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[jumpin_jack]

Hello all.
? ? ? Just a quickie, got myself a 1/96 type 42.... tried it out for the first time on wednesday at my local pond. It was a bit choppy but i was very cautious and kept her near to the waters edge where things were a little calmer, my only observation was that she was not very responsive to my commands. Is this normal for a model of this size (approx 53 in) .. to handle like this, If so is there a way to improve it??? ???
P.S its good to be back. Thanks Martin

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Phil

[Warship]

The problem with Warship Models, the hulls are rather narrow compared to Merchant Vessels and they can be a bit unstable if not ballasted properly. Keep the top weight to a minimum and keep your batteries and any ballast as low down as you can inside the hull. The length to width ratio of ships such as Frigates and Destroyers is one of the problems with Model Warships. Larger models such as Battleships and Aircraft Carriers have quite a large beam in relation to their length and can usually be sailed more realistically.

Try fitting wider bilge keels, this, although out of scale, will not distract from the model whilst sailing, but should help with stability.

[jumpin_jack]

Thanks for the advice.... I think this is where it could be dodgy because my top weight seems to be a bit heavy , but if i ballast her too much then shes not going to sit right in the water ive got some re-thinking too do :-\

[Shipmate60]

Hi,
The 1/96 Type 42 can be rather tender due to the reasons given above, but what is the actual problem, stability or rudder response?
2 totaly different problems.

Bob

[John W E]

Hi ya there Jumpin Jack

You say the model was not very responsive to your commands - I take it that by that you mean - rudder response and also response from the motors.  If this is the problem, there are several options you have.

I know the type 42 with scale rudders and non-independent props has a very larger turning circle.

To overcome this, you could actually increase the size of your rudder with some clear plastic, also, you could try independent control of your motors if you havent got independent control already.

If you have got independent control of each motor, and it is still a large turning circle - are your props turning in the right direction? i.e. turning outboard when viewed from the stern.  This does make a difference if the props are turning in the wrong direction. i.e. turning inboard for going ahead when viewed from the stern.

Hope this is of some help.

Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD.

[jumpin_jack]

my main handling probs are with the steering... yes the rudders do seem to be rather small so a larger set would? do the job. My intention would be to fit tempory ones whilst on the water and remove them when on show. would this be possible with something either to clip onto the rudders or a sheath like subsitute to fit over the rudders?. The motors are independant so i dont think there is an issue here, so once the ballasting and rudder problem is sussed then she should go like the clappers.

[riggers24]

But like bluebird stated, check the direction of rotation i.e. turning outboard when viewed from the stern. This makes a hell of a difference.

riggers

[Warship]

But like bluebird stated, check the direction of rotation i.e. turning outboard when viewed from the stern. This makes a hell of a difference.

riggers

Also make sure that you have right and left handed props.

[John W E]

Hi there Jumpin Jack,

As I said in earlier posts, you could fabricate an envelope rudder with plasticard to fit over the top of your scale rudders, thus increasing the depth and width.? These could be 'pegged' on with two little pegs through the rudders - say one top and one bottom.? However, having said that, you also say you have independent control motors - therefore, the ship should be able to turn in its own length (or turn on the spot) by simply putting one motor ahead and one astern.? ?Or, when going ahead, shutting one motor off and putting it into reverse that should decrease the turning circle.? ?If this is not the case, there is definitely a problem with your propellors.

As far as stability goes, this depends on the actual model.? I dont know what your model is built from - i.e. what materials you used,.? ?I do know the one I built (plank on frame) plywood superstructure
(HMS MANCHESTER) I could roll her so that the water reached the gun on the main deck - so she was at a good 45 degree list - let go of her and she would right herself no problem.? ?When folk watched me do this, it used to scare them, but I used to use it as my 'party piece' put her full ahead and then rudders full port and straight over to full starboard and this used to start a severe rolling momentum as she went along (the crew were often sick? )? the reason I could do this was she was powered by a 6 volt - 10 amp gel battery - lying flat on its side, as low down as possible.? ?Pretty central in the model.

Hope this is of some help.

Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD

[Shipmate60]

With any ship with smaller rudders she will need water flow past them to make them work.
Have you tried her full ahead and use the rudders, you should have about 35 degrees each side from dead ahead. That is maximum, any more is counter productive, much less is innefective.
If you have this throw on the rudders there is another problem.
She wont handle like a tug but should turn tighter than you state.
As previously stated check you have the right props the right way round.
Outboard turning for speed and warships, inboard turning for manouverability, taken from the centreline at the top of the props.
If everything looks ok try going to inward turning props to see everything is set up ok.

Bob

[White Ensign]

Gentlemen, there is also a method to increase the effectivity of scale rudders (no need to make them bigger). If you but the angle of the rudder shaft in dirction to the midth, that about a third of the rudder is sitting in front of the angle. Starting to turn it will make this thrid of the rudder turn into the propwash and increase the effectivity.

J?rg

[Warship]

Gentlemen, there is also a method to increase the effectivity of scale rudders (no need to make them bigger). If you but the angle of the rudder shaft in dirction to the midth, that about a third of the rudder is sitting in front of the angle. Starting to turn it will make this thrid of the rudder turn into the propwash and increase the effectivity.

