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Author Topic: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  (Read 1571 times)

Brian60

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I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« on: April 05, 2018, 03:15:25 PM »

I spotted a bargain a few weeks back. TEN Arduino Nano's for 10€, the drawback is they are not genuine ones as they com from China %) But they do the same job so in with the 10€.

Then I get a message that they are to be expected any time up to 2nd May - yep that about right for delivery from the Far East :o If they could conquer their postal service they would conquer the world!

Anyway just had an email saying sorry but they have been delayed clearing customs and it will be another 14 to 30 days, shrug me shoulders as I wasn't really expecting them for another month :embarrassed:

Now here is where it gets funky, they have refunded me the cash without me asking! and then gone on to say once I receive the nano boards, just leave them positive feedback %% Oh I do hope they arrive :-))

Antipodean

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2018, 04:22:36 PM »

I have read a bit about that sort of thing happening. At the moment there is a lot of people across America receiving unordered items in the mail and when they query it people are told to not worry and just keep it. Turns out it is a scam where you have to be a registered buyer to comment and rate a product so they send out their products to a random address which gives them buyer status and they can raise their ratings. I recently got burnt when I bought what I thought was a genuine flight controller for one of my multirotors and it turned out to be a clone and it also was a brick due to no firmware.
I hope your case is a rare one that has good results.


Ian
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bfgstew

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2018, 04:40:05 PM »

That happens on GEEK........pay next to nothing, wait a month, receive an Email asking if you have your goods, reply no, monies refunded, parcel arrives a week later?
God knows how they make a living out of it....but hey ho.......... ok2
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timgarrod

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2018, 06:38:24 PM »

happened to me, got a email from ebay that seller dropped the price of some fet 10 for a £1.5, jump at that and order couple of packs.

next get a delivery date of 6-8 weeks. they did come 7 weeks later lol
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Brian60

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2018, 06:52:47 PM »

My order was via Ebay and in all honesty I have never really had problems having stuff delivered from China *, just the long lead time due to postage.

I've ordered some pcb drills today from a UK company, when I got the confirmation I was rolling on the floor....

HONG KONG FENG YUE LIMITED

My mind immediately associated it with Hong Kong Phooey - the kids cartoon character from years ago {-)

* Last year I ordered something in May, the usual 6=7 week delivery to my home in Spain. End of August nothing so contacted the company. They gave me a refund with apologies. November the package arrived in my mailbox! Where in Gods name it had been for all those months is anyone's guess.

Neil

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2018, 06:54:19 PM »

may I ask...........IN VERY SIMPLE TERMS please...what are Arduino nanos, and what do they do..............simple explanation please for a simple old fool
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barriew

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2018, 07:01:03 PM »

may I ask...........IN VERY SIMPLE TERMS please...what are Arduino nanos, and what do they do..............simple explanation please for a simple old fool
Neil,

They are micro-controllers (small simple computers). Very useful for adding extra functionality to your model. See the posts about rotating and elevating multiple turrets.

Brian,

I suspect it also has something to do with not getting penalised by eBay for late delivery.

Barrie
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Neil

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2018, 07:31:55 PM »

cheers barrie............don't think i'll ever need them then...........like my models simple, lol............like me......simple, {-) :((
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2018, 11:52:04 PM »

Sincerely,

I think this is a scam to get "Positive" feedback.
I don't believe they actually have the product they are advertising, so the seller posts a
phony tracking number, then messages that there will be a delay due to customs, and
then offers refund, your money, in exchange for positive feedback on their service.

 >:-o

Kim

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 12:54:05 AM »

Hi All,
I have bitten my tongue for long enough -


When will we learn, cheap is not best!


Buy form countries that are not morally the highest? 




Cheaper really is that best for us in the long run? ... Look at the damage it has done to the model boat word! ***moderated- politics***


Support local - get better at the right price!
Just my opinion...
Regards,
Kim
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Brian60

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2018, 10:11:48 AM »

Sincerely,

I think this is a scam to get "Positive" feedback.
I don't believe they actually have the product they are advertising, so the seller posts a
phony tracking number, then messages that there will be a delay due to customs, and
then offers refund, your money, in exchange for positive feedback on their service.

 >:-o

I can't see that Umi, personally I never leave feedback until I have the goods, in this instance if they don't arrive they won't get any feedback. The money is back in my paypal account this morning by the way.



I have bitten my tongue for long enough -

When will we learn, cheap is not best!

Support local - get better at the right price!
Just my opinion...
Regards,
Kim

The fact that many retailers in the UK source their stock from China and offer it at a not inconsiderable mark up seems to escape you Kim. I'm not saying you do it, far from it, but there are those that do - especially those retailers that use Ebay as their 'shop window'. I won't name the outlet, but there is one 'High St'modelling retailer I have dealt with who supplied me with Chinese stock - still in the delivery packaging from the Far East! I could have bought the same servo £6 cheaper via direct purchase but needed it sooner than the 4-8 week delivery period!

