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Author Topic: Too Immaculate  (Read 1973 times)

johnv

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Too Immaculate
« on: July 05, 2018, 08:11:44 pm »

Hi why do a lot of model boat builders build their boats too immaculate .Real boats are not like that .I think that should be weathered and have crew members on them to bring them to life. A lot of modellers make them too nice. But that's only my opinion cheers John V
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Charlie

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 08:17:32 pm »

Show us how you finish your boats John

Neil

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 08:18:08 pm »


perhaps, John, the reason I don't "weather " my models is because I am a rubbish painter and woud not know where to start.



It is an art in itself and I don't myself possess those visions of what a model should look like to reflect the real thing. Way beyond me.
others might like to build their models pristine because they like the idea that they have just come from the ship yards.freshly painted and clean.
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Neil

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 08:39:45 pm »



as for weathering, have a look at a few of Stan's boats on here...…...beautiful artistic work...….and that's the reason I don't...…...couldn't replicate that sort of stunning work at all.


as Charlie asks..…….could we see some of yours, and tell us the techniques you use to weather your models. always eager to learn new factors of modelling...…..I'm never to old to try learning something new.

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,55460.0.html


neil.
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Bob K

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 08:45:19 pm »

After numerous sailings at our lake, the effects of pond water dust and light rain do seem to create a somewhat used look.  Eventually it becomes quite realistic.

The art of weathering a model is frequently way overdone, IMO.  Done well it can look very effective though, but that is quite rare.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Stan

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 08:49:33 pm »

Just two of mine the fishing boat is now 28 years hold and weathering well.  The minesweeper is only 2 years old but these vessels were kept very clean this was confirmed by a ex crew member. Weathering and figure painting takes time to learn and not every one feels confident in doing this. It is not just a case of the paint job been OK  fishing boats for example need clutter along with a nice weathered paint job but like I said earlier some may wish to replicate a model fresh from the yard. Bobk is right model finishes do change with sunlight and been in the water.

Stan.
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Bob K

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 09:12:52 pm »

Nice ones Stan.  Done well it looks natural, a real working boat    :-))
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Neil

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2018, 09:34:33 pm »


beautiful work. :-)) :-)) :-)) 
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: To immaculate
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2018, 12:33:49 am »

To weather, or not to weather, that is the question..in my case, usually the former!
My latest purchase was a rather well build Our Lass II. The previous owner told me about his weathering technique, I thanked him for the primer coat! I am a bad person, but at least up front about it :}
Following a repaint from Southampton red and white, to Pompey blue and white ( honestly!!), it hit the water in a pristine condition. About a month into its use, it was weathering time.
Potted advice follows..don't use Humbrol Rust (113), it is not rust coloured..use 62 Sand, 63 Leather and 98 Chocolate, job done. Try to avoid dry brushing where possible, it usually looks like dry brushing! I usually use washes, or better still, a fine application with a pointy brush followed by brushing it out with a broad brush damp with thinners.
Sometimes dry brushing works.
Don't forget, dirt doesn't stop at the waterline..( I did the below waterline muck on Boll Weevil II using humbrol brown wash, slapped on with a half inch brush, in about a minute. This was then chased in a downward direction with a soft brush, damp with thinners over about another three minutes! ).
Mucky decks, a fairly clean vessel will still have mucky decks, including modern warships.
If you can see how the weathering was done, brush marks, splatter with a toothbrush etc, do it again, and do it better!
Rust mostly travels in a downward direction, not aft, at a 'go faster' angle, U-Boat boys!!
Not all dirty vessels are dirty. I have struggled to find a scruffy, big trawler in Portsmouth, since I started my weathering, however, the smaller boats in port are total rust buckets, good for reference....
Have good reference, don't just guess where the muck goes.
Practice makes perfect, don't be afraid to copy ( and of course improve greatly...) on other peoples work.
If you make a proper dogs dinner of a job, try weathering back over your mess with the original base colours, sometimes the best effects can come out of a total disaster.
Have a go, or don't, both camps certainly have there merits, it took me a while to decide to weather this model, instead of leaving it as was..
 :-))
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Footski

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2018, 08:02:44 am »

And a lovely job you did of it too.... Mind you, not too keen on those Pompey colours! %%
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meechingman

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2018, 08:26:04 am »

It's always a dilemma, whether to weather. I like mine to be 'fresh from the builders' or perhaps more likely, fresh out of refit. As my fleet are all tugs, that's obviously not how you see them most of the time in real life. But I have a few photos of Meeching arriving home after refit and my model of her looks just like that! I did decide to have one weathered tug, and it got the nickname 'scruffy tug' as a result. The weathering is 'natural', not meticulously wiping her down after a sailing, and leaving her to gather a bit of dust and 'grime' outside.


