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Author Topic: The old B's new ST Cervia build  (Read 11359 times)

Baldrick

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2018, 02:49:49 PM »

Baldrick.....I have a slightly different take on your Plan set


The oval shape superimposed AFT of the engine roof level oval simply represents the shear or angle of the chimney toward the AFT end of the vessel. The blackened area is simply the only overlapping profile between the two and is of no consequence in any build


The yellow lined oval is the actual inter funnel casing, the green lined oval is the outer shell casing of the funnel. The is an air space between the  two was also used for modest heat exchangers or water heaters


If weight was not an issue, an internal oval formed pasti-card representation [sprayed flat black on both sides] would be scale like


You mention that Cervia was oil fired, but was capable of a relatively simple modification to be coal fired. So the designers included a coal fired chimney


Naturally a hand fed coal fired boiler required a larger volume of air draw & hence the larger surfaced area [and taller] chimneys over a pressurized oil fired boilers etc


Derek

  Yes , thanks Derek I have it in my mind clear now.  Sad Thing, in my heyday I used to be a design draughtsman.
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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2018, 12:01:18 PM »

Hi Baldrick,
 Like you I was a design draughtsman in my earlier years, about 50 years ago I made "CREVIA" from Vic Smeads free plan and progressed as far as making the frames but at 28" I decided to redraw the plan to 3/8" to ! ft to give a 42" O/All length and power the model by 2- Motor cycle 6 V batteries with a blower mother from a Bus..
The model was about 60 % made before being mothballed for 30 years before resurrecting it and installing a D10 engine with a Marine Scotch return flue boiler, I would think it's about 80% completed with still some detail to finish but unfortunately I don't have the space to complete it nor do I have the inclination to do so, so it will be left as is, it still performs well.


I like you wondered at the beginning what the lip at the funnel top was for but soon realised when installing the steam plant it was ideal for making an air space around the funnel.  The funnel was made with 1/32" ply and I made a liner out of printers Litho plate which has served the purpose well, so I guess that I arrived at the reason for the lip by accident.


Do you by any chance know if she was launched as a coal burner or an oil burner, when I built the superstructure I made the hatches as coaling hatches, which may be wrong ?


Keep up the good work of your build, I wish that I had the skill to work with wood but prefer to butcher metal. Here are a couple of pics of the funnel and liner.


George.


P.S.  Did you know that CERVIA is in trouble at present  (https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2018/11/27/ramsgate-rnli-at-work-to-keep-steam-tug-cervia-afloat-as-she-takes-on-water/  )



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tugmad

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2018, 12:09:46 PM »

She was built as an oil burner, but had the timber coaling hatches fitted over the bunker tops to cover the access holes and fillers.
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Baldrick

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2018, 02:45:26 PM »

Hi George thank you for your interesting reply , the bunkering as tugmad says. However the Vic Smeed drg does not show the hatch covers but indicates the tank tops and manholes , but it does show the ledges for the covers (wondered what they were ) perhaps the covers were not in place when VS saw it. I have built it without the covers ,  {:-{  .
Looking at your plan view photo, the shape at the flue top is obvious , what threw me was the tapering ellipse on the drawing which is not visually correct but a  graphic interpretation that the surface plane of the top is not flat but inclined , albeit only 6 deg.
 Shame about Cervia's bottom problem , just hope she is not going to become a static dry display. We have a separate thread running on this .

Cheers
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Baldrick

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #79 on: December 26, 2018, 05:00:56 PM »




 Being Xmas and done the family visiting bit I thought time to get back to modelling . So its make a ladder to get up the funnel time . After the prerequisite think about it phase, decided on brass wire and soldering.  Had the Dremel gas torch/ soldering tool for a while now but not used it much , found it a bit of an animal but now just about getting the hang of it and liking it . Igniting it was my problem , operating the small latch, pressing the fire up to the piezo and then getting the valve to sustain flame is a bit of a caper and it is the lack of decent instructions, just having diagrams which do not fully explain the operation did not help. However now I have it sorted I can recommend it.






