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Author Topic: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build  (Read 57833 times)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #350 on: April 09, 2020, 01:12:50 pm »

Thanks bfgstew  :-))   I may make a model shipwright yet - well in another decade or two!


I've now sorted all of the piercings on one side of the boat.  As I thought its very very time consuming but hey I've got time on my hands.  Its mainly because of the thickness of the bulwarks which are just over 5mm thick.  I like the box wood too it holds a sharp edge very well.














In the kit they supply some really nice brass castings for the oval holes.  You get one dead straight one and two that are cast at an angle





Once in I think they look pretty smart but I need to dull them down a bit first








You probably also noticed that the hull is now open as I've cut away the unnecessary deck beams.  So I'll carry on doing the same on the other side.


Now I do have a bit of a dilemma  - I knew that when I epoxied the outside of the hull the epoxy that I used was not water proof and bloomed when it got wet.  I used this epoxy because it was literally water thin and made the job so much easier.  The plan was to seal it with a matt clear coat such as Rustoleum polyurethane to seal it up.  But I've now done a couple of experiments with two different matt coats and I must say just how underwhelming they have both been.  One was rock hard and chipped easily and the other just doesn't seen to go off properly.  I think my idea was probably not a good one now but I need to come up with a solution.  I'm seriously thinking about giving the hull a coat of ZPoxy finishing resin to seal it up properly.  This will involve loads of work to smooth off and will be made harder as the rudder is now fitted.  I would appreciate any thoughts on this from you all?


Cheers Mark  :-)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #351 on: April 10, 2020, 01:58:17 pm »

A quick update


I've now cut the holes on the other side of the bulwarks and I'm glad that it out of the way - a very laborious job!








I'm going to have two jobs on the go now.  I need to get a finished coat onto the hull all over to give some protection once its all sanded nice and smooth.  Having thought about my epoxy issue overnight I think I will give the hull a coat of ZPoxy even though there's loads of work involved.  I'm also going to start the main rail which is quite a piece of timber at 4mm x 8mm final size.  I'm using some 4mm x 10mm mahogany so that I've got some wiggle room getting the shape right.


Mark

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #352 on: April 11, 2020, 09:56:55 pm »

Wow Mark I just had the pleasure of discovering your thread on the Anteo tug build and I must say I have never seen as much care and excruciating detail as what I have read here. The planking was amazing, that it is double planking is even more so. The prep for the steam plant is also really wonderful. You have made a lot of fans along the way and I am happy to become one.


I have building a tug in mind but it won't rival this one!


I do have a suggestion for your epoxy woe. I use 5:1 WEST epoxy for cedar strip-plank hull construction and it is really good stuff. It is very hard and responds well to sanding with no load up. After the planking is faired with grades of sandpaper, down to 220 or even 320, the hull is painted with epoxy again and a build-up is started but not yet smooth, so more sanding after cure. Maybe even wet sand but no break-through. No remaining brushstrokes or lumps. Now the final step and here's what might work for you at this point:  after you have sanded and prepped the existing coating, the final epoxy coat is made by squeegeing on a thin coat and then immediately wiping it all off with paper towel, so only a wet "smear" coating remains, and this is allowed to cure. (squeegee used so only a minimal coat is applied) No worry about the paper fuzz that might remain since it sands easily. Then after minimal sanding, say 320 grit, this can be repeated. Light sanding so no break-through. You can do this a couple of time and and get a good epoxy coat, and then as the final step, apply a coat of high gloss marine varnish (I use Z-Spar but Epihanes would be good too).


I have no experience with this technique on top of whatever finish you used, but assuming it is a good bond to the hull, and the blushing is sanded out,  the overcoats of epoxy and varnish should preclude any further blush or bloom or water effects of any kind. I also believe that what makes it work is that the 5:1 epoxy is very hard when cured so it sands smooth without any trouble. Whether it works with your Zpoxy i cannot tell. (I don't think 2:1 epoxy will have the same hardness) But the wipe-it-off technique will definitely makes things easier. And a spar varnish coat is a super way to top it off.


Once again, BIG compliments on the quality of your model build which I must say is very inspiring. As I get along on the idea for my St Andrew (Floataboat) tug I will keep in mind some of the work you have detailed.  I will follow what remans of your build and the steam-up with great interest.



Carl Miller
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #353 on: April 12, 2020, 09:54:53 am »

Hi Carl - Many thanks for your kind comments its very much appreciated and so is your advice regarding the epoxy resin.


