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Author Topic: Symster's SMIT Nederland build  (Read 8150 times)

Captain fizz

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2018, 11:32:14 AM »


Whilst we are talking about cost, what have you got on the end of your propshafts?

Regards
Michael




Motors.......... ok2
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Smyster

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2018, 11:56:57 AM »

Hi Michael


Thanks again, Ive two x 3 bladed 50mm props, left hand and right hand, billings own which I purchased from Cornwall model boats as missing from the kit £30, brass type material Part F654. On stainless props, with them stainless couplings on the motors mentioned and pictured. Again do you need a lock nut behind then as one dropped off when I was testing on the bench.


On cost thinking maybe more expensive to start with but cheaper in the long run over the years than changing round and if thats what works and lasts, saved money on the boat kit from new price.


I had not seen the P94 just looked at the speed controllers P80 and thought they would fit the bill, A lot neater having one unit


Thanks Steve
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2018, 01:43:44 PM »




Motors.......... ok2


OK, I left myself open to that one :}


 I ask, because props soon become expensive. Yours will be OK, but the time may come when you look
at 4 blade kort props. If you do, look at Protean Design. They are not cheap, but are a thing of beauty. They are though cheaper than the now defunct Prop Shop offerings were.
 
Yes you do need lock nuts, props are too expensive to loose.  One day someone will dredge our pond and make a killing on recovering lost props!

When viewed from the stern the port prop runs counter clockwise and the starboard clockwise.

Are you keeping the rudders as in your first photo?  As you know the Neddy has becker rudders. I'm not sure how well it will perform with rudders that far behind the korts.

Michael




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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2018, 01:55:50 PM »

Hope  stirrers ont other end %%
Ned
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2018, 02:21:29 PM »

Hope  stirrers ont other end %%
Ned


Just so Ned :} or should we start with the battery?  %%

Smyster

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2018, 03:22:56 PM »

Hi Michael


Found some Becker rudders for £50 should be £70 they said RRP that was for the billings ones that should have been with the kit but missing, was pointed in the direction on here to Scoonies who have them, seem to be a stock issue, was going to try these first. There are some plastic ones on ebay from Austalia at £14 with postage when I was searching for becker rudders, would these make a big difference. Did not glue them in just used sealant round the nuts incase I had to replace.


Don't want to mention batteries as can just see the ££££s coming lol, guessing lipo the best but for the time being was just going to use sealed lead acid, just is the Ahr the highert he better within reason ie a 10 is better than 7 know you don't want to fry your electrics.


Thought bought a bargain boat for £80 and, this ain't going to cost a lot, how wrong was I, but got the bug now so best try and do it right, will be going down the Action electronics route.


Cheers Steve
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Shipmate60

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2018, 05:46:38 PM »

For a tug Gell cells are fine.
No great current draw and good for ballast and wallet.


Bob
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Fastfaz

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2018, 06:11:24 PM »

Hi Steve,
     Lipo's in a tug MMM! the people in the know (Balne Moor) use Sealed Lead Acid batteries and this is what I have been using for some years without problems.If you decide to use Lipo's have a good look on Google at the fire videos, the other issue I foresee is ballast Lipo's are very light SLA's are heavy. My Pegasus needs a full roll of 6 inch lead flashing and a 14AH SLA battery to get her down to the waterline consequently I made the ballast into a removable lead block this plus the battery are fitted in the hull at the waterside as you would not want to carry the tug ready to sail with everything in place.
     Hope this helps and if you need any advice please contact me.
           Cheers, Pete. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2018, 06:29:31 PM »

Pete has pretty much covered the arguments about batteries. I always use lead acid.
My biggest tug has a 12v 20ah and a 12v 10ah.  I need no other ballast and I can
assemble it on the water.  Yours is slightly smaller, but as Pete says you'd be surprised
how heavy they need to be achieve the correct waterline. We joke that my tugs are hernia and double hernia class :}  I can run all day though without exhausting them.




