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Author Topic: Model Flyers Vital News  (Read 4725 times)

Tug Fanatic

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Model Flyers Vital News
« on: May 30, 2018, 11:35:08 am »


The government is introducing the expected legislation that will affect all model flyers. Whilst the press is talking about drones the reality is that all model aircraft are defined as such.


As I understand it the basic information is that if your models are more than 250gms (8.8oz) weight you will need registration and no model can fly within 1000m of an airfield. There may well be other limits but I have not seen them reported.


This is very sad for model flyers. When it was a hobby where you purchased a kit or its of balsa there was an up front cost (time, skill etc) of becoming an aeromodeller. The introduction of Ready to Fly models removed that hurdle but there was still the problem of learning to fly which again limited those taking up the hobby to those with real interest. Then the drones arrived and the idiots. There was no skill in flying them & they came equipped with cameras that idiots wanted to use to photograph everything that previous aeromodellers knew should be left alone and indeed not flown anywhere near (only idiots would ever fly within 1000m of an active airfield). Because of the "no skill" situation drones became available everywhere and at prices that were not a real barrier.


I somehow doubt that the idiots will abide by the new legislation & that will again eventually hit the real hobbyists again.


I am rather cross this morning!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44293905
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 12:28:45 pm »

Reminds me of when CB radios were introduced and played havoc with models running on the 27Mhz band.
Have the model flying associations had any input to this?
Colin
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 12:45:48 pm »

Yes but I think more about implementation than fact. Other countries seem to be introducng very similar rules in response to the same problem
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Brian60

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 01:29:16 pm »

Its similar in Spain, seems every country is introducing flying laws for drones without realising the consequences of real model flyers.


Just about every model shop I have been able to visit over here only deals with drones, the odd helicopter and of course packed with rc cars and trucks. The staff look at you as though you are mad if you want anything such as a tube of polystyrene glue!

Tug Fanatic

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 02:16:30 pm »


The other part of this problem is the rise of FPV - those goggles that let you think that you are in the model - and cameras to record what the model has seen.


Using the Mk1 eyeball it was unusual to fly models very far from the pilot but suddenly FPV allows you to fly up to several kilometres from the pilot and to go & have a nice close up look at the aircraft at your local airport, the inmates at the local prison, the nuclear submarine base, the lady who sunbathes in her garden down the road etc. It also lets you fly higher to get a magic look at the next 737 coming in to land. FPV & cameras on Drones sold at the local mall  <:(   <:(   <:(


Responsible flyers would never do any of these things & indeed they are illegal but do all those who buy their drone at the local mall either know or care? Will the 13 year old who received it as a xmas present?


I am not sure if it is law or just good practice but a FPV vehicle should never be flown out of site and there should always be another pilot in attendance who knows exactly where the model is and is keeping a safety lookout.
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Neil

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2018, 02:52:05 pm »

please excuse my ignorance but what is an FPV...…. :embarrassed:
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TheLongBuild

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2018, 02:59:04 pm »

First - Person - View

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 04:15:04 pm »

They've been doing the drip, drip, drip with hysterical 'near miss' stories for a couple of years - but there has not been one single actual confirmed near miss.

Fake News comes to mind.
This is more about the government realising that fences with barbed wire are now not enough to keep prying eyes from stuff they'd rather you didn't see.
Registration is designed to be just an added complication to put casual buyers off buying a drone or getting into aeromodelling..
It cannot stop any determined moron with a plan.

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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 05:11:16 pm »

They've been doing the drip, drip, drip with hysterical 'near miss' stories for a couple of years - but there has not been one single actual confirmed near miss.

Fake News comes to mind.
This is more about the government realising that fences with barbed wire are now not enough to keep prying eyes from stuff they'd rather you didn't see.
Registration is designed to be just an added complication to put casual buyers off buying a drone or getting into aeromodelling..
It cannot stop any determined moron with a plan.




http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/16/technology/drone-passenger-plane-canada/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/here-rsquo-s-how-drones-do-and-don-rsquo-t-threaten-passenger-aircraft/



Are you sure?



Whilst I agree that there is tabloid hype about surely there can be no argument that flying hobby drones near commercial aircraft and security zones is a very bad idea.


FPV are a screen (sometimes goggles) that are connected to a camera in the aircraft so that the guy at the controls sees the view as if he were sitting in the pilot seat of the model.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=984tPA7k3yg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9nYweruoUk

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roycv

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2018, 06:59:33 pm »

Hi all, a friend of mine who is a steam buff says that you can go out on a railway steam excursion and find drones alongside you. 

regards Roy
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2018, 07:11:44 pm »

Quote
This is more about the government realising that fences with barbed wire are now not enough to keep prying eyes from stuff they'd rather you didn't see.
Quote
Sorry, but I think that is rubbish! Are you seriously suggesting that you should be able to buy a £100 quid drone and be allowed to roam over military installations? If so then that applies equally to any Russian or Chinese spy with more sinister intentions.
Also, I don't want to find one of my neighbour's drones peering in my bedroom window. (not that at my age there would be much to see!)
The issue here is that drone flyers have onboard cameras which relay the image to the operator. There are massive implications for the invasion of personal privacy quite apart from blowing our military secrets to our potential enemies.
Conventional model planes don't usually have onboard cameras but unfortunately they have become swept along in the advances of technology. S**t happens.

Drones, if used properly can bring great advantages. For example you could carry out a close visual inspection of the condition of your house roof without having to spend a fortune on scaffolding.
It will take a while to adapt to the use of this new technology and find an equitable balance but no doubt things will settle down eventually.
Colin
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Subculture

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 07:20:24 pm »

I think this has got a lot more to do with the commercialisation of drone use by large corporations, with the subsequent licensing and fees for the use of airspace. Already happening in the USA.

