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Author Topic: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build  (Read 30327 times)

Bernhard

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2018, 11:34:15 AM »

 :-))  ,,,looking great,,
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southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2018, 11:59:29 AM »

hi Mark does the boiler have extra support besides the bolts in the centre ? it is usual to have the boiler supported by a cradle n both ends also the piping appears to be brass or is it the camera flash .I hope that I don,t appear to be pickish but I do have a few years experience with model steam and some things just jump out so keep up the excellent work as I am in a similar situation with my Joffre build
Cheers
John
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2018, 12:37:43 PM »

Thanks Bernhard  :-)


Hi John the boiler was made with built in feet that have a 2BA thread in them.  They are very substantial and Nigel at Pendle Steam told me that they are very difficult from an engineering point of view to get right.  It really is absolutely solid on the base.  Also you are spot on regarding the pipework.  Its all brass and pleasure to work with as long as its kept annealed properly  :-))


Mark
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

rhavrane

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2018, 01:00:31 PM »

Bonjour Mark,
You are the one who builds, you know what is possible or not so I fully understand your answer. Next time, choose a larger boat  ;)
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RaphaŽl
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2018, 01:06:12 PM »


 {-)  You are so right there Raphael this really is a shoe horn job but its getting there  :-))

Moving onto the gas tank I have started with fitting a gas shut off valve should anything go wrong.  This part was supplied by Jerry at Clevedon Steam who I have found to give great service and back up on what he sells.  I would really recommend this supplier.  I did modify the mount that comes supplied so that it bolted directly to the servo and I also altered the stainless steel servo mount as the locating holes will not be accessible once the deck is fitted.  I re-drilled these so that they will be.








It was then I realised that I had placed the gas tank mount too far forward and that the gas tank outlet valve would just about foul on the deck opening above.  There was nothing for it but to remove it  >>:-(




And then make another which was about 10mm further towards the stern and also repair the damage to the keel.





With the gas tank now in its correct position I connected the gas pipework through a forrest regulator.  It certainly was tricky piping this part as not only are some of the bends awkward they have to be accessible to fit once the deck is in place.  The pipework does keep the tank very stable which was something that I was hoping for.

















I'll get another update next week - Mark  :-)
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

derekwarner

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2018, 11:10:37 PM »

Morning Mark.....after viewing your gas tubing %) I suspect you may have had a previous life in miniature instrumentation installation  ok2 

Even with my modified 1/8" tube Du-Bro bender, [with one aluminium handle unscrewed] I cannot achieve 2 stage compound bends as you show, and the bend set lengths is governed by the set of the bender.....I am sure a number of members would be interested in the bending tools you are using

Have you chosen an alternate tube material for the gas lines?

We also see the pilot signal for the gas regulator is steam @ ~~ 140 degrees C and accept that this will condense to ~~100 degrees C, however an alternate pilot of water from the lower boiler is available @ ~~ 80 degrees C...or a little friendlier on the Neoprene diaphragm in the regulator

Derek

PS...I think we will just have to wait & see what will be removable....and what fixed <*<
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Derek Warner

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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2018, 09:34:49 AM »

Hi Derek I use the same pipe benders as you and sometimes a spring. To get a close set in the pipe you have to bend it slightly out of alignment. Then when itís out of the tool make sure itís still annealed and then manipulate it straight by hand. If you need to make two bends very close to each other you must not let the tool drag the pipe in. You need to hold the pipe as well as the tool to make sure that it goes around the former correctly. 


The pipe that Iíve used is 1/8 brass and it bends easily enough. Another thing I always do is measure the pipe through itís centres rather than the edges if that makes sense. As for the regulator itís installed as per the manufacturers instructions and thatís all I know about it really. Iíve yet to see if it actually works


Mark
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2018, 04:14:32 PM »

Hi All here's the next update; firstly the bad news I've just realised that I've incorrectly piped up the gas regulator.  The burner and tank connections are the wrong way around so I will have to rectify that sooner rather than later.  I've ordered some more 1/8th brass pipe to sort it out.  It won't take  long but that will teach me to read the instructions properly  :embarrassed:


Now onto the hot pipe insulation as I've been thinking about this for quite a while.  I have never been a fan of wrapping the pipe in string as to get a good finish it seems to me that it takes a lot of effort.  Many coats of plaster, followed by lots of sanding and then at the end its brittle and cracks easily.  I have seen some really lovely well executed examples of this technique but time is the one thing that I don't have lots of so I wanted to find a simple and quick solution.


