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Author Topic: Symster's SMIT Nederland build  (Read 7167 times)

Smyster

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Symster's SMIT Nederland build
« on: February 06, 2018, 10:38:38 AM »


Hi All,
I'm based in Whitehaven, Cumbria so wondering if there's any clubs in my location, have previously built RC Cars both Tamiya and Nitro as well as tanks but these were always as kits and upgrades with assistance from the local club. Think great to join a forum instead of spending loads and getting it wrong with some professional advice.

I bought a Billings SMIT Nederland a couple of years ago off ebay for £80 part started which myself and my 8 year old son have decided to start and crack on with for the last month putting a bit of time in.First kit and a few lessons learned with regards to painting what not to use and things reacting DOH but nearly there, never built a wood building a tug should you use a geared motor seen 6:1 suggested? 2 came with the kit I've fitted but these go like the clappers and seem a bit noisy, RS-550SH Chinese motors running 6v ( Will get some internal pics just painting the hull). Thinking I'd best buy a Mtroniks speed controller something decent just testing with a Losi rc car one at the moment for getting rudders set up.

Kit was missing quite a few fittings such as the stanchions which I canít seem to find bought 1 pack of 10 then out of stock, part Number F627 if anyone knows of any,  missing venturi tubes but £56 to buy all 28 think will try and make my own. The becker rudders were also missing so just fitted standard ones as unable to source, So there's a bit about the model and where we are so look forward to getting advice and help along the way thanks.

Have a 1.72 Revell flower class corvette which I built a 15 years ago but also picked another hull up to RC it so next project already in the pipe line.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Hi All, New to the hobby, bit on our project
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 11:14:06 AM »


Greeting Smyster,

Welcome to the Mayhem!

Great looking Neddy..... is that you or the grandson?!   ok2
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Smyster

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Re: Hi All, New to the hobby, bit on our project
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 02:59:09 PM »

Thanks Martin, its a dad and lad project with an impatient son who can't wait to get it into the water for its maiden run lol, few bathtub runs first, need to investigate ballast setting up and just waiting on a speed controller on ebay to see if I win, MTRONIKS viiper marine 25A one, don't want to run it out with the rc car one in the water. Also not sure to remove the motors which came with the boat and fit some geared ones.


Cheers

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Re: Hi All, New to the hobby, bit on our project
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 04:31:25 PM »

Try Scoonies for your rudders, they had them in stock last year at haydock :-))
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Re: Hi All, New to the hobby, bit on our project
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2018, 08:38:30 PM »

Welcome to the Forum Team Smyster! I hope you both have lots of fun with your build. The stanchions might be available from a company like Cornwall Model Boats either as original Billings or from another manufacturer based upon dimentions and number of holes etc.

Have a good 'binge read' of the topics and build logs and you will find so much inspiration and wise advice.

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Smyster

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Re: Hi All, New to the hobby, bit on our project
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 09:10:04 AM »

Cheers Ballastanksian


Bought the last pack of 10 from cornwall model boats, missing a lot of deck fittings I've to source but would have been nice to complete that part.
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Smyster

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Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 09:33:26 AM »

Hi all


Previously posted an introduction in chit chat, wrong part doh.
Building a Smit Nederland pretty much done bar missing deck fittings, boat was an ebay part done purchase, I'm after advice the boat came with the motors pictured which I've fitted but after firing up you can get a good turn of speed which might not be suitable for this boat?, seems quiet noisey, do you need a geared motor, seen model slipway on there adziz tug recommend 6:1 ratio when trying to find info would it be similar for this boat.
Bidding on a MTRONIKS viper 25A speed controller to use, have a sealed 6v 7AH battery says initial current less than 2.1A to fit in the space pictured.
Stupid question are the props made water tight just by injecting grease into the shafts and tighten up the nuts enough so they spin freely, do you put a lock nut behind them.
By the way will be tidy in there when I finish and can solder lol,
Have a 2 Chanel futaba transmitter from a rc car for the time being and a 7 Chanel RC plane one can these be used, bought off ebay thinking it would be ok to switch the lights on and off and in time when I add a smoke generator.
Don't want to buy to much stuff that will be of no use in trial and error.


Advice appreciated for a newbie and thanks in advance
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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 10:26:21 AM »

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

The 550's are multi-pole motors and quite suitable for a tug.  They will have the gentle power (when run slowly via the speed controller) that will be ideal for your tug.  They will sound noisy on the bench but will perform at sea OK.

The props do need a locking nut and along with some oil will not leak enough to bother your voyage.   :-)

Hope this helps

ken

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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 10:39:48 AM »

Hi Smyster,


Welcome to model boating and particularly the world of tugs :-)) .


It depends with your plane transmitter. If it is 35 meg then it cannot be used for any form of surface craft.


