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Author Topic: Graupner Seabex One  (Read 16829 times)

Fred Ellis

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2018, 01:19:25 pm »

Hi


I have some small motor's, that may do the job if you P/M me your address I could put one in the post.


Fred
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That's all right, Mr Ryan. My Morse is so rusty, I could be sending him dimensions on Playmate of the Month.

nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2018, 04:06:52 pm »


Thank you for your kind offer Fred,but I am going to research this further before I make a decision.I am probably going to purchase another one of these kits as well for a future build.


I have found a video on youtube showing a 1/72 Seaking with a circuit board controlling both rotors and full scale lighting.I need to investigate further and message the poster to find where this is available as it seems like a proper product,not something homemade


Regards


Nigel
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Fred Ellis

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2018, 06:18:41 pm »

Hi


That's O.K just let me know if you need it.


The motor came out of an old infrared Helicopter.


Fred
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2018, 11:41:15 pm »


A small update.I boxed the area in around where the front bearing blocks for the moonpool doors are fitted.The hull was stood up and two part acrylic adhesive was poured into this 'dammed' area,This should prevent water ingress into the structure.
The inner skin for the moonpool was cut from 0.5mm ABS.There will be a mountain of these slots to cut in these inner skins.Next up I airbrushed the area where the skin will sit in primer then topcoat.The gluing faces have all been masked,I had no confidence in getting proper coverage when the skin is in place.Airbrushing inside the moonpool is awkward enough anyway which is why I am doing one face at a time.


Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2018, 10:50:54 pm »


I have both ends in place in the moonpool.The pics show work to create one of the sides.This is built and painted in layers.The finished baffling forms pockets for the working moonpool doors to retract into.Ladder rungs are from 0.28mm copper wire inserted into 0.3mm holes.As they say a picture says a thousand words and yes,I am sick of cutting and filing out slots %)


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Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2019, 02:08:52 pm »


I am starting to see a little light at the end of the tunnel as all the sides are in place in the moonpool.I still have some detail work to finish then I can fit the gantry and crab unit for raising and lowering the diving bell.


A kind chap has been in touch with me via facebook and sent me some pics of this area on the original.As I suspected Graupner's design is massively over simplified.The deck below the work deck is open to the moonpool.To model this would mean loosing the battery compartment so I understand Graupner's methodology.The chap is building  his Graupner Seabex as Seaway Osprey,her sister ship.He is friends with her Captain and First officer.He did confirm Seabex did have closing doors at the base of the moonpool,so I have got something right.


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Nigel
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del7317

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2019, 03:31:39 pm »

Looking good Nigel keep up the good work 👍
  Derek
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2019, 10:40:19 pm »


Thanks Derek


Your stuff is in the post,probably land Tuesday or Wednesday ok2


Regards


Nigel
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jeff351

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2019, 03:40:03 am »

Impressive work! Level of detail is beautiful  :-))
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Tafelspitz

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2019, 06:09:38 am »

Yes, that's awesome work indeed!
As a former owner of a Graupner Seabex One in the late 80s I had no idea how much detail they omitted.
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2019, 07:30:24 am »


Thank you.


In actual fact this isn't true to the original,this simplified !A member of the osv society has contacted me and sent me some pics of Seabex's moonpool.I am right that doors were fitted at the bottom,however the deck below the workdeck is open to the moonpool.This would mean a massive redesign of all the internals to relocate the batteries to the point of probably not being feasible.I have been asked not to post these pictures and I respect that request.


Regards


Nigel
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Brian60

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2019, 09:35:39 am »

Thank you.

however the deck below the workdeck is open to the moonpool.This would mean a massive redesign of all the internals to relocate the batteries to the point of probably not being feasible.