After having spoken to a couple of experienced steam modellers about my idea to use silicone pipe I decided to give it a go.  I thought of silicone as its a good insulator and does not absorb water like string can.  So I did a bit of digging and discovered that silicone comes in different cure types for different applications.  It just so happens that platinum cured silicone comes in various diameters in white and does not degrade or discolour over time.


So here's what I did.  Firstly cut the silicone pipe down its entire length and then wrap it around the pipe.  Then glue it back together with a glue called Silpoxy which sets in about 15 minutes.  I found that its easiest to do a short piece of the insulation at a time and hold it in place with tie wraps.  Then simply work along the pipe and once the glue is set just trim the ends.  Anyway enough waffling from me have a look at the pictures as they tell the story better.























I'm really pleased with the results and its does insulate very nicely.  Its very quick and easy but the down side is that the Silpoxy is very expensive for what it is.  Its £10 plus £10 postage for some reason  {:-{   However the time saved and durability is probably worth the cost.


Thanks for looking and later in the weekend I'll post how I modified the motor so that it could be reversed via a servo.  Well my take on it anyway.


Mark  :-)
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

ooyah/2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2018, 04:26:12 PM »

Hi Mark,


What an excellent way to insulate the pipes and it looks good as well, what do you use to clean the Silicone after having dirty greasy fingers all over it.,
or do you need to have clean fingers to start with ?


Your pics explain a lot.


George.
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2018, 04:33:19 PM »

Hi ya George


I have found that white spirit works well but the best cleaner by far is good old fairy liquid.  It brings it up like new  ok2   One thing I forgot to mention was to remove as much excess glue before it sets.  Its difficult to remove once its gone off and takes a sharp scalpel to remove in it.


Mark




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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

bfgstew

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2018, 06:13:34 PM »

Just picking my jaw off the floor Mark.
That is a seriously lovely piece of work.
I was wondering how you were going to insulate the pipes and your solution is fantastic.
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2018, 09:08:24 PM »

Thanks Stuart but to be honest I don't think that this is a new idea and I'm certain that its been tried before.  But before I tried it I ran it by some members of our forum to see if they thought that it would be possible.  They thought that it would be so I just delved a little deeper and I got the encouragement that I needed to really give it a go.  Luckily it worked out - and I can't emphasise the word luckily enough.  The supplier of the silicone also proved to be a very good source of information and was extremely helpful  :-))
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

derekwarner

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2018, 10:56:30 PM »

Goodness, not only is the tubing bent with great layout & accuracy, now this alternate insulation appears so tidy with apparent ease and speed of application....10/10 Mark  :-))

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2018, 04:55:32 PM »

Thanks Derek this build really is a work in progress and is changing all of the time mainly based on feedback from this forum.  I'm still trying to move the lubricator in front of the throttle but I'll keep you updated.


Onto the motor - I've seen quite a few different examples of converting the hackworth gear so that it can be moved by a servo and I've always thought that simple = good.


I stripped the motor down and drilled out and tapped the hackworth mechanism so that it would accept a 3mm stainless steel stud and then screwed a snap link onto the back.  I also needed to turn the detent bar around to allow for a smooth operation and I drilled and tapped a 2mm hole to fit a bolt which acts as a stop.  I read on this forum somewhere that if the actuating arm moves too low it may possibly bend the valve spindles.  I don't know if this is correct but I did it anyway.  I then simply moved the whole mechanism to one side so that it slid easily up and down the smooth side of the detent bar.











Now I can sum this first effort up in one word - FAIL!!!  Unfortunately when I went to put the cylinders back on the 3mm stud was in the way so moving it all to one side simply will not work.  I found the solution but modifying another snap link which allowed me to centralise everything again.











I'm glad to say this solution works very nicely  :-))   Its easy to do and sturdy; if I was doing it again I think that I would use 2mm studding as that would be ample.