As to the beckers to be honest I would not bother.  When you really get the bug, for your next tug
go for steerable korts. Rudders on fixed korts are usually fixed to the back of the kort, becker or not.
What I was commenting on was that yours seem a little too far away.  If you can alter them, that's what
I'd do.

Smyster

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2018, 07:51:08 PM »

Thanks All


Was thinking that the battery would help towards the ballast and guessing it will need a bit more, unfortunately the rudders came fitted with the boat and hull already drilled but will look at re positioning them.


[size=78%]Thanks again for all the advice[/size]


Steve
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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2018, 09:17:38 PM »

You can get SLA batteries for quite reasonable prices from such places as 'Farmers suppliers' like Mole Valley Farmers, or Screwfix do them for under £15.00. They also do 40 AA batteries for a tenner. I know that this isn't the most environmentally friendly way to go but you can recycle them once dead.

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Stavros

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2018, 09:26:08 PM »

You would be far far better off in your back pocket by buying your batts from Componet shop trust me on this one




Dave
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2018, 09:55:19 AM »

Thanks All


Was thinking that the battery would help towards the ballast and guessing it will need a bit more, unfortunately the rudders came fitted with the boat and hull already drilled but will look at re positioning them.




Steve


You'll gather my concern is that you'll lose some of the kort effect with rudders less in contact.  Don't though spoil the boat trying to alter them.  It will give you the impetus to learn how to tank steer :-)) .  You need the rudders less if you can master the art.  A tug will spin in it's own length with opposing prop rotation applied.

Stavros is right, I've found Component Shop competitive on batteries.

Michael.

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2018, 03:32:43 PM »

Thanks Michael


Been away for half term so just got back on line, save wasting money on rudders would the electrics we talked about allow tank steering, the  Saturn 6 channel transmitter and the Action P94 electronics, like before would like to make it as decent as possible and if that outweighs changing the rudders sounds good, or is there more electronics required




Thanks Steve
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2018, 11:16:53 AM »

As we've discussed before, there are various ways to approach what you're
seeking to achieve, but my suggestion is a proven one which I know works well.

To start with go for a P102 which will give the means for you power distribution, bec
and fusing.  Then the P94.  That, as we've discussed, has two small switches within it to allow
a choice of tank steering or mixer. Personally I'd also put in a couple of P95 fuses to each
motor connection ( £5 each of a tenner for a double).
Whilst I've said before I don't know the Saturn system I'm sure it will
be fine.  The only other thing you'll need is a servo for the rudders.  Cornwall MBs
should be able to advise on compatible ones.

Batteries will complete the installation and you're good to go!

Have fun though, that is the most important thing :-))


Michael

Smyster

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2018, 08:53:34 PM »

Thanks for the help Michael


Got a way forward now and the ability to change steering techniques.


Thanks again for the help will have to post on its maiden voyage


Steve
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2018, 08:06:09 AM »



Thanks again for the help will have to post on its maiden voyage


Steve


Yes, do that Steve,  look forward to seeing it :-))

Smyster

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2018, 12:19:56 PM »

P94 and P107 power board ordered today and was told would land tomorrow, quick. Also ordered battery from the component shop as well, 12v 10ah to help towards ballast.
Looks like the new P107 board has the fuses and on/off switch now included, spent more than I first planned but all looks good to play around with different set ups.

Cheers All for the advice
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Butts

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2018, 03:24:42 PM »

Excellent news :-))   

The delivery time promise does not surprise me, they're always very quick.

Must admit I'd not seen the P107 before, sounds good, you always learn something :} .

Keep us in touch with developments :-))

Hande

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2018, 08:44:47 AM »

I am building my first tug, based on Billngs Neddie.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,53761.0.html


I donít pretend I can give you advice, as I havenít sailed once, yet.
But oh, have I received advice on this forum!

If you are interested, section about electronics is about page three.
I went for action electronics, lead battery, Taranis openTx programmable radio, kort props.
escs are meant for cars (reverse, ABS), recommended by my hobby shop keeper, a serious boat modeller - reduced price helped %)


Having persistent problem with becker rudders. the sub-rudder turning pin doesnít work well. I may have trouble with them, later.