I did wonder. For instance how would mechanical/ re provisoning of online systems work take place on any submersible without it being hauled up on deck? I can't comment on the Seabex but other similar ships, this space is a work hangar for storage of one or more submersibles when not in use.

nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2019, 06:26:37 pm »


Hi Brian


The pics I do have indicate ROVs were launch either over the side or through the moonpool from the main work deck using a frame gantrys.The vessel was operated by Comex who was at the forefront of commercial saturation diving in the 80's.I have a picture of a large ROV with hydraulic jaws produced by Comex used for working on subsea pipelines.This could only be deployed from the work deck using the main deck crane.In addition and missing from the kit,there is a platform on tracks that moves over the moonpool as a stand to place ROVs/submersibles on.The moonpool area has been extensively altered in refits and is currently covered over by a work hanger,in fact the vessel has been extended,widened then reduced,basically beyond recognition.


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Nigel
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2019, 08:34:26 pm »

 I can’t help you too much with the Seabex but 2010-14 I was one of the resident Field Engineers on the Osprey so I know how she was and some of it might help.  I went through all my photos the other night -believe it or not, I have nothing showing the clamps and moonpools which are good enough to show to the unfamiliar, not sure if I could post them anyway.  It’s always the same, if I just stood 6 inches to the left or right it would have shown what I was looking for now LoL!


I should be OK to post this information but warning, it's a bit of a brain dump coming...

 
Back in the day I believe there were 4 DSV’s which were the original pioneering boats which built the North Sea…
 
Uncle John (semi-sub)
Orelia
Seabex One
Seacom
 
Comex pioneered commercial diving and hyperbaric welding.  Monsuir Jacques Cousteau pioneered air diving and the invention of SCUBA diving.
 
I thoroughly recommend you check out www.anciencomex.com . I showed this to my old colleagues on the Osprey and they never knew it existed but some of them are in the pictures and my old Shift Supervisor “Mike” is heard on the dive comms in the Leo movies.  Some of the old guys I worked with were on the Hydrogen dives -I shudder to think how dangerous that was when I heard the stories!


If you want to see bells, clamps, diving kit check out on google things like "Comex", "Comanex", "Divex" and have a rummage.  I imagine allot of detail might be very small at model scale though.

 
The Seacom became Norskald became Seaway Osprey then Acergy Osprey then Seven Osprey and is now, sadly,  scrapped.  The Seabex One as you know changed names similarly but is still going.  Both vessels were heavily modded.  Both had sponsons added at least -the Seabex One just grew arms and legs everywhere.  Cranes on the Osprey chagned positions at least twice and the original lattice crane changed for the 150Te Hydramarine Knuckleboom.
 
The sisters looked closer originally from the outside but I can’t see much about the internals of the Seabex One.  On the Seacom there were 3 moonpools.  Two transverse just before midships and a larger one centre aft, with dive control sandwiched between the three.  The aft moonpool I think survived into Seaway days then it was plated over top and bottom -we used it as a store for umbilicals and parts...
 
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2019, 08:36:37 pm »

...The “aft deck” on the Seacom > Osprey isn’t the main deck!  Main deck is one below and this is the watertight deck.  The aft deck and fore deck were No 1 and 2 f’csle decks -I forget which one was which.  So it seems to me the deck you refer to below the aft deck surrounding the moonpool is actually the main deck.

…What I’m saying now relates to the sat diving spread (heliox) rather than air diving (nitrox), but in some cases the bells were used for deeper air diving also.  Otherwise air diving for us was done using modular spreads positioned on the port side.  I hated air diving -too chaotic, sporadic and the type of work was complicated for the Project Engineers to keep track of!!!  You also had allot of Divers onboard occupying cabins which would normally be free.


The port and starboard bells on the Osprey travel the moonpool in what’s called an active cursor that slides up and down on rails and winch wires.  The cursor stops the bell banging round during launch and recovery, and when it is lowered, means the bell umbilical exits the hull at the bottom rather than from decks above.  Above the moonpool on the deck above is the winch room with the bell winches and heave compensation.  For some reason I can’t remember but the heave comp was different Port and Starboard -one done on the winch and the other done on a cylinder and sheaves if I recall.  The cursor is pulled up into a big sliding trolley which moves back and forwards using hydraulic cylinders.  So to recover the bell, it’s pulled into the cursor, the cursor raises to the top and is locked into the trolley.  The Deck Diver, opened the outer side door on the bell, then cleaned the flange, the Dive Tech then drove the trolley forwards until the bell flange met the transfer flange on the wet pot trunking.  Once the flanges were parallel, a big pair of C clamps (pinned at the top of the trunking flange) closed using a small hydraulic cylinder at the bottom and a pin was pushed through two holes on the bottom of the clamp so it couldn’t be inadvertently opened...
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 08:38:46 pm »