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 07:30:53 pm »

Quite right. An amateur hobby has become subsumed into a commercial situation.
The dividing line is whether the operator has an onboard camera or is simply flying the device by sight from the ground.
Colin
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Subculture

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 08:17:31 pm »

It's nonsense, Colin. I can attach a tiny camera onto a balloon or a kite, and snoop that way, if I've a mind to. If they're basing it on weight, it's very easy to have a drone under 250g.

Laws are one thing, enforcement quite another. For instance, possessing and smoking cannabis is illegal, yet today whilst out for a walk up the high street I encountered several people openly smoking it in the street.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 09:27:09 pm »

It's nonsense, Colin. I can attach a tiny camera onto a balloon or a kite, and snoop that way, if I've a mind to. If they're basing it on weight, it's very easy to have a drone under 250g.

Laws are one thing, enforcement quite another. For instance, possessing and smoking cannabis is illegal, yet today whilst out for a walk up the high street I encountered several people openly smoking it in the street.



Agreed that you can attach a small camera to anything but what makes the drone different is the ability to place that camera pretty well anywhere with no skill and the commercialisation of the idea which means that so many more people think that it is a nice idea.


Enforcement? Yes difficult. I guess that it gives the tools to the police/others to deal with a situation if it occurred. I am sure the penalties will reflect the possible seriousness of an incident.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 11:26:34 pm »

Drones have become a very useful tool for many organisations, one that comes readily to mind is the Surf Life Saving Association here in Australia. Surf clubs are using them to help patrol beaches and especially to keep a look out for sharks, which are easily seen from the air, and give early warning if any are spotted. I know of at least two surf clubs in our area that use them regularly.


They also have many other legitimate uses but, as in any form of technology, there are those who will use them for less worthy reasons. Regulations have been put in place in an attempt to restrict their use to legitimate purposes, but enforcement can be difficult.


Peter.
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tigertiger

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 02:03:02 am »

Agree. There are many organisations that put drones to good use, and they will have not problems registering.
There was an incident with a drone over a nuclear power station a few years back. The authorities were very concerned that it may have been a terrorist organisation doing a recce of security.  There have also been several instances of drones being used to pass contraband into prisons, in Britain and the US. The contraband has been mostly drugs, but larger drones could also bring in guns. However, people who will use drones for criminal use will not register.
By making registration a requirement, it will keep drones off of the supermarket shelves. It will also make people get 3rd party insurance (not a bad thing) .One of the problems is not just the 'idiot' users but parents who buy drones for kids, where the child is not old enough to be responsible (a parallel with air rifles perhaps). An example might be that no-one would dream of taking a fixed wing model onto a busy beach or promenade, but a child with a drone might well do.
There are several factors driving the move to regulation. Safety, security, and public nuisance (incl. privacy). Unfortunately it looks like RC model aircraft will fall under the same regs, but many of those affected are already in clubs. On the upside more people may [edit] not now join clubs, and if there is a drone division of the club, people may well migrate to other forms of RC flying

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2018, 08:10:20 am »

Instead of speculating here, have a look at the MyTimeMedia Model Flying site forum where there is a lot more information. It appears that the CAA is fully aware of the model flyer situation and it looks as if it will not be much affected in practical terms.


Colin
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C-3PO

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2018, 10:49:12 am »

Related to drones but not particulary this thread

I met a guy at Wicksteed this weekend (if you read this please PM me so we can talk more) who spoke about Intel and their recent drone show.
I Googled it and this is an Intel drone show - WOW - that's clever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAMPoLV9ODM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTONyX0QOXU

C-3PO
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old_gunner

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2018, 06:19:42 pm »

They've been doing the drip, drip, drip with hysterical 'near miss' stories for a couple of years - but there has not been one single actual confirmed near miss.

Fake News comes to mind.
This is more about the government realising that fences with barbed wire are now not enough to keep prying eyes from stuff they'd rather you didn't see.
Registration is designed to be just an added complication to put casual buyers off buying a drone or getting into aeromodelling..
It cannot stop any determined moron with a plan.
Had what if I had reported it to the CAA would be called a Airprox on the approach to Sywell, the drone I would estimate a span of 3 foot ish which would have certainly stung a little had it hit the cockpit. No point in reporting as the owner would have been miles away by the the time the local police arrived as I suspect a near miss on a DH99 would not have been top of their priority list. Only answer use jamming kit around airports and airfields. 
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2018, 06:42:13 pm »

Instead of speculating here, have a look at the MyTimeMedia Model Flying site forum where there is a lot more information. It appears that the CAA is fully aware of the model flyer situation and it looks as if it will not be much affected in practical terms.


Colin




I so hope that you are right. I suspect that you might be right for club fliers but for us independents...……………..?


We will see.


A lot will depend on if we have to register the model or the pilot & what it involves.



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Netleyned

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2018, 06:46:21 pm »

DH99?
Vampire?


Ned
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old_gunner

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2018, 06:51:49 pm »

No doubt vast amounts of cash will be spent by the CAA in developing rules and regulations in accordance with a EASA regulations just in time for pulling out of EASA, what is needed is common sense no doubt a close up of a Moth will look good on You Tube unfortunately You Tube will not show the embarrassing stain  on the pilots underwear. Why cannot the manufactures place a large sign in the box "Do not fly near Airports/Airfields" Never mind back to model subs.
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old_gunner

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2018, 06:52:48 pm »

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jaymac

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Re: Model Flyers Vital News
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2018, 06:59:03 pm »

Vampire
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