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Baldrick

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2018, 05:21:54 PM »






   Images also show a rather ugly vent pipe running up fixed to the funnel but don't think I want to include that.
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tugmad

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #81 on: December 28, 2018, 08:00:36 AM »

Hi Baldrick, that vent pipe was actually very important as it is the boiler safety valve steam release pipe, when the boiler pressure reached its working pressure, the safety valves 2 of them would lift and release excess steam into the athmosphere via that pipe, and boy it could make you jump when it happened.
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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #82 on: December 28, 2018, 08:44:48 PM »

Hi Baldrick, that vent pipe was actually very important as it is the boiler safety valve steam release pipe, when the boiler pressure reached its working pressure, the safety valves 2 of them would lift and release excess steam into the athmosphere via that pipe, and boy it could make you jump when it happened.


Hi Tugmad,
In the early days when my model was electrical driven, like Baldrick I left out the large black pipe going up the rear of the funnel not knowing what it's purpose was.
However when I returned to the model many years later and converting it to steam propulsion I realised what the pipe was for but as the superstructure had to be removable I made a safety valve exhaust pipe to go over the valve and up the inside of the funnel and the superstructure was then able to be fitted over the the boiler flue and the valve exhaust pipe as it is to this day. Also the engine exhaust goes up the inside of the boiler flue to about 1" from the top of the flue which gives off a very good representation of smoke when under steam.


Can you explain the purpose of 2- ladders going up the outside of the funnel ?


George.



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derekwarner

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2018, 09:01:06 PM »

Morning George & Baldrick......


With respect to the two [2] ladders shown in the Plan View of the chimney....could be just a land based Draftsman with little understanding


From the earlier image if a Cervia build.....it would appear that the main boiler safety valves were hard piped upon the Stdb side of the funnel as marked up in red.....this pipe would be without any restrictions from engine roof top to pipe mouth


The vessel steam pipe for the Horn or Whistle as some times referred to is on the Port side of the funnel ladder....hidden by steam but marked up in yellow


The single ladder would have been to gain maintenance access to the Horn/Whistle


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Baldrick

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2018, 10:11:56 PM »

  Hi Gents , thanks for comments .
  Derek, Just one ladder , the Vic Smeed plan is a bit confusing because he has drawn either the vent or whistle steam pipe going up the back of the funnel behind the  ladder rungs making it look like two ladders. Maybe it was run like this in earlier days when he saw it. I assumed the ladder was so the crew could polish the whistle, but I could be wrong about that


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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #85 on: December 29, 2018, 06:23:36 PM »



]


Morning George & Baldrick......


With respect to the two [2] ladders shown in the Plan View of the chimney....could be just a land based Draftsman with little understanding


Derek


Derek,
Please get your brain into gear before down crying the draughtsman that drew up the plan for CERVIA. ( Vic Smeed ) as previously  named.


As it happens he is now deceased at the fine old age of 95 so can't reply to your snide statement.


Vic Smeed wrote and published many books on model building, Aero, Military, Aero engines and boat related articles and was a very fine designer.
There are still many plans and books available so I would suggest that you do some research into his name and it just may change your attitude towards his "understanding" and of his capabilities to produce the amount of information that he put out during his life time, which has helped many people in the hobby of Boat and Aero  modelling and many other builds..
George. 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #86 on: December 29, 2018, 07:31:36 PM »

As ooyyah/2 says, Vic Smeed was a superlative draughtsman and modelmaker and probably the best of the post war generation for both model boating and model flying designs. To say he was exceptional doesn't even begin to cut it.
Colin
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derekwarner

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #87 on: December 29, 2018, 09:01:59 PM »

George....yes, I am aware of the history and amazing volume of work by Vic Smeed, and his contribution to the hobbyist fraternity. I have purchased a number of his Publications and Plans from 40 years back 


As a retired Draftsman yourself, you will be aware in the days prior to digital scanning of original Drawings, most Drawing Offices employed a number of talented, however unqualified persons in the role of Drawings Tracer... this being the persons engaged to copy and trace original works onto a new medium suitable for the rigors and potential damage in the printing process


It was not my intention to suggest Mr Smeed [himself] made the error and clearly I should have used the word Tracer, as Mr Smeeds original work would not have shown a twin ladder


From this, it would appear that the error of the twin ladder was not picked up on review, by a qualified Draftsman

It could have been that both or either the Tracer or the Draftsman were land based


So if by innuendo your comments suggest to offend, I unreservedly apologize to the Trustees of the Publishing Estate of that Gentleman for any such suggestion of Litigation.......