I have great admiration for the wonderfully weathered vessels seen here and on other threads, but it's beyond my painting skills. Another 'excuse' for the  'new look'! :)
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tigertiger

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2018, 09:33:49 am »

I have seen some great weathering and some really awful jobs. I saw one attempt at a milk wash, and it was a real mess, but the owner thought it was great. I think if I was going to get into that, I would do what I do when I change to a different technique of finishing for furniture. That is to glue one or two pieces of the material together and do a practice area. Most of the time no problems, but 10% of the time I find I need to change my technique.
Do this, and you should not have to fear making a mess of a model. Because if you can't get the hang of a technique, don't use it until you find a man who can.
I must agree with the idea that less is more.
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Mark T

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2018, 01:14:03 pm »

I’ve got to be honest I like mine new and shiny  %%

Colin Bishop

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2018, 04:57:15 pm »

Personally I think that depicting your model as if it has just left the builder's yard is a perfect example of immaculate conception...
Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2018, 05:07:10 pm »

Personally I think that depicting your model as if it has just left the builder's yard is a perfect example of immaculate conception...
Colin



Very good! :-)


In seriousness, I prefer natural weathering on my larger models (the RAF ASRLs) and a minimal amount of weathering on the smaller ones, a light bit of rust here, a scuff there, and in one case with my gunboat battle damage- but all within what I like to be acceptable weathering. I've seen some models which were covered in rust but in my opinion too much can detract from the model. The other issue is if you damage the model is trying to blend that bit of weathering in with the rest of the model! Not easy if you're not used to making your own shades, tones and blends.
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Neil

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2018, 05:14:53 pm »

I’ve got to be honest I like mine new and shiny  %%



that's why I like building lifeboats...……..you seldom get a scruffy or "weathered" lifeboat
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ballastanksian

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2018, 10:03:40 pm »


I always believe that each modeller's hobby is their own realm. The very fact that a modeller can build a model pristine, weathered, stricken, sunk or reduced to scrap is their prerogative.


Everyone has different skill levels and it is again their prerogative whether they should desire to try out new finishing skills or not, otherwise it gets a bit like a job where a manager tells you that the next # number of models must be painted in such a manner, and we like the ability to start a model in one form and then maybe think, 'Hm, I saw Stan use so and so to do this, I might try it.


I felt that the Military Modelling fraternity was becoming very 'Salon' like in that the models in nearly every article included powders, washes, filters, pin washes, flaked paint finishing agents etc. You rarely saw a model just painted with a simple wash and some dry brushing. Model boating seems much more freeform-long may that continue.
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Mark T

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2018, 11:41:45 pm »


that's why I like building lifeboats...……..you seldom get a scruffy or "weathered" lifeboat


Honestly Neil I just think that we build models of the original ship/boat and obviously not the original.  Its really up to the builder to interpret it the way that they want too.  I really like the weathered boats but i also like the shiny one's too.  I like both but I know that I could not make my boats look weathered as its beyond my skills. I try my best and I like the results........thats about it for me.  Each to their own I guess.  I've never seen a weathered lifeboat either or a weathered fire engine :)

derekwarner

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2018, 05:54:06 am »

Guys......lets face facts......look at Mark T's workshop, then reflect on Neil's rubbish tip %%........like he can't even find the chuck key...despite me posting a quality Metabo keyless chuck to him a few years back

So there you have the answer and the birth of tidiness...that can be clinically obscure....or rough & tumble  {-)

regards to both builders...........Derek
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Fred Ellis

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2018, 09:47:02 am »

Hi


A late friend Burnie Wood gave my his old coaster,  Burnie went to Art School and this is a short of the deck housing.


To me this model is a work of Art.


fred
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Neil

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2018, 10:08:16 am »

Guys......lets face facts......look at Mark T's workshop, then reflect on Neil's rubbish tip %% ........like he can't even find the chuck key...despite me posting a quality Metabo keyless chuck to him a few years back

So there you have the answer and the birth of tidiness...that can be clinically obscure....or rough & tumble  {-)

regards to both builders...........Derek



auuggghhhh…..that's unfair Derek...………..I have a weathered look to my workshop...……...I don't need to "Weather" my boats as well...…...as for the chuck key...…….miracles of miniature "black holes"......i'm sure I have one in my workshop...……..one day one of my boats will disappear...…...i'm sure of that, lol...…...and i'm sure I would have used your wonderful present...…………...but it must have met with that same black hole on its way from  OZZ as it never got to me! {:-{ :(( <:(
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Mark T

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2018, 10:28:13 am »

Quote from: derekwarner_decoy link

Mark T's workshop



Strangely for some reason I've never quite fathomed the wife calls it the spare room  {-)

Colin Bishop

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2018, 02:55:03 pm »

Seen at Model Shipwrights Exhibition 2012.
Colin
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2018, 02:56:21 pm »

Hi


A late friend Burnie Wood gave my his old coaster,  Burnie went to Art School and this is a short of the deck housing.


To me this model is a work of Art.


fred


Would that be the 'sinker' that featured at the Plumpton show, all those years ago??!
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Fred Ellis

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Re: Too Immaculate
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2018, 04:24:54 pm »


Would that be the 'sinker' that featured at the Plumpton show, all those years ago??!


Hi unbuiltnautils


I am sorry to say that this is not the one, this is the coaster that Burnie made and named after his wife Anita, I was very lucky that she passed it onto me when they moved to the cost.


Fred
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