My issue with the resin is that it blooms when wet and I knew this when I applied it.  The finish that it has given is really nice and its great to work with too.  The plan was simply to give the hull a spray coat of polyurethane to stop any water getting through to the resin underneath.  This is going to be a matt finish rather than a glossy one.


But having experimented with these polyurethane sprays I'm worried that they are not hard wearing enough and that over time it may get damaged and allow water through.  If this happens I'm not sure whether the bloom will remain localised to that spot or travel underneath the rest of the polyurethane coat.


So yesterday I sanded the entire hull down including the decks to prep it for a coat of resin that I know is very hard and completely waterproof.  And would you believe it has to be applied exactly the way you have mentioned.  I was hoping not to have to do this but I really don't want to take the chance of bloom occurring.  I will probably get away with one coat as its still going to get a coat of polyurethane.  If it gets through that it deserves to bloom  {-)


Mark

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #354 on: April 12, 2020, 10:13:11 am »

Bonjour Mark,
I have no experience with epoxy resin and have discovered recently that one of my babies has a porous hull :((
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ck-aauJ--Y


Carl is right and, based on experienced friends feedback, I would add a very light fibre glass fabric 15 - 25 g / m2. Easy to sand and after painting, your boat hull will be permanently protected even in the event of a slight impact.
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RaphaŽl
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #355 on: April 12, 2020, 10:49:33 am »

Bonjour Mark,
I have no experience with epoxy resin and have discovered recently that one of my babies has a porous hull :((
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ck-aauJ--Y


Carl is right and, based on experienced friends feedback, I would add a very light fibre glass fabric 15 - 25 g / m2. Easy to sand and after painting, your boat hull will be permanently protected even in the event of a slight impact.


Hi Raphael I'm sorry to hear about your boat being porous I really hope that you get it sorted out  :-)


I also agree that glass fibre fabric is essential - I have used a 49g/m2 fabric already and the hull is pretty tough and should withstand a knock or two  :-))

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #356 on: April 12, 2020, 11:02:05 am »

How about a nice coat or 12 of epifanes varnish to the outside?
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #357 on: April 12, 2020, 12:20:36 pm »

How about a nice coat or 12 of epifanes varnish to the outside?


I've never heard of this before so I googled it and it looks like really great stuff.  If only I hadn't already spent £30 on spray matt polyurethane  :((   One to remember for my next build  :-)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #358 on: April 12, 2020, 03:18:17 pm »

I have got some more done today


Firstly I've started on the main rail so I made a template to work from to get around the stern - I would like to thank Amazon for the cardboard!





I then drew the inner part of the bulwarks and also the rail at its final size - well actually my drawing is a bit inaccurate so its slightly wider than the actual size  :embarrassed:





And then marked out the sections to make the curve - the wood is 10mm x 4mm and as you can see not quite symmetrical.  I'll just say that this tug has had a bump or two in its time  {-)





So lots of cuts to make and I'll glue it together on the template so hopefully it will fit ok before final sanding


I've also masked up and sprayed the stem so thats another part finished








So tomorrow I'm going to coat the outside of the hull in epoxy below the metalwork and make a start on cutting out the main rail


Mark  :-)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #359 on: April 13, 2020, 01:52:17 pm »

Hi All


Its been a pretty good day today  :-)   I masked off all of the brass and put the coat of ZPoxy resin on the hull.  Its like painting with treacle but its on now.  I just had to be careful not to get any down the rudder tube.  So I'm no longer worried about the blooming issue but it does need sanding flat and also a coat of matt polyurethane.





And while I was at it I also gave the anchor hawsers a coat too.  The mahogany looks nice and they should look good with the anchors glued in





Next was onto starting the main rail - so I cut all of the bits out on the table saw and then got gluing.  So far so good I just hope that it releases ok from the cardboard that I glued it together on.  Lots of mad angles  %%











And finally the aging process on the brass hawsers has turned out pretty good too.  They look a lot better than when they were all shiny





I can't do anymore today as things need to dry  :-))


Mark  :-)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #360 on: April 14, 2020, 03:28:42 pm »

Hi All


More done today - Firstly I released the stern rail from the template and just knocked off the roughest edges.  It fits ok and looks promising but I can't shape it properly until the rest of the rail is in and glued on








I then started what I knew would be the hardest part of the rail which is where it sweeps up towards the forecastle deck.  It has to fit very tightly or its going to look very bad.  I tried a few different methods like soaking with water and then bending it over and aeropicolla iron but that didn't work.  I also tried making the bend out of a laminated section and then cut it to shape but that looked awful too.


