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Author Topic: About gas burners  (Read 667 times)

rhavrane

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About gas burners
« on: March 08, 2018, 06:42:26 PM »


Bonjour,
As this topic can interest lot of people, and in order to avoid to pollute a member topic, I create this one to share with you my experience and let you do the same. I am sure I have forgotten some other and do not hesitated to supplement or contradict my words 

I commonly use different types of burners especially when I buy them :

1 - Torch "Rothenberger type" : sold in Germany, example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ-lbevCsX8 and on this one, I had asked as much water
     pipes as possible ==> lengthening of the central tube :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42a9CLfYG9I
     Bests : Powerful, can be fixed in the boiler with a perforated ring
     Concerns : lound sound, length

2 - Torch "soldering lamp" type, sold in DIY stores, example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOgntPE_ps4
     Bests : smaller, sufficient for bi burners needs, 
     Concerns : loud sound, need air, the dart of the flame must not close to a water pipe to avoid any damage because of the heat
      ==> length ==> generally installed at 5 mm of the boiler first water pipe

     2b - Alterntive, the ones called "Bobino" types made by skill French members of this forum like Kbio,
            example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfpI3H7n4jo

3 - Vertical types, sold by Microcosm or Pendlesteam, example ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nd5KxzVkQo
     Bests : Smooth, powerfiul, compacts
     Concerns :the price ?

4 - Ceramic burners, sold by Cheddar for example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvxwNSTDtns
      Bests : quiet, compacts, perfect for vertical boilers
     Concerns :Not powerful enough for long horizontal boilers

My thing to know if a burner is suitable for my boiler? It reaches 2 bars in about 10 minutes at 20 į C and the gases do not sting my nose at the exit of the boiler
     
Besides this, I see a lot of burners made by steam passionates and I have to confess that the buld of a burner needs a real skillness. This accessory does not tolerate the slightest approximation. The air/gas combination management is a science which justifies to my opinion a great experience based on a lot of realizations.
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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pendlesteam

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Re: About gas burners
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 08:15:25 PM »

An excellent summary by my good friend!

Whilst it is possible to make your own burner and achieve a reasonable result from plans on the internet please do so with extreme caution. Burners of all types can get too hot, if they are not made accurately there is a very good chance that the flame will move from the outside ofthe burner to the inside, it will then get so hot that the silver solder and copper will melt, you then have a boat on fire! I make two types of burner, one from all brass which burns quite fierce and is suitable for certain flues, up to 2.5" / 63mm diameter and the other is ceramic which is suited to twin flue boilers. The two require a completely different design in order to opperate safely and reliably, especially so for the ceramic type. There are lots of suppliers of ceramic material  for burners but be aware that 99% will soon burn through into the gas chamber and the burner is quickly destroyed and a serious fire may occur. The critical factors on my burners are the distance between jet and venturi, the diameter of the inlet tube, the diameter of the venturi, the size and positioning of the air inlet holes, the depth and diameter of the burner venturi, the positioning of the grid plate and the design of the gas mix chamber. Gas speed past the air holes has to be correct and then it has to be slowed down once inside the burner in order to obtain an even distribution of gas. At lower gas pressures this is not a problem but if a fierce, hot flame is required then it quickly becomes apparant that the burn is not even. The blue flame cones should not come into contact with the grid and for the hottest burn should be about 5mm high, enabling the burner to work in very close proximity to the first flue tube. One other indication of an incorrect burner is if flames come out of the chimney - you cant easily see this so test at night with the lights off. One factor not mentioned so far is the very real danger posed by Carbon Monoxide poisening. These burners put out high levels of CO when made well, a poor burner puts out an incredibly high CO level and if fired indoors can quickly become very dangerous or even fatal. If you light your burners indoors please have very good ventilation! I have two digital CO monitors in my workshop! Be safe and enjoy youseives.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: About gas burners
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2018, 04:51:29 PM »


With a Ceramic burner is it suppose to be glowing and acting as a radiant burner?
Gerald.
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rhavrane

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Re: About gas burners
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2018, 06:09:58 PM »

Bonjour Gerald,
I am not a specialist, jut an end user and to my opinion, the answer is yes. When you watch a ceramic burner correctly tuned, you can see little blue cones of flames just over it. Based on this finding, you can note the heat is very important but there is no the flue of a torche. It is correct for a small Cheddar boiler, but not for a longer horizontal boiler. A ceramic burner is also very useful for vertical boilers because the heat rises without the help of the flue.
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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steamboatmodel

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Re: About gas burners
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2018, 06:22:02 PM »


The few I have seen all were glowing orange or white on top, they were in the small Gauge 1 trains. The operators claimed that the radiant heat from the glow gave more heat.
Gerald.
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rhavrane

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Re: About gas burners
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2018, 07:28:33 PM »

Bonjour,
Sorry, I have made a mistake, the blue flame is only at the beginning of the heat. Here is an example of ceramic burner realized by Jacques CLABAUX, on of the most famous french steam modelist : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIvg5gpkcHk
Please visit his site if you do not know it yet  (English version available) : http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/introduction/index.html
And his YouTube channel, this man is a living bible, always looking for new ideas :  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDrHJAcYpC8JLbDv5ejT3Eg
Bad luck for me to meet him often, he lives in French Polynesia  :}
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
Ma chaÓne YouTube:  http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane
Mes albums : https://picasaweb.google.com/104408627118165995713/

hammer

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Re: About gas burners
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 02:30:05 PM »

A picture of one of my burners working, out of boiler so flame can be seen. the flam looks a lot more blue in reality.
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