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Author Topic: Marcher vs. other DIY engines  (Read 2098 times)

Moxis

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Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« on: June 13, 2018, 07:14:32 AM »

I am considering building a nice small two cylinder steam engine to power a small open launch. Marcher being considered as a very prominent engine, I wonder if there are any other simple, easy to make and to use engines available? I have a lathe and milling machine at my hobbyroom, so machining of the parts is possible, but don't have very much experience about accurate machining. Of course the easiest way would be to buy a kit or even a ready assembled engine, but being a retired person I just cannot afford the prices asked of them.
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IanJ

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 07:42:00 PM »

Hello Moxis,


My I suggest if you new to model engineering the the Twin Cylinder Oscillator Engine from Stuart Models could be good start. The kit will contain all of the parts to complete the engine. It will self start and the reversing mechanism is simple, so it is not as complicated as the Marcher. It is also not as expensive. The dimensions will be imperial (inches) which may or may not be an issue for you. I am sure others will provide good advice.


Details can be found at www.stuartmodels.com.


Good luck with you search & please date us with your endeavours.


Regards


Ian
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ooyah/2

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 11:27:27 PM »

I am considering building a nice small two cylinder steam engine to power a small open launch. Marcher being considered as a very prominent engine, I wonder if there are any other simple, easy to make and to use engines available? I have a lathe and milling machine at my hobbyroom, so machining of the parts is possible, but don't have very much experience about accurate machining. Of course the easiest way would be to buy a kit or even a ready assembled engine, but being a retired person I just cannot afford the prices asked of them.


Hi Moxis,


Ian has just pipped me to the post, like him I would recommend the Stuart Turner "Oscillating V Twin "  The Marcher engine requires very accurate machining and boring which may be beyond your capability at present.
The "V" twin has plenty of power at 35 p.s.i. and is controllable in Forward, Reverse and speed control with 1- servo.


George.
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Moxis

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2018, 07:23:55 AM »

Thank you Ian and George. The Stuart  7V looks really very promising. So far I have thought a "real" two cylinder engine with Stephenson control and not an oscillating one, but you might be right that it needs too much accurate machining for my skills. I have to consider that very seriously.
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ooyah/2

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2018, 08:13:44 AM »

Thank you Ian and George. The Stuart  7V looks really very promising. So far I have thought a "real" two cylinder engine with Stephenson control and not an oscillating one, but you might be right that it needs too much accurate machining for my skills. I have to consider that very seriously.



Moxis,
The 7V is a fairly new engine for Stuart Turner and as far as I know there has not been anybody who has done a build thread, it's very pricy at 390 + 20% V.A.T which is more than 3x the price of the "V" twin Oscillator, but it's up to you which engine you go for.
Best of luck.


George.
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ooyah/2

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2018, 09:40:06 AM »

I am considering building a nice small two cylinder steam engine to power a small open launch. Marcher being considered as a very prominent engine, I wonder if there are any other simple, easy to make and to use engines available? I have a lathe and milling machine at my hobbyroom, so machining of the parts is possible, but don't have very much experience about accurate machining. Of course the easiest way would be to buy a kit or even a ready assembled engine, but being a retired person I just cannot afford the prices asked of them.




Moxis,
I have just had a read at your first post that you want a small engine for a small boat, well I would say that the 7V is not a small engine at 1" bore x 1" stroke if you go for this engine you will need a large boat and a large boiler to operate the engine.


George.
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Moxis

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2018, 10:56:49 AM »

Thanks George, yes I have noticed it too that the 7V is too big for my use. So I have to check again the V twin oscillating engine.
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steam up

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2018, 03:53:48 PM »

This was my first venture into model engineering with lots of advice from an experienced machinist. Its the Borderer the big brother of the Marcher built from stock material rather than castings (mistakes are less costly).

frazer heslop

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2018, 04:15:39 PM »

The Duval marine engine is a good performer and made from bar stock as is the MB22 although its a tad small. The link for some reason is showing as the bar below

http://jpduval.free.fr/Moteurs_vapeur_simples/MV%20deo%2010x20.pdf
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steam up

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2018, 04:26:34 PM »

I've built the MB22 too great little engine but lacks reverse.

IanJ

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2018, 05:43:51 PM »

Hi All,


Frazer, the 'link' may be small, but it works. What material did you use for its construction?


Steamed up, What a great looking steam plant & your first!


Moxis, I see that Clevedon Steam do a 'Libra' & 'Virgo' engines in machined kit form which my be of interest. www.clevedonsteam.co.uk


Ian
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2018, 10:25:31 PM »

I have clevedon engine which I got at ally pally last year, really nice well thought out and look good painted up, however my my use it needed a small mod......so I cut the whole engine down, re doing the 4 colums piston rod etc to lower the c of g, worked really well  :-))
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frazer heslop

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2018, 10:29:57 PM »

I didnt make it to the drawings simply pinched some ideas as the engine was for Basil Harleys Victoria
I made her with a 3/8 bore 1/2 inch stroke . The standard is brass as are the cylinders, pistons and glands bronze
The only prob I remember was something to do with the reversing valve on top of the frame I think it was only the position of the servo arm. Not a prob for my boat as I fitted a separate unit due to the height.
The Mb22 is a very well designed engine and a good runner and is destined for another wee boat once Iv finished a few other toys
Here is a link for its first run with a scotch water pump assy
again the link is a bit small?????? there is also a few more steam vids on utube of my boat engines and other toys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXyvAvKezWo
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malcolmbeak

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 10:42:02 PM »

Hello Moxis


You talk about a small open launch. How small is small? This could make quite a difference to the size engine you need. Some idea of the size of the propellor would also be useful.