Next was a modification to the hull to get the new mechanism in with the little bit of clearance too.








Which was then connected to a operating servo; I made the servo arm a little longer as the throw on the hackworth gear is long.  It all seems to work very nicely and I'm hoping that by keeping it simple I won't have too many issues once its on the water.











Next was to fit a servo for the throttle.  I have used some really nice stainless steel servo mounts that are available from Clevedon Steam.











And finally the boat so far with all of the hot pipework insulated including the motor manifolds.





The next job is to modify the funnel so that it fits the model and also run the exhaust up it.


Thanks for looking - Mark  :-)
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

bfgstew

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2018, 05:17:43 PM »

Think this deserves a place in the masterclasses Mark........ O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2018, 07:45:37 PM »

Hang on mate lets not get ahead of ourselves as theres not a plank on it yet.  It might end up like a Chinese junk that floats like a U boat   %%   Albeit a steam powered U boat / junk hybrid  {-)   Thanks for the nice comments though  :-))
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2018, 09:53:19 PM »

Great job Mark have you worked out what ballast she may need, need room for that too
Cheers
John
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2018, 10:35:29 PM »

Hi John


I think that it will need very little ballast which is a concern.  If my guesstimates are correct I believe that it will need about 0.75kg of ballast.  The steam plant has been getting heavier as its gone along and this is due to my lack of experience between what I thought I required and what actually is required.  I honestly don't know but I'll find out soon enough.  Raphael summed it it by saying that maybe I should have built a bigger boat.  I do think that I will be okay - but only just.


Mark
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2018, 10:51:52 PM »

Not to worry too much as these tugs sat very low in the water so as long as you can drain the decks quick enough all should be ok as I have seen quite a few similar tug models that do not look the part sitting too high in the water and bobbing around.
Cheers
John
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2018, 10:56:02 PM »

Thanks John I really do hope so and I agree with you tugs sit very low in the water.  Its one of those things I've made my calculations and I hope that I'm right...............if not its going electric  {-)
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

rhavrane

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2018, 11:08:10 PM »

Bonjour Mark,I agree with John, this type of boat can be low on the water so, like on my last tug you can use lead sheets at bilge cut to the dimensions you wish to make a ballast : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVfY9GM4RXQ
Example : The tug JAN, even without superstructure, is very low without a problem : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbvYKKf8tJE
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RaphaŽl
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2018, 02:37:28 PM »

Hi Raphael thanks for the links they are interesting  :-))   The Jan tug as you say is very low but it looks good for being so low.  I think that John is right the decks will need good drainage.
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2018, 10:35:40 PM »

Great looking tug JAN Raphael and it can be seen that cavitation would occur if she was higher in the water ,I use lead shot in  flexible bags also divers belts can be picked up reasonably cheap at markets ,etc ,keep up the good work Mark .
Cheers
John
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southsteyne2

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2018, 11:02:01 PM »

Hi Mark here is a link that shows an nice example of your build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_D7PTCHRh8
Cheers
John
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Mark T

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Re: Panart/Mantua Anteo Steam Tug Build
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2018, 06:57:07 PM »

Thanks for the link John they really are a very nice boat when finished - mines a long way off  :embarrassed:


Moving on with the build its funnel time!  The funnel that came with the Pendle boiler was a bit too short for the model and I needed to extend it by 190mm.  Now knowing nothing about whether this would affect the boiler performance I asked both George and Nigel at Pendle Steam if this would cause me any issues.  The advice was simple - it will be fine but when you light the boiler keep the gas as low as possible so that the flame drops back to the burner - as its got a long way to go  %%


I ordered some 28mm copper pipe and cut and bent it to suit the model.  Have you ever tried bending 28mm pipe with a spring!!!  Its difficult especially when my blow torch would not anneal it properly.  Anyway I made the exhaust pipe for the motor and ran it up the funnel.








Which now looks like this on the boiler





I then completed the exhaust pipework to complete the circuit and insulated the pipework with silicone as before.  Here's a few pictures of how it all came out.























Thanks for looking  - Mark  :-)
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Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html
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