You will find that you will need more channels as you get more into tugging.  Bow thrusters, working winches etc %%
But maybe that's for the future :-))

JimG

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 11:04:26 AM »

It might be worth checking out the prop shafts. The originals kits were plated brass and I found that prolonged running wore away the plating at the rear bearing and started to wear the shaft making it a very loose fit in the bearing. (Admittedly it had run in two 24 hour events run by the club)It might be an idea to replace them with new stainless steel shafts which should not wear.
Jim
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Smyster

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 11:48:25 AM »

Hi Butts


BY 35 meg I take it that is the frequency, it is 35.170TF which I'm guessing the frequency you are talking about so no good then, will stick with the 2 Chanel one for the time being, it does still operate the lights when going in a foward/reverse motion so will do for the time being.
Jim shafts looked stainless that come with brass ends so that's a relief as gorilla glued them in now, will be a pain if I ever need to replace.
Just waiting on a syringe for my grease before refitting the props and role on bath test and look at ballast.


Cheers for clearing that up guys


Steve
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 12:06:44 PM »

Hi again Steve,


Yes on both counts, don't go there.


As you say soldier on with the 2 channel for the moment.


Michael

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 04:59:57 PM »

Hi Michael, or any other members


What can you recommend if looking for a transmitter,is it just avoid 35mhz, looking at cornwall model boats site most seem to be for planes when you read the specs but nearly all on the 2.4ghz frequency. So is a plane one ie 4 channels ok thinking of running either motor off a separate speed controller seen an article on here from Dave Milbourne on different methods of control.  4 channel one with either stick controlling a motor, Or use a mixer?
More to it than I first thought and another member kindly rang me and explained a bit about current the pull etc


Is the 35mhz issue to do with how it transmits ie ok in the sky but no good in water, reason being I bought it thinking it would have had better range as it was for planes.


Thanks Steve
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 05:24:45 PM »

Hi Steve,


The 35mhz issue is not to do with performance but that it is effectively illegal to use it for any kind of
surface craft.  It is purely dedicated to aircraft.


There are, as you say, many kinds of sets, but I would recommend if you are buying that you go for 2.4 ghz.
The difference is, no concerns about other boats in the pond/lake and no need for a peg system etc. Your set up is dedicated to you and
your boats.  Most sets allow for many boats to be bound to the transmitter so you only need the one.
At one time the go to inexpensive set was Planet, but unfortunately they are no longer made.  There are others to look out for though.
The spec for most transmitter is biased to planes or helicopters, but the 2.4s work well with boats.  Go for at least four channels, most fit that bill anyway.


For example, I use four channels for motors and steering - a tractor tug with 2 independent  schottel drives. I have three other channels for lights, and two working winches.


Michael

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 10:12:45 AM »

Thanks very much for clearing that up Michael, some learning there didn't think there was that much to RC boating, more to it than I first thought.


Cheers Steve
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 04:02:22 PM »

Not a problem, happy to help.


We're not exactly on your doorstep, but if you fancy seeing tugs put through their paces
consider a ride to Balne Moor MBC in the summer for one of our events (details on the website - link below).


You're welcome to a play with one of my tugs.


Michael

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 09:02:58 PM »

Thanks for the Invite Michael, we are over flamingo land a bit so over that way so will have a look on the website at dates thanks, would be very interesting to see, was thinking Id have the boat in the water this week but having a complete re think on the electrics side now to get things right, didn't think about it going up in flames lol


Cheers Steve
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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2018, 09:39:12 PM »

Yo Steve,
     I can thoroughly recommend a trip to Balne moor nice people,great food and really friendly. You will learn more about towing in a day than you would trying on your own for a year! We travel over from Southport every time we can and if you need any advice or help these are the guys to speak to.
       Regards, Pete :-))
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ballastanksian

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 10:26:18 PM »

And an eye opener and potential inspiration for your son as well  :-)) Seeing loads of Tugs saling is a grand sight.

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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 09:45:14 AM »

Hey, Pete,
 
How you doing?  Are we going to see your Maltby sometime this season? :-))


Steve, try not to rush into things and make purchases carefully.


For instance I'm a big advocate of Action Electronics kit from Component Shop.  My tugs have
P94 controllers.  They are not cheap, but when you compare to buying two other brand of controller,
then the cost is reasonable.  You can set one up as a mixer for the moment and use your car 2 channel.
Later if you get further into the world of tugging it will convert to a twin controller and you can then enter the
dark art of tank steering.  That takes a bit of getting used to, but increases control no end.


The main thing is to enjoy!


Regards
Michael

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 11:02:48 AM »

Hi Michael,


Thanks for that, just thought I have an 1:72  RC tiger Tank I built a few years ago which Id thought would be no good as with a tank it controls either motor for steering so would probably do the job, also had  another 3 channels for sound, fiiring airsoft BB and somke generator which has broke as would have liked to transfer to the tug. Just need to check if the transmitter has steering drag it out the loft this afternoon.


Had bought a Mtronics Marine 25A ESC and was going to purchase another for the other side, would you not recommend using these, will look at action electronics.