J?rg

You mean similar to this Jorg.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/AircraftCarrier/VicProps004.jpg

Warship

[White Ensign]

Exactly!  :)

[jumpin_jack]

Hi Guys
   Just managed to blag my brothers camera, so got some pictures of the props/rudders and stablizers
hope the shots work

[John W E]

Hi ya jumpin_jack,

 just had a look at your photos on here and i am looking a set of Jecobin plans for the batch 3 type 42. The only thing that i can see is your propellors look abit close to your rudders (prop shafts could be abit long) the rudders also look short, from the plan they should be 30mm long by 28mm wide at the widest point. If they are this size then you may have to increase the length of the rudder so that the bottom of the rudder is at least 10mm past the centre of the propellor shafts. P.S. It snice to see the correct propellors on this model as in the real ships they were 5 blade variable pitch.

Aye
John E
Bluebird.

[jumpin_jack]

Thanks Bluebird,
          wots the best way to increase the size of the rudder? Plasticard or Milliput??...As you can see the rudders would have to be modified insitue.
 the same as the stabilizers.
         As you mention in your post about the 45 degree party piece...mine did the same but i  think it was more luck than judgement that she didnt turn turtle, i dont think my nerves will hold out, until i can be sure she wont.

[Shipmate60]

Jumpin Jack,
With the rudders that short they miss out on the main prop wash.
You could still try swopping the props, and although they will turn the "wrong" way will prove the point.
Wirh outward turning props they tend to move the water stream away from the ships counter and increase from the lower side of the props.
With shortened rudders they will miss most of the propwash thereby losing theit effectiveness.

Bob

[John W E]

Hi ya there Jumpin Jack

Personally, I would modify the rudders with Plasticard & when you are happy with the results, you possibly could make it permanent by filling in the void between the Plasticard sides and the bottom of the rudders with Milliput.

Increasing the size of the stabilizers may help, but, I personally think, you would have to at least double the size before you would get any noticeable improvements.

When you refer to stabilizers, do you mean, the fins that stick out of the side of the boat which look like side rudders, or are you referring to the thin strips which run along the bottom which are in fact bilge keels? ?(Not being funny but, I know several of us get these confused)

As far as rolling on these models, it does take time for you to get used to the alarming rate to which they do roll. ?As I have said earlier, what I used to tend to do and still do with models is, when I first put them in the water, I roll the boat by hand until I feel she has past the half way part where you know she is going to turn over and I take note of how far she is actually leaning over. ?This helps to build confidence in yourself and in the model and, when she is in the middle of the Lake and you are watching the model and you see it starting to list, you have a picture in your mind knowing how far she can go.

Dont get me wrong I have done this wrong before ?:-[ ?and yes the South Shields Marine Park Lake has a very muddy bottom and a big audience ?:-[ .

I am going to post a picture of HMS Manchester that I made but sadly no longer own her, but, I have the plans for HMS York ?

Hope this is of some help.

Aye
John E
Bluebird

[Warship]

Nice model there Bluebird, pity you got rid of it. Are you building another?

[John W E]

Hi ya there,

Thanks for the compliment on the model, like all things in life, we all do daft things and at the time I hadnt been modelling for a few year and hadnt touched the models and there was a guy bought them off me? :-\? ? ....... but now glad I am back into modelling and currently building a Fairmile B - which is coming on pleasingly but slowly!? ?There are several models which are in the pipeline, which are possible builds.....but havent quite made my mind up yet.

When you take on a project of the type 42 (i.e. Manchester) you have to be in the right frame of mind cause there is a lot of work involved.

But, as I say, I have Jecobin plans for HMS York and no doubt you have guessed they are at hand, and every now and then I have a sneeky look at them and my mind gets going - ah I can do this - this time and that....etc.,, can I make the gun fire etc.?

Aye
John E
Bluebird

[Warship]

Hi ya there,


When you take on a project of the type 42 (i.e. Manchester) you have to be in the right frame of mind cause there is a lot of work involved.
 

Aye
John E
Bluebird

I know what you mean about plenty of work. As you know, I am presently building H.M.S. Victorious, scratchbuilding apart from the Dean's hull, which had to have lots of work done on it, to get it something like the proper plans.

I am also completely scratchbuilding WW1 Battleship, H.M.S. Marlborough, sister ship to the Iron Duke. This model has been put on hold until Victorious is completed. You can see pictures of both models, in the Scale Models forum and follow the build of the Vic in ....Your Builds.

Warship.

[jumpin_jack]

Very nice model/ picture..Im building Cardiff..there is definatley something about the 42's especially the stretch,Very elligant indeed.

[Holmsey]

Hi Guys
I am building a Sirmar Type 42. I am worried about top weight but if you have a big gel battery low down it makes a big difference. I have added more ballast and she does sit low in the water. On a pond the black boot topping is still visible under water and this gives the illusion that the model is higher. My problem is getting the Robbe F14 expansion module to talk to the Action switches and JJC sound modules. I will try and come to Black Park
Holmsey

[MCAT]

Holmsey  look forward to seeing you at Black Park should you make it  you will be most welcome

Mick

[jumpin_jack]

Hi Holmsey,
     Quick question, where did you get your hull depth markings from ???