Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Newbie question - rc equipment  (Read 1938 times)

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Newbie question - rc equipment
« on: April 07, 2018, 03:05:09 PM »

Hi all,

I am a total newbie to the site and also to model boating.

I am considering a yacht kit (possibly Thunder Tiger Victoria II - not decided yet). I will also obviously need to buy a RC TX/RX to complement this - minimum 2 chanels? (rudder and sails) - but is there any advantage in buying a RC with more than 2 channels? - I am wondering if there is scope to add more controls/complexity later .... or am I wasting money? (It looks like a 6 channel RC is not necessarily that much more than a 2 channel). Also is it worth considering a RC that has Frequency-hopping spread spectrum (FHSS) technology to eliminate any chance of interference?

Please be gental - this might be a stupid question (or not) - as I say I am totally new to this !

Thanks in advance.

Gary
Logged

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,708
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2018, 03:29:19 PM »

Hi Gary and Welcome to the Mayhem.
You will want to go to a 2.4GHz set.
This will negate frequency clashes.
If you are only going to sail yachts
then 2 channels are sufficient, but to
future proof yourself for the hobby,
then a six channel set is the way to go.
The Victoria is a nice yacht. (I have one)
but the DragonForce 65 is another one
worth investigating.


Ned



Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 707
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2018, 03:31:45 PM »

You can get a 6-channel 2.4GHz set for under 30. No point bothering with old 27MHz gear.
Logged

Mark T

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 726
  • Location: Dudley in the Black Country
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2018, 03:51:04 PM »

There is so much choice and for a fairly modest outlay you can buy a set that will do the job nicely.  It all depends on what you want for your budget?  If you buy a budget set it will work perfectly well and I agree with the comments above about the 2.4Ghz sets.


I have found that the more advanced transmitters give a lot more scope when it comes to setting things up.  I like the way you can set everything from the transmitter including servo travel, speed, end point travel and exponential travel.  These things are absolutely not required but can and do make things easier.  It really depends on how much you want to spend and what you want your RC gear to do?

Logged
Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2018, 04:37:05 PM »

...The Victoria is a nice yacht. (I have one)
but the DragonForce 65 is another one
worth investigating.

Ned

Ned, Thanks for the info, As it happens took a trip to local lake to check out my nearest club - only two folk there (but it was quite early in season and not warm!) - one guy had a Victoria and the other the DragonForce 65 - both 'older' versions than current models) ... been looking at both - like the look (and price) of the Victoria - but the DragonForce is possibly easier/quicker to get into the water ..... I was thinking that I want to build a steam-powered boat - but I am rapidly thinking that is way too ambitious thinking for a first boat. (I don't think there is a 'RTR' steam boat on the market - and I think 'second hand' steam will be a nightmare for a total newbie - I have very much to learn!) My only RC experience is a couple of model car builds circa 25 years ago - so its a lot different tech now !!. 
Logged

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 707
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2018, 04:54:51 PM »

For a first boat I'd go electric - so much simpler. Steam can get very expensive very quickly.
Logged

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,708
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2018, 05:15:41 PM »

A quantum leap from wind to steam %)
An rtr yacht or electric will get you on the water
quicker than the steam route.
Is it Fleetwood you will be sailing?
Lots of Sail expertise there I think.


Ned
Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2018, 05:55:17 PM »

....
Is it Fleetwood you will be sailing?
Lots of Sail expertise there I think.

Ned

No I am the other end of the Fylde - it will be at Fairhaven (mostly) {Club = BFMBC} although my mother and sister live in Fleetwood - so may visit occasionally.
I have spoken to some of the guys at Fleetwood and they seem to be friendly - but its about 40 mins - 1hr away.

Electric kind of leaves me cold - so long as the battery is charged, the wiring is good and it's not full of water - it will generally do whatever you want it to do - go anywhere - don't really understand how that will keep my interest. I am sure that I will get flamed for that comment - but its kind of how I feel (we all view things differently). You need some skill to sail a yacht with changing winds speeds and direction changes - and the fact that you can't sail directly into wind - this adds an element of interest that is not there for me with an electric motor powered boat (yes I know the wind still has an effect but not to the same extent). The reason for wanting steam is that my wife loves steam - that can have a major effect on her tolerance of my time and finance budget !!! (Plus I think almost everybody sees the 'romance' of steam). I do appreciate the complexity and cost of steam - and so I am drawn to start off with sail ... after all, I do have 17 years experience in an Enterprise Sailing dingy!
Gary
Logged

radiojoe

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,528
  • Treat every day as your last,, one day it will be.
  • Location: Gosport , Hampshire , England
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2018, 07:22:58 PM »


Hi Gary, I built the Victoria 2 yacht, for the money it's a good sea keeping boat and sails well in light winds but in my opinion only for light winds easily knocked over in gusts or stronger breezes, sold it in the end, I'd go for a Thunder Tiger Voyager 1 metre yacht if I were to get back into sailing, as for the radio gear I'd go for 2.4 ghz 6 channel so little difference in price these days.