The info on the motors I found says they pull 8.4 Amp at max efficiency and has a stall current of 56.5 Amp,had bought a 6v battery to run it now going to change to a 12V battery, thinking a 20amp inline fuse on each speed controller. If the Mtroniks are no good will use that on another project I bought a Revell flower class corvette a few years ago to RC along with the 6v Battery. Have a full size static model I built 15years ago I was going to transfer onto the new hull.


Your right does start getting expensive, the bargain boat was missing quite a few fittings which I've ordered, made a lot of missing parts to cut costs but at £80 for the kit and another £100 on fittings not too bad a price compared to a new kit.


Cheers for the continued advice, club looks great with its own clubhouse, live in the lake district more water than most places and nearest club is Carlisle an hrs drive need to make contact with once they start up.
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 04:54:20 PM »

I would certainly fish out your tank, it might be just what you need.  I was just trying to demonstrate
what you could do with 2 channels.  The tank obviously has more so might be just the thing. I do not
know what system it contains, but it's worth a go.


The Mtronics is fine, you could certainly use two of those. A word of caution though, I'm not sure which model
controller it was, but our Chairman had a near thing with his boat when a Mtronics controller burst into
flames with the boat on the pond. Fortunately he got to it in time Possibly an isolated incident, but worth mentioning.


Ken has already told you the motors are OK.  You won't need great rpm, it is more of a matter of torque and relatively slow running.
Remember your batteries make excellent ballast in a tug.  I always run 12v.  Protecting the speed controllers with fuses is always sensible.


Regards
Michael





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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2018, 07:24:44 PM »

Hi Michael


Apologies for what may seem like more daft questions, tank no go,


Cornwall model boats have a Saturn XR6 6Ch Combo 2.4GHz FHSS  for only £54 out of stock but same price else where which seems reasonable to start and could save buying a mixed at £25 ish if I can run either motor of either stick,

Action electronics have the P80 condor 20A at £34.50, would 2 of these suffice, a 25A Mtroniks one is £30 which I would need to buy another of (The one I have can be used in another project), I have been recommended the Action by somebody else I have spoken to. Do you need a separate BEC something else I have just come across. Or if you run a separate battery pack to the receiver this is not required.

Like you say can be expensive and try to get it right, what I have bought already could be used on my other project so wont be wasted but don't really want to start wasting any more, need to relist my plane transmitter on ebay.
say current on max operation 8.5 amp

Theres a diagram of my motors the RS-550SH if then Action controllers I've mentioned seem suitable

Thanks Steve
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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2018, 09:49:27 PM »

Two part reply.
   Hi Mike yes the Pegasus will be at Ba!ne in April (we are away on the bikes March), I'll email you some pictures of the finished boat.
     Re Action parts. I had an issue with the bow thruster on my latest build the Pegasus the problem being I needed full power in both directions, after burning out an Electronics es c and trying various other dad's I rang Component shop for advice  I spoke to Kiej  and explained the problem ( the very high Rpm 550 motor was pulling 15 amps with no load sitting on the stand not in the water) He put me on the right track with a lower rpm motor and a P98 es c. Once my Spektrum DX6 transmitter was set correctly instant success. The Pegasus has twin Schottle drive with brushless motors combined with the bow thruster the maneuverability is amazing.
    I would definitely recommend that you consider using Action electrics and go down the route of tank steering, it takes time to master (I'm still learning) but you really will enjoy it.
       Good luck and I hope you get it sorted.
            Regards, Pete.
P.S. Mike day hi to Tess we hope to come over on the bikes March the 4th



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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 10:34:02 AM »

Hi Pete,
Good to hear we'll see Pegasus on the pond soon. We'll be away as usual in March, but will be back
for the April tug tow.  I think I've told you before I too have gone down the road of schottel
drives on my latest build. As it is a tractor, no bow thruster! We'll see how that goes %% I doubt though that it will be ready for April. 
Tess says hi back.

Steve,
There are no daft questions, just things you do not yet know.  Equally, I do not claim to be an expert but
I've been building a long time!

I do not know the Saturn kit, but I've had a look at the listing on Cornwall MB's website. The spec looks similar to the Planet I mentioned before. It will lack the whistles and bells of more expensive systems,
but it will do the job. If it is like the Planet, it might have a more limited range, though I do not know that for sure.  However that generally is not a problem with a boat.  The yachting members of our club sail
on a bigger lake and can get to the edge of the range of such transmitters, but most people cannot see that far {-) .


Yes, the P80s will do the job, but personally I'd still go for the twin channel P94. It is only £10 more than
two P80s and does give you the mixer option.  I still maintain you're better to master tank steering,
but you'll have the option to use it as a mixer if you find tank too difficult.  It's your choice.

Yes, most, if not all, Action controllers are built without becs.  Again it is more money, but I use a
P102 board.  Not only does that give you bec at 5v, it also neatly deals with all the wiring and some of the required fusing. I know I sound like a salesman, but it all works so well.

Whilst we are talking about cost, what have you got on the end of your propshafts?

Regards
Michael
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