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Author Topic: INVINCIBLE Too!  (Read 13111 times)

Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2018, 01:31:08 PM »

One step forwards and two steps backwards - I spent a lot of last weekend plating the hull of the ship but on examination found that the second outer strake with the second line of portholes just wasn't right and in line with the top strake so had to remove it. The good news was that despite using Evostick the plating readily came off. The bad news was that despite using Evostick it readily came off! It does however stick well enough, I hope! So now I have to make another 60 inches of plating with portholes and have another go to get it all in line.


Also on further examination I had noticed that the brass tripod masts were too wide at the top where the legs meet so I un-soldered the aft mast and ground some more off the legs, made a new top platform and re-soldered and it looks much better  - one down one to go!


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2018, 09:20:09 AM »

Disaster, another big step backwards. I had completed the hull plating down to the bilge keels but had left the model in the conservatory on Friday. The heat was sufficient to cause the Evostick to fume again and virtually all the plating was buckled and distorted with blemishes!


So, had to rip all the plating off and then remove old Evostick which was very time consuming. Curiously the armour belt was unaffected, I think because it was twice as thick 50 thou rather than the hull plates which were 25 thou.


Still all very annoying so I have lost about 10 hours work - bah humbug!


The question now is what glue shall I use instead?


Geoff >:-o
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raflaunches

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #77 on: May 08, 2018, 09:29:24 AM »

Thatís damn annoying  >:-o


Iíve been using thin CA for 0.25 card but obviously you donít have much time to move it if it isnít in the right place. I had to remove a piece of the armour belt when I realised that it was approximately 1cm too long- it took me 1.5hours to remove it!

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Nick B

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Colin Bishop

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2018, 09:36:30 AM »

Geoff,

Have you considered using waterproof double sided tape? Bryan Young on here used it extensively and successfully on his working  models. It comes in all sizes and in different thickness levels to accommodate differeing levels of substrate. After all, its what they use to stick bits on cars. I don't think there is any likelihood of it coming off, especially when overpainted as well.

Just Google waterproof double sided tape and all sorts of options come up.

When fixing you can apply it to each plate individually, cut round it with a scalpel and thn carefully peel off the backing - you do need to get it positioned correctly though as once it is on and pressed down it will be the devil to remove - but then that also applies to cyano which is a lot messier to use. Essentially you are creating self adhesive plates, probably a much nicer way of doing the job.

Colin
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ballastanksian

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2018, 11:18:39 PM »

Cyano- messier and plays havoc with your nose after a while  :((
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2018, 02:16:16 PM »

After much thought I have gone with superglue (Gorrilla with the brush applicator) which seems to work well and fix the plates firmly. I have only had to remove two so far due to poor positioning.


I have used a different method than before as I used black electricians tape to show the curve of the top streak (bottom edge) as the plates are deeper towards the bow. Then it was a question of cutting the plates to length and marking on the porthole position. I made a small jig to make sure each porthole is the same height from the bottom edge of each plate. By using plates which are a little too deep the plate is glued on using the top edge of the electricians tape thus maintaining the curve. Once try the height is trimmed down to deck edge level.


The second strake uses the same width plates and I used a spacer between the top strake and the lower strake to keep the curve parallel. It seems to have worked okay.


As least with superglue it won't fume in the heat so I should not have any plate distortion.


Just dome down to the waterline and the armour belt so a lot of plating to go!


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2018, 01:31:53 PM »

By way of an update the plating has proceeded okay and at last I'm further forwards than when I had to strip it all off! I'm round the bilge line and am starting the bottom plating with some bits at the stern to finalise.


If I can get it in the car I may bring it to Wickstead possibly on Sunday. I plan to bring Iron Duke on Saturday.


Cheers


Geoff


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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2018, 01:27:53 PM »

Some progress at long last. The plating has been finished and the first coat of red anti-fouling has been added. I used Humbrol mat red 73 (wine) as I find this gives a good dark red which is not too bright.


Enjoy


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2018, 01:28:57 PM »

I meant to add if anybody ever sees the fifth picture down when I'm sailing I'm in big trouble!!!


Cheers


Geoff
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Bob K

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2018, 03:27:39 PM »

Really neat plating Geoff.  Your expertise shows in that you did not accept earlier attempts that did not come up to your usual standard.  The picture you really want to avoid is just the bow and stern above water.

I am impressed, as always  :-))
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ballastanksian

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2018, 07:41:04 PM »


I like the attention to plating detail around the coaling doors (?) It makes sense to reinforce the openings that way and should have caused less spray.



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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2018, 08:38:22 AM »

Thank you, to clarify the square doors are for ventilation purposes when the ships were in harbour or safe waters. Ventilation for all Dreadnoughts was a major issue as otherwise illness spread rapidly amongst the crew which in turn effected efficiency.

There are multiple coaling scuttles on the decks (circular hatches) that will have to be added. Some of these were steel tubes which led directly to bunkers and others had a canvas tube attached to direct the coal below decks.

It was an absolutely filthy job which involved virtually the whole ship. Maximum stowage was in the region of 2,000 tons! Coal dust everywhere.

If you look at pictures of ships coaling you will see canvass covers over turrets  and sensitive instruments. Afterwards the whole ship had to be washed down.

We need to consider that coal dust is explosive and a 12" gun firing would shock the dust into the air and if the concentration was right it could explode albeit I have never heard of any accidents in all my readings.

One of the reasons ships converted to coal and oil and then oil only was that oil gave greater range and speed could be maintained for longer as the stokers otherwise exhausted themselves. The ability to maintain high speed for long periods of time was a significant tactical advantage.