Joe. :-))
Logged

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2018, 07:46:50 PM »

Hi Gary, I built the Victoria 2 yacht, for the money it's a good sea keeping boat and sails well in light winds but in my opinion only for light winds easily knocked over in gusts or stronger breezes, sold it in the end, I'd go for a Thunder Tiger Voyager 1 metre Yacht if I were to get back into sailing, as for the radio gear I'd go for 2.4 ghz 6 channel so little difference in price these days.


Joe. :-))

Joe,

Thanks for that - I had been told it was the 1 metre boats that had problems in high winds and you needed anything up to 4 sail sets to cope with all wind conditions. Just goes to show you need to gather opinions from many folk before making a decision. Anybody agree or disagree with Joe? [Clearly I have still much to learn about 'model' boats].

Surely to an extent - its the way you control the sail that determines if the boat stays upright - it should be possible to stay upright by spilling some of the the wind => letting the sail out further - that was certainly the case with the real (14ft Enterprise) sailing dingy I owned - don't think I ever had to reef in 17 years of sailing !  [And the Enterprise as a reputation for being a 'tippy' boat].

The other problem I would have is that I would need to disassemble (to some extent) a 1 metre boat to get it in my car - whereas I think I could get the Victoria (or ThunderDragon 65) into the car fully rigged (just about).

I think I may well go for the 6 channel RC though - as you say as the price difference is minimal. Any particular makes of RC that folks would recommend? - or any to avoid at all cost? !

 Thanks for all the contributions.
Logged

radiojoe

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,528
  • Treat every day as your last,, one day it will be.
  • Location: Gosport , Hampshire , England
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 09:42:57 PM »


Don't get me wrong Gary I'm not knocking the Victoria yacht in many ways it's a very good model and of course you are right the way you sail it can overcome some wind conditions, but she is quite a light boat, I actually added weight to the keel of mine that improved the performance somewhat, and yes you can get her fully rigged into the car, but then I have an estate car and can get a 1 metre in fully rigged. look forward to seeing what you choose to get.   :-))

Joe.
Logged

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 11:57:18 PM »

Don't get me wrong Gary I'm not knocking the Victoria yacht in many ways it's a very good model and of coarse you are right the way you sail it can overcome some wind conditions, but she is quite a light boat, I actually added weight to the keel of mine that improved the performance somewhat, and yes you can get her fully rigged into the car, but then I have an estate car and can get a 1 meter in fully rigged. look forward to seeing what you choose to get.   :-))

Joe.


Joe,


No probs - I am total boat/mayhem newbie - so all input is welcome !


Good to see that mayhem is like all other forums  - my question about RC Tx/Rx has become side-tracked into a discussion on what my first craft should be - it was a toss up as to which question to ask first - 'what boat' or 'what RC' so all contributions welcome - starting to feel 'at home' here already!


(Still want to go 'steam' in my heart - but need to learn to walk before running I guess !).


If money was no object then I would go down multiple boat routes simultaneously - unfortunately as I am retired early due to ill health - "time" I have in abundance, "money" is short, and my desire to want things "now !" is as strong as it always was. The thing I am most short of though is "energy" - I have CFS/ME - so I need to be patient, do my research and get it right first time (as best I can) - not my normal operating mode - I am more of a rush-in-head-first / headless chicken guy in my past life !


Will post when I make my choice, and probably again shortly thereafter - when I mess-up and need help!


Cheers


Gary



Logged

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 707
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 06:25:07 AM »

Hi Gary
I feel for with the CFS/ME - it's tough to keep things going.

With regard to you original question, there are a million conflicitng opinions with all areas of modelling. Some go for all singing, all dancing computerised radio systems, some for simpler units, some go expensive some go cheap. All have their merits.
The computerised ones are good for multiple models and for 'fixing' shortcomings in design, installation or bodging features like correcting servo directions, speed and travel.