 ...I can’t remember the procedure exactly but the transfer trunking was brought up to pressure and as it came close the bell door could be opened (chamber doors always work AGAINST) the pressure so they can never blow open.  Once the wet pot door was opened then transfer under pressure (TUP) could start.  The divers exited the bell and closed at least the wet pot door behind them.  The wet pot is where they undress and leave their wet gear, before entering the living chambers  (called the “bin” 1 deck below main deck.  Doors in the system were closed afterwards so loss of pressure couldn’t travel through the whole system.



When the bell was launched, the divers TUP, and when both doors on the trunking were closed, the trunking was depressurised, the clamp opened, bell trolley moves backwards, the bell side door is closed, the cursor lowers to main deck level and the Deck Diver performs last minute inspections etc then he clears, the cursor lowers to the bottom and the bell continues on it’s own umbilical and wires from the bottom of the hull.


…In actual fact the bells are stabilised by a pair of guide wires, inboard and outboard of the bell which have a clump weight on the bottom.  When the bell is at the bottom of the moonpool, the guide weights are lowered to a safe distance ABOVE the highest structure to be worked on.  The ROV checks the deployment.  Once they are in position, the bell is lowered down two guides down the guide wires and the ROV tells the winch operator to stop when they come within a few metres of the clump weights.  Only when this is done and the all clear is given, then the castellated lock on the bell bottom door is opened and the door swung inwards into the bell.  Diver No 1 can then enter the water.



So for the Seabex I’m not so sure because the only dodgy sketch I can see on-line shows a dive system very roughly similar, but with a slightly different moonpool bell(s) launched at the front end with a cofferdam separating them???  I know the Seabex One and the Seacom used to launch and recover things through the aft moonpool also though.



Worth noting anyway: Trunking for diver transfers was something like 600mm in diameter (measure your shoulders and think how tight that is, I used to struggle to crawl through when the system was vented for maintenance!).  On the transfer trunking at the wet pot to bell flange, the surface had a stainless steel “sacrificial ring” bolted to it.  Because the split clamps would slide across the back of the trunking and bell flanges, they would wear over time and the clamps would eventually fail to seal.  The sacrificial rings would be changed out for thicker ones over times to maintain a good seal.  When the wear got too much then the clamps themselves would be replaced, and a thinner sacrificial ring would be swapped back-in...
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 08:40:51 pm »

 ...By the way, it’s not uncommon to have a dive system mounted on the deck (exposed).  In that case any maintenance is done in the open.  This is the same for many ROV’s -the Launch and Recovery system (LARS) on the Osprey was just forwards of the HRV on stbd. Side and the TMS was pulled up onto the “mezz” dec (same level as foredeck).  The same deck, by the way had the gas bottle quads in storage -Nitrogen, and Heliox at various mixes plus quads of Oxygen.  The main gas storage was at the bottom of the ship in the gas room -where there was a huge bank of enormous steel cylinders called the “kelly’s”.  When diving in the old days I’m told they used to vent heliox and it just got replaced next time in port.  When this became expensive it stopped.  Recovered spent heliox went into the “gas bag” in a room next to the trushers at the transom.  The bag inflates until it’s full.  The gas can then be scrubbed, recycled and the Gas Man can balance the Oxygen so it can go back into the kelly’s.  The quads up on deck are to balance the lost gas, or to being on specific gas mixes for different jobs.


…Bit of extra info here which might be applicable to the Seabex One?