In the end I made a jig, soaked the wood and used a hot air gun to bend it around.  It took a few attempts to get it right but this timber is thick hardwood and just did not want to play!








I managed to get the shape pretty much about there but to glue it in place tightly I had to make a mega clamp  %%   A couple of toggle clamps to make sure its in the right place whilst the glue dries








And finally I mounted the anchors into the hawsers and gave them a coat of matt polyurethane.  I'm really pleased with these and should look great once I glue them to the hull








So tomorrow I'll carry on with the main rail.  I was going to flat the hull down ready for it final coat but I'm going to leave this until the rail is finished as the hull is getting knocked around a bit at the moment


Cheers Mark  :-)

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #361 on: April 14, 2020, 03:55:37 pm »

Regarding the stern coaming, once again you've come up with a good solution and, once trimmed, should look good.
As for the upsweep on the for'd section, your photos show just how thick that wood is. You certainly don't give in easily do you?


Regards,
Ray.
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rhavrane

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #362 on: April 14, 2020, 04:19:00 pm »

Bonjour Mark,
As you have a great talent and unfortunately a lot of time at home I guess, these anchors deserve a special function.


Why would not you install a little RC electric windlass ? I have one to be repaired on one of my tugs and it seems to be easy to install if you choose a simple solution without electronic stops at each end.
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #363 on: April 14, 2020, 04:38:20 pm »

Regarding the stern coaming, once again you've come up with a good solution and, once trimmed, should look good.
As for the upsweep on the for'd section, your photos show just how thick that wood is. You certainly don't give in easily do you?


Regards,
Ray.


Hi Ray - thanks mate  :-))   I tend to see these things as a challenge which is just as well really  {-)   I'm quite new to bending wood so I'm discovering just what can be done.  I'm pleasantly surprised just how we can manipulate wood without too much effort.  I've just got to do the other side now!!

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #364 on: April 14, 2020, 04:43:20 pm »

Bonjour Mark,
As you have a great talent and unfortunately a lot of time at home I guess, these anchors deserve a special function.


Why would not you install a little RC electric windlass ? I have one to be repaired on one of my tugs and it seems to be easy to install if you choose a simple solution without electronic stops at each end.


Bonjour Raphael - Now I did consider this as the windlass that is suppled could easily be converted into one that works.  The reason I decided not too was because I would need to punch holes into the hull that just don't need to be there.  Its a bit like the forward port holes as they are also supposed to be drilled out and the the brass surrounds installed.  I will simply paint the area dark grey and slide the brass parts over once I have thinned them out a bit.  I like my boats to be as water tight as possible.

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #365 on: April 14, 2020, 07:20:08 pm »

Mark


Still it's amazing to watch this build and the supreme skill going into Anteo. It's a pleasure to watch a master at work.


Just one question on the part of the rail that sweeps up and gave you a hard time with the laminations-- wondering why you didn't just make those two short pieces out a solid block? I guess if no material available is one possibility. Or maybe because it is less realistic.


I am sure because you mentioned it elsewhere you soaked the wood strips when yoj tried the lamination, but did you add ammonia to the soak, or use Windex?  This softens the wood in a very short time  and you can progressively massage the wood around a mandrel to preshape the curve, then when you lay it up with a little clamping there might be a lot less argument, and you get the exact shape you want. I guess it wouldn't work so well on a thick piece as you used-- that's quite a curve!


Seems unlikely you would be unaware of this technique, however,,,


BW i really admire your Destako clamps, in the mega-application, how very clever


-Carl
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #366 on: April 14, 2020, 09:01:26 pm »

Hi Carl


Honestly I tend to just try and solve each problem as I go along which actually is why I love building ships.  To try and answer your question - when I say I laminated some pieces; what I did was glue a load of pieces together to make a really thick piece of wood.  I then thought that I would just mark out the curve and cut it out so that it fitted and then sand it down to the required thickness.  This just did not work  :((   I don't know if I was rushing or the fact that my little band saw is not that accurate but it just looked wrong.  Not only that you could see that the grain in the wood was all over the place.


Now I have tried using ammonia before and I have had some really good results too and recommend this to everyone.  But I also found that it can change the colour of the wood. 