I prefer the cheapest possible sets because I work strictly one boat, one transmitter so I can let others drive my boats while I drive another.
It means my boats have to be engineered & built properly because there is no clever helping hand to fudge the errors.

The signal range of cheaper sets can be less than more expensive ones but seriously, it's not a 400mph jet model 1.5 miles away - it's just a boat bobbing on the water in front of me.

I've got sets from Tamco and Hobbyking - the Hobbyking ones can feel a bit cheap but at 20 for 4 channels and the fact they work 100% reliably, who cares. Except the gear-snobs on the lake.

A word of warning - Hobbyking ship from all over the world - make sure you select the 'UK warehouse' or you can be stuffed for international import duties.
Logged

steamboat66

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • maybe it will float!
  • Location: retford
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2018, 09:13:08 AM »

no idea about model sailing (but sailed an enterprise 35 ish years ago!). but rc, 2.4 Ghz all the way. if you go for orange from hobbyking, make sure you get the EU compliant one. technically, the non EU ones are illegal to purchase new (and less resistant to interference). keep the antenna as high in the model as possible or you will get little range.
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,238
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2018, 10:11:33 AM »

For radios, first step is to look carefully for anything that says "Park Flyer" on any of its labels, and avoid it.  They are just intended for close quarter work and will easily be out-ranged on Fairhaven. 
I have used Saturn, Radiolink and HobbyKing sets.  I've recently settled on the HK - Saturn prices have shot up and the specifications changed, my Radiolink stopped working after I dropped it, the identical (according to the labels) one wouldn't bind with my existing receivers, the HK 4TA V2 just sits there and works.  Binding is easy, the same receivers are used for both that and the 6 channel version and are cheap.
I prefer simple radios - the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to block the drains (nearly a Scottie quote).  Having a collection of radios helps if you want to let somebody else have a sail, it also gives the chance of having a back-up in case of one transmitter failing.  One broken transmitter with a lot of memories means that nothing works.
Logged
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer (Simpson)

SailorGreg

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
  • Money talks - it says goodbye
  • Location: Hayling Island, Hants
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2018, 01:24:38 PM »

Reverting briefly to the question of which boat to get, I have both a Victoria and a DF65. Either would be a good first boat, but the Victoria needs a little fettling to get the best from the boat while the DF65 is good to go straight out of the box. If you decide on a Victoria, this website is a useful read. Don't be daunted by the efforts they go to, you don't have to follow all their instructions, but to get any sort of performance you do need to upgrade the rig and, ideally, the sails.


Have fun!


Greg

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 11:58:19 PM »

Reverting briefly to the question of which boat to get, I have both a Victoria and a DF65. Either would be a good first boat, but the Victoria needs a little fettling to get the best from the boat while the DF65 is good to go straight out of the box. ...
Greg


Well finally decided on the DF65 (which was V6 RTR so came with 2.4 Radio)... bought, rigged .... first sail - near disaster as elastic that keeps tension on winch came loose and so sheet slipped the winch - but got it back in - about 10 mins in water. Elastic was only bit of rigging that was pre-assembled out-the-box ... but should have checked it !


Some repairs and rigging tweaks and second outing much better about 40 mins before light started to go.


Just need to get used to sailing something small and distant now - very different to sailing a dingy when you are sat in it and can 'feel' what the wind/sails are doing.


Thanks to all for advice/suggestions!


Gary


p.s. Should have gone with Victoria 2 !


p.p.s I have acquired a second hand Live Steam Launch 'fixer-upper' - to keep me busy !


p.p.p.s Am building a cheap 'air powered' rescue boat to retrieve the other two when they go wrong !


So should have plenty to keep me amused this summer.



Logged

radiojoe

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,528
  • Treat every day as your last,, one day it will be.
  • Location: Gosport , Hampshire , England
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2018, 09:34:12 AM »


Hi Gary Glad to hear you're on the water now, when it comes to rescue craft you can't go far wrong with a Springer ( pusher tug ) a lot of members on here have them, they are relatively easy to build and is an ideal introduction to model boat building, they can be as simple or as detailed as you like check out the Springer topic the templates for the hull are downloadable,  not sure what you mean by "air powered" rescue boat if you mean a swamp boat type thing I have one myself great fun skimming across the water but it wouldn't push the proverbial skin off a rice pudding.  %%

Joe.
Logged

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2018, 10:46:56 AM »

Hi Gary Glad to hear you're on the water now, when it comes to rescue craft you can't go far wrong with a Springer ( pusher tug ) a lot of members on here have them, they are relatively easy to build and is an ideal introduction to model boat building, they can be as simple or as detailed as you like check out the Springer topic the templates for the hull are downloadable,  not sure what you mean by "air powered" rescue boat if you mean a swamp boat type thing I have one myself great fun skimming across the water but it wouldn't push the proverbial skin off a rice pudding.  %%

Joe.