I didn’t realise until recently the Seacom was apparently the first DP3 vessel in the North Sea!  Not sure if you already know but it might explain the propulsion system on the boats.  From memory there is a tunnel thruster and two retractable azimuth thrusters forwards.  A tunnel thruster and two main azimuth thrusters aft.  Tunnel thrusters are horrid, noisy and slow things.  As far as I can remember one of the fwd azi’s was fixed pitch (FP) variable speed (VS), and the other was variable pitch (VP) fixed speed (FS).  One of them was locked transverse when we were on DP.  I can’t remember if the aft azimuths were VP also.  So they are all different combinations because some can turn and produce thrust at different rates, with the tunnels used last because of the vibration etc.  On the Osprey the Dive Tech Sup’s office was near the aft thrusters and tunnel thrusters, you got used to the noise and bouncing after a few weeks!  The clients cabin up forwards always picked up the fwd thruster noise and vibration.  The Project Engineers hated us Field Engineers because our cabin was up high in the middle of the boat -no porthole or fresh air but theirs was at the side down below and was quite noisy from the fwd thrusters.


There are 3 types of DP: DP1, 2 and 3.  DP1 effectively means a vessel can stay roughly in place, like a supply boat.  DP2 means the vessel can be fully positioned on station -many folk think DP3 is more accurate than DP2 but it is NOT.  It’s the power management and redundancy that is different.  So the difference is more like if there is a partial power outage, whether the vessel can remain on-station or not.  It's not actually this smple but hey-ho.  This changes depending on what thrusters are available or out of service etc.  Generally, you can dive in open waters on DP2 but close-in work and some other complicated work requires DP3...
 
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2019, 08:42:06 pm »

 ...Also, to consider how the vessel sits on station it has a number of systems as references…


On the osprey we usually used a taught wire on the stbd bow.  This is a very thin steel wire lowered to the seabed on a small davit.  Sensors on the sheave at the top sense the angle of the wire and hence, movement of the vessel from an initial point.  Second system might be a transponder, lowered from the vessel.  This pings sonar waves back to the HiPAP transponder which was lowered through a vertical pipe just forwards of the moonpools so the “bulb” on the end is clear of the hull.  Thirdly was GPS / DGPS through satellite antennas on the mast.  Fourth for close-in work on DP3 was FANBEAM above the bridge.  The LASER on the fanbeam bounced a beam to a reflector on a platform.  The reflectors used to be positioned appropriately per job, but to be honest “reflectors” is a bit much -a reflective tea tray or foil wrapped could be used if they reflected OK.  Fanbeam is always a last resort -it’s reliability is reduced by rain, spray and fog.


Osprey was an awesome bad weather boat (legendary!!).  Because of the position of the bells and type of heave comp and DP we used to start diving way before, and stop way after boats 30 years newer.  I remember the Skandi Arctic sitting a couple of miles from us (biggest and best in the world at the time apparently) giving up and running for home while we were still diving.  We used to sit on DP during storms also when everyone else used to run for cover.  Actually it was a bit of a pain because when it got too bad, we couldn’t get a berth because everyone else bolted first and was sitting tight in port so we just had to sit and wait somewhere a bit more sheltered off the coast.
 
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2019, 09:05:49 pm »

...sorry for the brain dump!  I was just glad to remember offshore days on the DSV and I thought what the hec, just post as much info as I can reasonably remember as I spend my time sat in an office now.  Despite writing off-line and checking there are a cpl of typos and some things out of sequence so I hope what I said makes sense!


I can go on about sat. diving ops. and the type of works we used to do.  I always think when I look at models of DSV's and look at the kit on the deck, they never look like a real working ship!  This class of vessel is obviously close to my heart.

Hope the info helps :-))

Rich
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del7317

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2019, 08:47:46 am »


Like this one .
 Regards Derek

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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2019, 09:15:34 am »


Rich,thanks and wow lots of info.I am familiar the comex link.There is a bit of a cross over in my interests.Obviously building model boats,both RC and static but also diving watches,in particular Rolex ones vintage and modern.And no,whilst I have had a few over the years,I am not financially endowed enough to own a genuine Comex Seadweller {-) .There is one site of a former Comex diver that not only covers the watches but also briefly features Seabex One.


