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Author Topic: New EU Car Directive..?  (Read 3623 times)

dreadnought72

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2018, 09:17:13 pm »

You can't extract power from nowhere. Internal combustion, despite all the bells and whistles, still chucks the vast majority of power straight out of the exhaust.


Yep. 40% is top-end.

[/size]
Most of the efficiencies on modern engines are only found at part throttle, e.g. sitting at a fixed speed with not much change in terrain. Most driving is anything but. The only way companies are going to extract significant improvements in efficiency from cars with internal combustion engines is to reduce their weight. As the average modern car is built like a chieftain tank, and weighs about the same, that is unlikely to happen without a significant shift in manufacturing techniques.


Yes, to reducing mass. BUT a well designed hybrid should be able to use electric drive (smooth, very efficient) from batteries being topped up by regenerative braking and a small IC running at optimum settings. That's the way ahead - until I can buy something running on hydrogen. Preferably metallic hydrogen.  %%


Andy
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Plastic - RIP

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2018, 09:22:33 pm »

The Chevy Volt does that - it's really weird sitting stationary with the engine revving and then it cuts out as your pulling away when the batteries are fully charged and everything goes silent as the car accelerates.


I organised an electric car motor show a couple of years ago - I got to test all of them - the BMW i3 is good with the range extender pack (a lawn mower engine beside the electric motor for charging the batteries) and the Twizy is the answer to the modern bubble car - seats 2 and is great fun to drive.

The Outlander seemed the best all-rounder.
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Andyn

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2018, 09:46:17 pm »


The Outlander seemed the best all-rounder.

Interesting - I consider the Outlander to be the second worst car I've ever had the displeasure of driving, second only to the Volkswagen Up...
On a run from Welwyn to Oxford and back it returned 36mpg and recharged it's batteries twice. I get the impression this one was rather broken, but the interior was dire (put me in mind of a late 90's Shogun), the drive was awful, it wasn't comfortable and the ride was dreadful.
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BrianB6

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2018, 01:08:27 am »

1 litre on our unmade outback roads.
You must be joking.
It would not get past the first pothole. :D
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BrianB6

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2018, 03:35:58 am »

P.S. Does anyone actually know what the origin of the rumour was?
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tigertiger

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2018, 04:09:31 am »

P.S. Does anyone actually know what the origin of the rumour was?
 


I was thinking that it might just be boredom. Car salesmen have long periods of slack time, and banter leads to bravado. It could be a story cooked up by the sales team around the coffee machine, to come up with an outlandish story to test how gullible the public are. In reality the public are not that gullible, they won't just call out BS with someone they might want to negotiate with. A subconscious reaction of more polite people. Just my thoughts on this one.
If that is the case, try not to deal with the same salesman, as he obviously does not respect customers.
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TheLongBuild

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2018, 08:46:57 am »

Umm, if it was it was very Stupid as this was a person who has bought cars from this garage for some time who changes his car every few years. No just someone of the street killing time.

ChrisF

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2018, 09:44:42 am »

As I said I think there was some fact in it, just that it got a bit misconstrued.

From 1 September dealers won't be able to sell any new petrol cars that don't meet the new emissions standards. So if they have any in stock they will be stuck with them! Evidently there are some good deals to be had.

BiL who works for a large dealer chain says they can't keep up with the PDIs (pre-delivery inspections) as they have sold so many cars.
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meechingman

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2018, 10:52:34 am »

P.S. Does anyone actually know what the origin of the rumour was?


When I was working in the music business (and for that matter, working in customs freight clearance at Newhaven harbour), we had a saying. "If you haven't heard a good rumour by mid-day, make one up and tell somebody!" Now we've got the wonderful interweb, the difference is that the rumours just spread faster!  :}
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McGherkin

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2018, 12:18:44 pm »

Definitely a false rumour. Iím sure the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini will still be chucking out big V8ís and V10ís for years to come, and all power to them.


Smaller turbocharged petrol engines are really becoming popular with manufacturers since with a turbocharger you are essentially varying displacement on demand. So a 1 litre engine with a turbocharger can make the power of a 2 litre engine under 1 bar of boost, but when cruising and not spinning the turbo, itís only a 1 litre. The only issue with this is that below the boost threshold they are essentially torqueless - we have a new Transit van in work with a small (but boosted to high heaven) engine, and when trying to pull away, particularly when towing, it is completely gutless until circa 2000rpm, at which point it just takes off.


Iíll stick with my firebreathing turbo 2.5 straight 5 for now though :)
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Footski

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2018, 12:59:01 pm »

Amazing what can start a really interesting thread, after all the original post was so far off the mark!! %%
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ChrisF

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2018, 02:02:25 pm »

I think that we are lucky to have lived through the age of what is probably the best of petrol engines.

I have a number of motorbikes, mainly Triumphs with lovely engines, mainly unfettered with emissions stuff and an Audi TT roadster with a lovely 2.0 turbo petrol engine which is a joy to drive, 210 bhp and bags of torque. It's a keeper I bought for my soon to be retirement.

