really enjoy building the hull even though it can take a very long time to get it right.
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2018, 05:26:06 PM »

Oh I forgot to say that I've ordered some 1/4 x 1/8 brass rectangular bar from Maidstone Engineering to bond and screw to the keel for protection too.
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #121 on: March 11, 2018, 03:12:30 PM »

Another update from me - I wasn't sure whether or not to post this as I'm unsure how much detail people are interested in.  Let me know if its too much and I'll wait until more progress is made before posting again.


Firstly now that I'm building the hull I've been studying the plans that came with the kit.  To my dismay although they are marked 1:1 the plans supplied are not to scale.  Its not possible to take measurements from the drawings which is a real shame so instead I'm having to guess.  I don't think that it would take much for the manufacturer to get something as fundamental as this correct.  I think that I personally will be okay but someone just starting out in boat building would struggle as the written instructions are at best vague too.  This is definitely a kit for someone with experience (Says the fella who's only built one boat before  {-) )


Anyway I have been working away faring the frames and I'm finding lots of low spots that need building up.  Its a simple process of just gluing some extra wood on to the frame and then sanding back.  I would personally like to thank they various coffee suppliers in the UK for the wood that they have supplied me free of charge in the form of coffee stirrers.  They are perfect for the job but they must be clamped very tight as some of these repairs to the frames are just slivers really.








And once sanded look like you have done nothing at all.  But this slow process pulls everything straight and makes sure that the planks when fitted are not sprung and fit snuggly against the frames








Then its just a case of faring the frames little by little until its just about right.  Here's a picture of one side of the stern roughed out and the other side un-touched.  I say roughed out as its no where near the finished article yet.





Here's another example of a low point.  Both sides of the stern are now roughed out but the centre of the keel is about 0.5mm low.  Its really tempting to just carry on sanding but that would change the shape of the frames so they needed building up.





And once sanded it looks like it should and brings the keel up level and straight.  This will stop a dip in the planks at the stern and make the planking easier in the long run (I hope)








So loads more to do as I've only just started really but I hope this is not too much detail


Thanks - Mark  :-)
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pendlesteam

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #122 on: March 11, 2018, 09:04:12 PM »

Fantastic work Mark - If I could only work with wood!! I would like a big, open top launch to fit one of my boilers and show off all I can, but alas I build boats like you probably build boilers. Keep the updates coming.
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jpdenver

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2018, 02:04:47 AM »

Mark,

I am late to this build, but as I am just beginning my latest attempt,
I will be watching how an experienced builder does the various tasks, before I attempt them.

I will be posting my meager attempt as I go.

Please keep up the level of detail. You will not bore any one here, and
it will help all of us less experienced builders.

Regards,
Jim Pope
Denver, Colorado
USA
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IanJ

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #124 on: March 12, 2018, 11:47:18 AM »

Hi Mark, Please keep the posts coming.


Regards the actual scale of the plans; the photo-copying process corrupts and alters  the true scale by a small %. Therefore a photo-copy of a photo-copy can be 'out' by a fair amount. I believe the error is one of enlargement. On some plans I have seen a datum line line, say 100mm long printed on the plan that allows the plan (or sections of it) to be photo-copied at the correct scale by altering the printer settings accordingly. Which is handy if you need to produce templates  or take measurements directly off the plan etc.
Are you able mark a known dimension on the plan byway of creating a datum and photo-copy that section or sections. It is then a matter of trial & error with the printer settings until you get the datum coming out at the right length. Just a thought.
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