The local club has a Springer (or similar) for rescue boat .. it fried a ESC Thursday night attempting a rescue and then had to be rescued.

Yes I am making a 'swamp buggy' type - with three drone motors 2 forward and 1 reverse - but the intention is to 'grab' the boat being rescued - and then winch both back using strong fishing line .... that's the plan  - will probably fail but part of the fun is in the trying (or so they tell me)!

Original budget well exceeded - but then we always believed that would happen - just don't tell she-who-must-be-obayed!

Gary
Logged

radiojoe

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,528
  • Treat every day as your last,, one day it will be.
  • Location: Gosport , Hampshire , England
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2018, 11:16:37 AM »


Well that's what it's all about Gary doing your own thing and having fun doing it, there is no right or wrong it's what ever you decide to do.  :-)) as for the budget I could probably go on a world cruise with what I've spent on building warships etc.  %%


Joe.
Logged

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2018, 11:42:41 AM »

Well that's what it's all about Gary doing your own thing and having fun doing it, there is no right or wrong it's what ever you decide to do.  :-)) as for the budget I could probably go on a world cruise with what I've spent on building warships etc.  %%


Joe.

World Cruise does not appeal to me - however do want to 'do' the Caladonian 'canal' before I die. Will have to save up a bit first though!
Logged

jaymac

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,103
  • Location: Somerset
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2018, 07:35:31 PM »

Gary with your airboat are you talking outrunners and not all motors are happy with low or partial throttle My Cajun commander has 1 x 1800kv and  is reluctant to start off at slow speed and a bit noisy and carries a warning not to run slowly. My scratch build one which is virtually just a box with a prop and 1 x 1580kv
 that starts  very slow smooth and is silent  up to fast walking pace it could circle a stricken vessel very slowly
Logged

GaryC1234uk

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Fylde, Lancashire, UK
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2018, 07:53:11 PM »

Gary with your airboat are you talking outrunners and not all motors are happy with low or partial throttle My Cajun commander has 1 x 1800kv and  is reluctant to start off at slow speed and a bit noisy and carries a warning not to run slowly. My scratch build one which is virtually just a box with a prop and 1 x 1580kv
 that starts  very slow smooth and is silent  up to fast walking pace it could circle a stricken vessel very slowly

Yes talking outrunners - Turnigy 2822/14 1450kV x 3 - but must admit its largely copied from [color=var(--yt-endpoint-hover-color, var(--yt-endpoint-color))][/size][size=var(--yt-formatted-string-endpoint_-_font-size)]
Andrew Newton
[/size][/color]'s design on YouTube ... so hoping it will 'just work' - however the grabber is of my own design so may well be the week link. If nothing else it should be good for chasing ducks (of course I will be fitting safety mesh to prevent slicing of any fingers/wildfoul).

If all else fails will add wings and turn it into a seaplane!  {-)


Gary
Logged

Klunk

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,426
  • If you know who I am, please remind me!!
  • Location: luton, beds
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2018, 07:34:24 AM »

I built my TT Victoria 7 years ago. i built in an afternoon after a major head injury. at that time i could hardly remember my name, let alone how to set up rc gear. I followed all the i instructions and gave it to another member to sail 3 days later.  He said it was fine to sail. ps this was my first yacht! keep looking at the dragonforce. still happy with my robbe atlantis though
Logged
SECRETARY - LUTON AND DISTRICT MODEL BOAT CLUB
WARWICK IS AROUND THE CORNER........WHO IS UP FOR TRICKS ON PHIL?

jaymac

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,103
  • Location: Somerset
Re: Newbie question - rc equipment
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2018, 09:35:16 AM »

Should you go for the victoria  this site is worth a lookits a canadian site  dedicated to the victoria 
http://www.okanaganmodelsailboat.org/Step-by-Step.html
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up