Kim

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 01:03:10 AM »

I spotted a bargain a few weeks back. TEN Arduino Nano's for 10€, the drawback is they are not genuine ones as they com from China %) But they do the same job so in with the 10€.




Brain
When you said not genuine and then rant about UK price ,,,, my interest and sympathy runs out.
We sold electronize speed controllers .. don't do anything silly they last ages if not a life time ...
 i cant tell you how many would prefer to buy from china and moan that they got it so bad .... cheeses me right off! lol
Knowingly buy non genuine  ,,, i have no sympathy ..
Regards,
Kim

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tigertiger

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 07:00:43 AM »

One thing that is easy to forget about, even with genuine components, is the QED process, "quod erat demonstrandum". It literally translates as "which was to be demonstrated". Batches are tested and the failure rate is noted (QED). Batches are often auctioned, and if not graded and priced as befits the QED rating, the less reliable are sold off much cheaper. One reason why cheaper computers etc. are less reliable.
In the past (80s and beyond) we were spoiled by Japanese production of tech toys, where reliability (and the integrity of managers) was a main driver for manufacturers. However, in China cost of production is a major driver, and line managers have been know to swap out supplied parts for cheaper components and pocket the difference themselves, and sod the company and its reputation.
The difference between 99.9% and 99.8% reliability does not sound like much, but the 99.8% will fail twice as often. Throw in a number of components in a system, and probability of failure increases exponentially. If an item is sold in lots of 10, I would not have too much cause for complaint if one of them fails, but if that caused costly damage to a model then I would naturally be upset.

Just my 2C
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C-3PO

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 07:59:47 AM »

I think Brian simply used an incorrect word in his original post


Arduino is "open source hardware" - anybody can legally manufacture them and many do as do the original creators


The "copies" are known as clones and there are dozen's of clone manufacturers making perfectly good legal copies of Arduino boards and selling them at a fraction of the price of those manufactured by Arduino.cc


So replace the words "not genuine" with "legal clone copy" and the original post takes a different meaning...


https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ


The clones can be a reduction in price of 90% of others


C-3PO
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Brian60

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 08:10:28 AM »

Thank you for the correction Threepio. It does make more sense that way and would not have caused upset with Kim who seems to think by buying from China it is somehow reducing retail profit margins in the UK - in my case the opposite is true, I would just not have purchased these items, so UK retailers would not have 'lost out on a sale'

tigertiger

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 08:56:22 AM »

Hi Brian
I know from other lowest price stuff on sale here, that sometimes it is the stuff that fails the QC for some reason. The classic has to be the cheap 100+W LED floodlights. When looked at through welders googles you can see that up to 20% of the cells don't work, but most people would not notice the drop in candlepower. Basically, those that can not be sold to industry, are dumped on the retail market, and there are a lot of them.
I know that beyond the dumping on the retail market this example does not fit in with a micro-processor, as if they fail they fail differently . I would suggest to anyone who is using equipment that requires a fail-safe, make sure that any fail-safe mechanism is not reliant on the microprocessor.
At 10 Euro for 10, I would certainly take a punt, but I wouldn't be too surprised if one fails. Notice I have used a lot of IFs, that is what probability is all about.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 10:02:04 AM »

A friend of mine who used to deal with the Chinese on behalf of a well known supplier of electrical goods in Europe once said to me that the Chinese will build to the standard you pay them for!

Which does rather tie in with TTs comments above.

Colin
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C-3PO

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 02:23:31 PM »

Hi BrianI would suggest to anyone who is using equipment that requires a fail-safe, make sure that any fail-safe mechanism is not reliant on the microprocessor. 



TT - take the back off a Planet T5 TX and there are 2 boards one RF board (the radio transmitter) the other an Atmel based chip(microprocessor) and all the connections from it to the switches and control surfaces and not a lot else.


Can't remember the chip might even be the (atmega328p) the same one as used in the Arduino!!!


The Planet T5 user is very reliant on the microprocessor - there is nothing else!


C-3PO

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tigertiger

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2018, 03:31:12 PM »

I was referring more to anything that you are going to run through your own self programmed Arduino or other microprocessor. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that enthusiastic Arduino users will put additional layers of control into their system that might overide or act contra to other microprocessors already in place. This has been known to happen in the real world.
As you rightly pointed out, with your tx/rx you are dependent on the manufacturer’s choice of components. Which is why some gear has a better reputation than other gear.
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C-3PO

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2018, 07:13:10 PM »

. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that enthusiastic Arduino users will put additional layers of control into their system that might overide or act contra to other microprocessors already in place. This has been known to happen in the real world.



Sorry I don't understand - do you have a real world example?
C-3PO
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jarvo

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Re: I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2018, 09:55:20 PM »

Reply to Kim. I totally agree with you points, unfortunately, we have already done the damage. There are no model  shops in the Manchester area. My nearest is a 70 mile round trip. I have been burnt with some Chinese sellers, but, i have had far more supply good quality parts, at superb prices, repeat orders as well.


Mark   
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