Derek





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Derek Warner

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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2018, 11:45:05 PM »

Derek,
Thanks for  your apology but how much greater it would have been had you not tried to put the blame on an unknown draughtsman & tracer.
Vic Smeed was the sole designer and draughtsman of the Cervia drawing, as his hand and style can be seen on many other of his ship and plane designs and you must agree that he was not a man of little understanding.


George.

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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #89 on: December 30, 2018, 11:48:27 PM »

  Hi Gents , thanks for comments .
  Derek, Just one ladder , the Vic Smeed plan is a bit confusing because he has drawn either the vent or whistle steam pipe going up the back of the funnel behind the  ladder rungs making it look like two ladders. Maybe it was run like this in earlier days when he saw it. I assumed the ladder was so the crew could polish the whistle, but I could be wrong about that


Baldrick,
 Apologies for interrupting your Thread, I look for ward to further progress and if you search Cervia's resting place at Gravesend there is a head on pic of the single ladder going up to allow the servicing of the steam whistle, the steam pipe comes up the Port side of the ladder and takes a 90deg horizontal bend and then another vertical 90 deg bend into the whistle.

Best wishes to all and a happy New year

Lang may your lum reek wi other folk's coal

George.
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tugmad

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #90 on: December 31, 2018, 08:19:27 AM »

The Cervia Has actually been in the inner harbour at Ramsgate for the last 30 years or so.not Gravesend where she was based when working as part of the London tug fleets.
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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #91 on: December 31, 2018, 08:55:38 AM »

The Cervia Has actually been in the inner harbour at Ramsgate for the last 30 years or so.not Gravesend where she was based when working as part of the London tug fleets.


Thanks mate, My mistake.
George.
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derekwarner

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2018, 09:07:58 AM »


'how much greater it would have been had you not tried to put the blame on an unknown draughtsman & tracer".

George.....the representation of the twin ladder on the Drawing did not appear during printing by a paper fold on the axis of the vessel or magic

Life is not a blame game, however a logical understanding of how such discrepancies could occur is always best

Derek
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Derek Warner

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ooyah/2

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #93 on: December 31, 2018, 10:20:50 AM »

'how much greater it would have been had you not tried to put the blame on an unknown draughtsman & tracer".

George.....the representation of the twin ladder on the Drawing did not appear during printing by a paper fold on the axis of the vessel or magic

Life is not a blame game, however a logical understanding of how such discrepancies could occur is always best

Derek


Derek,
There is a mistake on the drawing, doesn't matter if there's 1- ladder or 2- ladders and the person responsible is the name on the DRG and that is Vic Smeed.


The mistake is not the point, it's that you besmirched the good name of Vic by stating his lack of "understanding"  to which you have apologised so just let it go.

There will be no further comment from me as I consider the matter closed.

George,.
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Nordlys

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #94 on: December 31, 2018, 12:26:10 PM »





Tugmad Im sure you'll like this! I was down at Ramsgate overnight Fri -Sat and toured the harbour.
Two Border patrols amongst the many craft moored up and your ST Cervia looking pretty ship shape above the water
I must say.


***Text now fixed/resized***
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Nordlys

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #95 on: December 31, 2018, 12:30:52 PM »

My text has become unreadable somehow?
Anyway, I was down at Ramsgate overnight Fri - Sat and toured the busy harbour. Two Border Patrol craft amongst the many craft moored up.


I though the St Cervia looked pretty shipshape above the water.
 Tugmad - enjoy!


Nord.
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tugmad

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2018, 12:33:13 PM »

You didnít notice the builders foam hanging from the holes under her stern then Peter?
All the best matey.
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Baldrick

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2018, 01:02:14 PM »

She's starting to look like my model. You can see the effects of the emergency operations, bags of sand and cement tarpaulins and pump hoses cement muck and rubbish on the after deck by the engine room door. At least she's floating.
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Nordlys

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2018, 01:02:26 PM »

I was rather bleary eyed Tugmad after a late night session at the Brasserie out on the harbour wall and then up at the crack of Noon to get these pictures!
Now I see the foam tho'!
N
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Nordlys

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Re: The old B's new ST Cervia build
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2018, 01:13:22 PM »





Last two photos I have.
N
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