Because the rail is supposed to be a uniform one piece colour I was reluctant to try this.  I really have had to force this wood into shape - it makes you wince a bit because not only am I bending it I am stretching it too.  I have never bent such thick wood before I just need to replicate what I have already done and thats the hardest part.  My work is 2 parts engineering and 5 parts luck.  Cheers for all of your input into this build  :-))


Mark

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #367 on: April 14, 2020, 10:15:20 pm »

Oh I guessed you would have laminated the strips around the form you made. No cutting. Then all you'd see is the edges of the lams but still that would be unlike the rest of the rail which I guess you are going to varnish. So your one-piece super-bend is a success!


I know what you mean one challenge at a time, sort of make it up as you go along.


Now we'll see how you form the bow curves. Boat is looking terrific.


-cm
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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #368 on: April 14, 2020, 10:21:03 pm »

Hi,


When your doing your gunwhales and using a card template you can put sellotape down (carefully), cheap parcel tape works also as it's not opaque and you can still see the marks easy. Not found any glues yet that sticks to it! It's an old trick. Your work so far is awesome though!


Rich
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #369 on: April 15, 2020, 04:55:37 pm »

Carl and Rich thanks for your comments - You know what I've used that sellotape trick before and completely forgot about it this time - doh!!!  I was really worried about having to draw it all again in case I had measured something wrong.......Thanks for reminding me  :-))


So today I removed the clamps and tidied it up a bit and so far its looking ok.  I may have placed it slightly wrong but I'm going to have to live with it now





Next I bent some more mahogany for the other side and swivelled my mega clamp over - This technique works so well








Then I glued on the stern rail which fits pretty good





Another day another jig  {-)   This one is to bend the rail for the forecastle deck as nothing is straight on this tug





And for the rest of the day I've been piecing and gluing the forecastle rail into place.  It looks rough but it needs loads of shaping to get it right once the glue is dry.  Its also been cut down to 8.5mm wide which is nearer to its 8mm final width.  I guessed that it would save me a lot of sanding if i did this now.




















Tomorrow I plan on getting the rest of the rail glued on and hopefully start shaping it up too


Cheers Mark  :-)

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #370 on: April 15, 2020, 08:04:39 pm »

Your methods for shaping wood are great. Your clamping methods look solid as well  O0


Regards,
Ray.


Note :In the last photo I thought you had suffered damage to the hull - turns out it's just a reflection  %)
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #371 on: April 15, 2020, 09:09:03 pm »

Your methods for shaping wood are great. Your clamping methods look solid as well  O0


Regards,
Ray.


Note :In the last photo I thought you had suffered damage to the hull - turns out it's just a reflection  %)


Cheers Ray wood is such a nice thing to work with - there are now 4 coats of epoxy on this hull and cloth and I reckon I could throw it out of a second floor window and it would bounce or damage the floor  {-)

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #372 on: April 16, 2020, 12:32:31 am »

On bending the cockpit coaming on Wear I tried ammonia and failed miserably. I next tried window cleaning spray, the name escapes me but it was blue. I used a swingbin about 12Ē square, placed the mahogany stock (about 3Ē wide) middled across the top and put a house brick in the middle. Every hour throughout the day I gave it a good spray. Next morning the brick was on the bottom of the bin. On removing the stock was set with a beautiful bend. I rinsed it and let it dry. When I came to fit it when clamping up it cracked in the centre of the curve so I wicked some cyo into the crack and completed the clamping. The crack on completion was invisible. On my second launch I had no mahogany so I used a 1mm birch ply and 1/8Ē balsa laminate with a half round Tasmanian oak cap. This was a long process but when stained looked just as good as Wear.
Jerry.

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #373 on: April 16, 2020, 05:49:57 pm »

Hi Jerry - I remember you telling me about how you did this when we met up  :-))   and it did fit perfectly on your boat too.  Wow that seems like such a long time ago now!!!


Another day and yet another jig - this time to get around the top of the long side rails.  I needed to get this right as it would be a huge waste of wood otherwise.  Both sides at the front were pretty much identical








Which I cannot say the same for the stern as it took all day to get them right.  This was probably one of the hardest jobs on the build so far.





Anyway both sides are on now so the rough stage of the rails are finished so I need to shape them up when its all dry








Doesn't seem like much but thats a full days work there!


Cheers Mark  :-)

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #374 on: April 17, 2020, 03:10:22 pm »

Hi All


I'm a bit chuffed this afternoon - the rail is finished and I'm a bit made up the way its turned out.  This is one happy builder  O0























I now need to have a good think about what to do next so I'll dig the plans out.  I think I will epoxy the deck and rail to protect it first, then fit the anchors and spray the hull matt.  I'll have to have a look


Cheers Mark
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