Went to the Haydock park convention last year and came home with the Action ĒNoisy thingĒ. anticipating a lot of fun with it :}


Iím looking forward to seeing pics of your build!


Hande
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Hande

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Re: Advice on a newbie first tug build
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2018, 08:49:08 AM »

... plus motors are geared down 6:1
and I will go tank steering. Dry-tried it already and works nice.
cheers, Hande
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Smyster

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Newbie setting up tug electrics
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2018, 02:17:15 PM »

Hi All


Just after a bit of advice or thoughts before I ring the component shop about my Billings SMIT Nederland electrics
This is a first new build and it has not yet touched water

Ordered the following parts from the component shop a P107 power board, its a new one with built in BEC and on off switch, a P94 mixer speed controller and a 12v 10A SLA battery.

At first I had a faulty P94 which they replaced straight away very quickly as one side for the motor was not working now works, tested today when it landed and done what it should. The other issue is the power board/motors, the motors are just marked RS 550-SH and made in China and came with the boat.

As its a mixer unit when you steer puts the motors on so as to spin on the spot and in mode 3 for tugs, issue is when I do this there seems to be a bit of pulsing from the motors with blue flashing that can be seen in the rear of the motor. I then blew the 25A fuse on the power board and at that the micro switch stopped working small wisp of smoke, replaced the fuse with a 20a and the board is now permanently on shown by the 2 LED one for each group the switch now longer works, I did also put a 20a fuse on each of the motor +ve lines. Checked all wiring and correct.
Just wondering if anyone else has a similar set up and should the motors pulse and flash as described and is this likely to be the problem that has caused damage to the power board, motors not compatible.

Just out at the moment with wife and kids before 12hr nights so no chance to ring until tomorrow for an uninterrupted chat hopefully there back at school/work tomorrow lol.


Thanks Steve
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Re: Symster's SMIT Nederland build
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2018, 02:52:06 PM »


Topic renamed and posts merged   :-))
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Smyster

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Re: Symster's SMIT Nederland build
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2018, 03:45:45 PM »

Hande


Excellent effort on you Neddy, great build thread, and real attention to detail, mines just hand painted and was a part started kit I bought off ebay, so somethings I couldn't alter, the electrics have cost a lot more than the boat, same as buying the missing fittings, I would be giving myself a 7/10 yours is a very neat job. An 8 year old just rushing to get on the water, fancy the Billings Fairmount Alpine to take my time on and build just worried about the frame on plank build.
I painted in the SMIT Finland scheme but son wanted to name Nederland as it has a flag lol. Can be changed at a later date,


Bought the P94 so I can try the tank steering, was bench running in mode 3 but now have the issue with damaging the power board, only thing left must be the motors as everything else purchased from the component shop.


KIt was missing the Becker Rudders, Pricey to replace and didn't realise you had to build them up after looking at your thread, didn't bother and thought I could control off the electronics.

Look forward to see the finished boat.


Steve
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Re: Symster's SMIT Nederland build
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2018, 03:55:29 PM »

Hande


Excellent effort on you Neddy, great build thread, and real attention to detail, mines just hand painted and was a part started kit I bought off ebay, so somethings I couldn't alter, the electrics have cost a lot more than the boat, same as buying the missing fittings, I would be giving myself a 7/10 yours is a very neat job. An 8 year old just rushing to get on the water, fancy the Billings Fairmount Alpine to take my time on and build just worried about the frame on plank build.
I painted in the SMIT Finland scheme but son wanted to name Nederland as it has a flag lol. Can be changed at a later date,


Bought the P94 so I can try the tank steering, was bench running in mode 3 but now have the issue with damaging the power board, only thing left must be the motors as everything else purchased from the component shop.


KIt was missing the Becker Rudders, Pricey to replace and didn't realise you had to build them up after looking at your thread, didn't bother and thought I could control off the electronics.


Will have to check out the haydock convention as only a couple of hrs away, check my shifts.

Look forward to see the finished boat.


Steve
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