On the other hand a tactical reason for not converting to oil was England had plenty of coal but no direct access to oil so until a reliable oil supply could be guaranteed only a few capital ships used oil only (Queen Elizabeth class) albeit the Royal Sovereign class were converted to oil on the stocks as the benefits so outweighed the drawbacks.

However coal was also part of the protective scheme as a full coal bunker was the equivalent of 1" extra steel.

It was an interesting time in ship development.

Cheers

Geoff

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ballastanksian

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #87 on: June 12, 2018, 10:47:18 PM »

So interesting, it has enthralled me for decades. I just hope I can build a few of the ships as models before I depart.
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2018, 01:35:51 PM »

Some progress at last - mostly painting and stand building but it all starts to make a difference.


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2018, 01:55:09 PM »

Whilst mentioned in the other Invincible thread, I think I'll do the same here.


I have made 28 torpedo net booms and am looking at fitting them shortly. The rigging plans show multiple bottle screws for adjusting the rigging. I have found what seems to be a good source from a fishing shop "Diamond Eye Match Swivels". These are a size 14 and are just like miniature bottle-screws. They have a loop at each end and a short tube in the middle. At 1/96 scale they work out at 2 feet long (so 1/4") which may be a little large but they really are very small. Cost is £2 for 20 at size 14.


Update, in searching for others I found they go down to a size 22 (Higher the number the smaller) however another manufactures size 20 proved bigger than size 14. The shop I was in explained there are different measurements depending where you are in the world and the Diamond Eye ones were shown as a size 22 last year but are now packaged as size 14!


Either way I have now acquired six packets so total cost £12 for 120 which I think is a fair deal.


Next step is to consider making shackles to the same scale. I'll see how I get on.


Over the weekend I plated the superstructure in plastic card and temporarily mounted the torpedo net booms. They make a huge difference to the appearance of the model and look quite neat.


I need to figure out where all the boom rigging goes - there is quite a lot of it but if done well should look good. I have also found a good source of wire thread - jewellery wire/bead wire. Its very thin and has 7 strands and is a stainless steel colour but would imagine its rust proof as otherwise the sweat/acids from skin would cause all sorts of problems.


I'll try to post some more pictures shortly.


Cheers


Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2018, 07:17:26 PM »

I was wondering how you and Nick were getting on with the builds. I appreciate Nick is overseas but he pops up the odd sitrep on Steve's projects.
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raflaunches

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2018, 07:20:23 PM »

Donít worry, my build restarts this Thursday morning after I land in the UK on Wednesday afternoon.
See how far both Invincibles get before next yearís mayhem weekend.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2018, 07:25:45 PM »

It will be fab to have you back even though you keep in touch via the wonders of modern string and cups.
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #93 on: August 28, 2018, 02:17:27 PM »

I have been working on the net defense and have fitted the parts over the weekend. The rain helped as there was nothing else to do!


I still have an additional line to run parallel at the top to link the ends of each boom together so they could all be pulled out together (on the real ship) this means mi nature bottle screws and cable connectors.


I have now done this and overall with 28 booms I calculate there was somewhere between 400/450 parts including cable joints!


It took quite a long time!


Cheers


Geoff

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Bob K

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #94 on: August 28, 2018, 05:27:40 PM »

And no doubt dozens of tiny brailling davits too  :D
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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #95 on: August 28, 2018, 05:32:47 PM »

In due course, yes! I can hardly wait!

I'll need to start looking at the deck planking soon - must get an order in.

Cheers

Geoff
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raflaunches

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #96 on: August 28, 2018, 07:49:13 PM »

Just ordered some planking material too over the weekend. 0.6x3.0x1000mm lime wood planks which match my Dreadnought to try to recreate that worn teak deck. At least there are not too many annoying cut-ins to do unlike the Dreadnought which has that really annoying curved superstructure!
Are you going to create individual planks or just go for full length strips? Iím in two minds as there is so much empty deck area.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #97 on: August 28, 2018, 08:03:29 PM »


Lovely job Geoff. It looks very to scale given you need to make some allowance for materials etc.


Nick. Can you lay whole strips and then score in the divides between scale plank lengths?
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raflaunches

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #98 on: August 28, 2018, 08:08:53 PM »

Can do, I like to use a graphite pencil to create the caulking effect by rubbing the pencil down the sides, perhaps sharping the pencil each time to put in to the cut/score line might work. Iíll do some experiments this weekend to find out if thatíll work.


I like the torpedo net booms too but Iíve got to stick to the Falklands fit other wise there might be problems with identifying them on the water when they eventually sail together!
Lovely work Geoff :-))
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Nick B

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Geoff

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Re: INVINCIBLE Too!
« Reply #99 on: August 29, 2018, 08:42:43 AM »

On ID I used long planks as I was not confident that I could avoid snaking which would really show up. I plan to do the same for Invincible. For the caulking I used black electricians tape. You put 4 or 5 planks on edge and stick the tape to them. Turn them over as a block and use a very sharp knife between each plank and you get a single strip of black plastic on one side of each plank. I have a circular cutter like a pizza wheel so it doesn't drag. I used a very sharp pencil to mark the planks into lengths after finishing the deck.

On pictures of ships it is very hard to pick out the plank cuts but the length always shows up.

Nick, identification on the water will be a problem anyway. I was sailing Canopus with Renown (both Victorian colours) and got totally confused which was which even though Canopus has funnels fore and aft and Renown both side by side!!

Only another 3 years to go!

Cheers

Geoff
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