Malcolm
 
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Treble

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 02:55:59 PM »

Moxis , My suggestion would be the Blackgates v twin oscillator .It's similar to the Stuart , but slightly larger bore and stroke , is reversable and is significantly cheaper . Trevor.
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Moxis

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 05:58:19 AM »

Thank you all for your kind answers. Now I really have good options to choose from.

Malcolm was asking how big boats we are planning to build. Well there are very nice plans in Internet about ships built by Finnish company Ahlstrom during the past years: https://www.laivadata.fi

Of these plans we have chosen number 77, a steam tug Lempi, built in 1877. It is 60 feet long, and at the scale of 1/15 the length of the model will be about 120 cm, propeller diameter being 50 mm.

Our plan is to make a mold of glassfibre and build three hulls using this for us three eager modellers.


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Geoff

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2018, 01:52:05 PM »

A number of years ago a gentleman named Peter Arnot published a series of articles in Model Boats. There were two articles, one on how to build a double acting oscillating V2 engine and the other a V4. Both sets of articles assumed that you had never cut a piece of metal in your life so took you through all stages of construction, plans and diagrams and very useful practical instructions. I think the bore was about 7 or 8mm.


You may well be able to get copies of these from model boats. I built the V4 and could not have done so without these articles but for me more importantly it taught me how to go about machining things and led me to design my own in line twin double acting oscillating engine which now powers a 65" model of Velox (pre WW1 destroyer at 1/48 scale) using a Cheddar model Puffin mk 2 boiler.


Hope this may assist.


Regards


Geoff



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steamboatmodel

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2018, 06:55:50 PM »

A number of years ago a gentleman named Peter Arnot published a series of articles in Model Boats. There were two articles, one on how to build a double acting oscillating V2 engine and the other a V4. Both sets of articles assumed that you had never cut a piece of metal in your life so took you through all stages of construction, plans and diagrams and very useful practical instructions. I think the bore was about 7 or 8mm.


You may well be able to get copies of these from model boats. I built the V4 and could not have done so without these articles but for me more importantly it taught me how to go about machining things and led me to design my own in line twin double acting oscillating engine which now powers a 65" model of Velox (pre WW1 destroyer at 1/48 scale) using a Cheddar model Puffin mk 2 boiler.


Hope this may assist.


Regards


Geoff

Peter Arnot's and B
asil Harley's articles are some of the best ever published in Model Boats.

Gerald.
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frazer heslop

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2018, 10:24:36 PM »

Gerald, fully agree with those sentiments .Iv built three or four of B Harleys boats and theyve all performed reasonably well
Peter Arnots V2 or V4  engines and boilers are good performers if a little fiddly
Malcolm Beaks MB22 is a cracking little engine that punches above its wieght
It seems that no one has continued with the I will show you how to build and make tooling as we go style of writing . It may simply be that theres little interest
kind regards
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2018, 12:24:01 AM »


I keep hoping that they will do a steam special edition, but we are too small an audience.
Gerald.
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Moxis

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2018, 05:28:41 AM »

Many people have suggested the MB22 engine which looks very promising. I wonder where to find the drawings for it. The link here is not working and I cannot download anything at the Paddleducks page even when having registered myself there.
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frazer heslop

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2018, 11:18:40 AM »

You could ask Malcolm as he is a member and has replied on this thread
Kind regards
frazer
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2018, 03:36:34 PM »

Many people have suggested the MB22 engine which looks very promising. I wonder where to find the drawings for it. The link here is not working and I cannot download anything at the Paddleducks page even when having registered myself there.

With Paddleducks you have to have made a number of posts before you can download. This is to stop people from just joining to download stuff and not contribute, before this was implemented Paddleducks almost went under and it was this or charge for downloads or membership. Speaking of Paddleducks have you looked at the Paddleduck engine by Bogstandard http://www.machinistblog.com/bogstandards-paddleduck-engine-plans/
Gerald.
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Moxis

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2018, 05:24:05 PM »

Thanks Frazer and Gerald!


Yes, Malcolm has kindly sent me directly a couple of emails with drawings and pictures of his engine & launch, thank you very much!


And the Bogstandard engine looks very interesting too, thanks a lot! I have to read carefully the tutorial & see the drawings. I think now I have enough options to choose from.


Matti
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Corrado

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Re: Marcher vs. other DIY engines
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2018, 02:32:34 PM »

Hi Moxis,
There are many processes & challengers involved in machining a twin cylinder slide valve engine successfully.  You don't really want to bite off more than you can chew.
If this is your first engine why not start with a single cylinder oscillator & as you gain experience you can build more complex & multiple cylinder engines.
Elmers engines are very good & available free to download.
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