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Nigel
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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2019, 12:06:43 am »

Yea sorry Nigel, I thought for ages there was so little out there on the vessels, why not just brain dump a few things.  I could have listed 3-4 times info again.
I can't see quite what the Seabex sat system was like.  One web site shows the front end of the moonpool split with a cofferdam and life support systems below deck like Seacom, others show the big gantry and bell up to aft deck.
...Anyhow, whether it's right or not it looks like youre making a good jb of it.  The detail in your moonpool is great.  Most things in models are a working compromise anyway.  Just put plenty of rust on everything.  Its amazing how quick it shows -even just one month from refit.  Dive bells can look really rusted and dented -until you realise the outer surface is actually fibreglass!


...theres a few guys out there collecting comex watches.  I remember one of our Clients saying there was an ultra rare rolex -something like 20 made for Comex and 20 made for NASA at one point in recognition of the extremes of operation.  Comex ones worth abouth 50k, if you can find one, or convince anyone to part.  I make do with my Divex std. issue one that everyone has -its just a pain getting batteries because everyone wants to try to charge a hundred quid to replace seals and pressure test.  I'm no diver -just bung a new battery in please!!
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oldiron

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2019, 03:45:49 am »

Hi Nigelfunny you found the kit a pile of crap. I have her too and thats what I thought. Mine sits on a shelf only part started . Look foward to seeing your photos. There is a guy on her who did one goes by the name oldiron or some thing like that. He did some seroius deck hatch mods which improve acess a lot .
If your on Facebook check out Haller 3d, he is doing some serious stuff.
https://www.facebook.com/261884960874521/photos/pcb.525506157845732/525506117845736/?type=3&theater
John
Yes,. I'm the one who did Seabex one. Still have it. Don't run it much anymore. If there's any help I can offer let me know.
John
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2019, 07:14:45 am »

Yea sorry Nigel, I thought for ages there was so little out there on the vessels, why not just brain dump a few things.  I could have listed 3-4 times info again.
I can't see quite what the Seabex sat system was like.  One web site shows the front end of the moonpool split with a cofferdam and life support systems below deck like Seacom, others show the big gantry and bell up to aft deck.
...Anyhow, whether it's right or not it looks like youre making a good jb of it.  The detail in your moonpool is great.  Most things in models are a working compromise anyway.  Just put plenty of rust on everything.  Its amazing how quick it shows -even just one month from refit.  Dive bells can look really rusted and dented -until you realise the outer surface is actually fibreglass!


...theres a few guys out there collecting comex watches.  I remember one of our Clients saying there was an ultra rare rolex -something like 20 made for Comex and 20 made for NASA at one point in recognition of the extremes of operation.  Comex ones worth abouth 50k, if you can find one, or convince anyone to part.  I make do with my Divex std. issue one that everyone has -its just a pain getting batteries because everyone wants to try to charge a hundred quid to replace seals and pressure test.  I'm no diver -just bung a new battery in please!!





Don't apologise,I find this stuff fascinating and it is all relevant.There aren't many logs still in existence on the build of this model,and many builds pre date the internet anyway.I think to produce an accurate model,you really would have had to have been there on board in the 80's with lots of camera film.This vessel has been butchered so many times that recent pics are only a minor help.Photobucket and shipspotting pages didn't exist back then.There will be pics in existence,but sat in a box in someone's loft.


You may find this an interesting read and there are one or two pics from the period we have been discussing and the author's interesting career  http:/ing-watch.net/COMEX-ROLEX-


Regards

Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2019, 07:24:43 am »

Yes,. I'm the one who did Seabex one. Still have it. Don't run it much anymore. If there's any help I can offer let me know.
John



Thanks for the kind offer John.How did you find the kit?I wasn't impressed but I feel we need to remember it was 80's technology and modern kits have 30 plus years of evolution since Seabex was released.


Regards


Nigel
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