These new 1.0 engines are a marvel but you have to rag them to get decent performance, which isn't the way I like to drive, and ideally need to be an automatic for quick gear changes to keep them on the boil. Not for me (though some folks love them) - I shall keep on buying quite large (by todays standards) 1.5/2.0 turbo petrols for as long as I can.

And as for electric and hybrids - they might drive OK but that's about it thanks.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2018, 02:19:48 pm »

I do agree that the generation now entering or in retirement has probably experienced the best of what driving has to offer given all the constraints now imposed on cars and the move away from personal driving responsibility in favour of prescribed regulations, speed limits and various penalties which would probably be unnecessary if drivers were trained to use common sense and educated in safety principles rather than having their heads filled with 'thou shalt nots' and rigid rules which are often inappropriate in many situations which detracts from their credibility.

Examples such as a speed limit drastically changing just because a road crosses a county boundary and different criteria have been applied each side. Blanket 20mph limits so that the driver needs to keep one eye on the speedo instead of giving full attention to the road.

Colin
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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2018, 03:22:57 pm »

I do agree that the generation now entering or in retirement has probably experienced the best of what driving has to offer given all the constraints now imposed on cars and the move away from personal driving responsibility in favour of prescribed regulations, speed limits and various penalties which would probably be unnecessary if drivers were trained to use common sense and educated in safety principles rather than having their heads filled with 'thou shalt nots' and rigid rules which are often inappropriate in many situations which detracts from their credibility.

Examples such as a speed limit drastically changing just because a road crosses a county boundary and different criteria have been applied each side. Blanket 20mph limits so that the driver needs to keep one eye on the speedo instead of giving full attention to the road.

Colin

Have to agree - posing the question "What car would you buy if you were a big lottery winner?", my answer is I wouldn't - I'd pay someone to drive me around as there is no joy left in driving.
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raflaunches

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2018, 03:56:57 pm »

And with new rules coming in all the time I have decided to actually get a move on with my restoration of my MG ZA Magnette. As long as the rules regarding road tax and insurance donít change Iíll be able to drive my fully restored car for the cost of my current road tax on my Vauxhall Vectra! Probably less!
The only problem is getting time to restore her since I seem to be endlessly deployied all the time. >:-o
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Baldrick

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2018, 04:28:38 pm »

QUOTE from the webby thing.

The European Union has developed a new test, called the Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP). This will replace the current NEDC test procedure for establishing the official Fuel Consumption and CO2 emissions of new cars.
The purpose of this note is to explain how WLTP will be presented within the VCA car fuel Data, CO2 and vehicle tax tools.When does the new testing regime begin? Manufacturers will be required to obtain approval under WLTP from 1 September 2017, with this becoming mandatory for all new cars by September 2018.Results from WLTP testing will start to appear   VCA car fuel Data, CO2 and vehicle tax tools https://www.gov.uk/co2-and-vehicle-tax-tools
as tests are completed and the data becomes available.



It seems that vehicles which cannot be certified under the new regime cannot be fudged under the old test standard any longer and will be dropped

http://wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

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TheLongBuild

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2018, 05:14:34 pm »

Amazing what can start a really interesting thread, after all the original post was so far off the mark!! %%



Uhh how do you mean so far off the mark !! I have stated what was said to a Family Member .. <*<

Perkasaman2

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2018, 05:40:19 pm »

I think Baldrick has found the true cause of the rumour. The new testing directive comes into force in September. The VW scandal is likely the reason for the change.
I think the longer term costs to owners with cars fitted with the latest emission equipment will be very high when they fail or clog up in the future.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2018, 08:16:42 pm »

There are some significant financial issues for drivers and lenders in all this.

A very high proportion of private car sales have been made under PHP schemes over the last few years and these are based on the assumption of a specific vehicle value at the end of the term assuming that the original contract conditions have been met. (mileage etc.)

All the recent issues around emissions regulations and cheating mean that many cars, especially diesels, will not be worth as much as originally anticipated and that will cause the financing companies a lot of headaches although they will probably find some way of passing the loss on to the drivers.

It has been said that these days motor manufacturers are actually banks with a sideline in building cars and there is a very real financial crisis looming in respect opf PHP funded vehicles.

Colin


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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2018, 08:24:57 pm »



All the recent issues around emissions regulations and cheating mean that many cars, especially diesels, will not be worth as much as originally anticipated and that will cause the financing companies a lot of headaches although they will probably find some way of passing the loss on to the drivers.

It has been said that these days motor manufacturers are actually banks with a sideline in building cars and there is a very real financial crisis looming in respect opf PHP funded vehicles.

Colin

The shortfall will be made up by the customer by them being stuffed on the trade in / replacement car price (and trying to trade in against another make will be even worse) or on the other type of plan, the PCP, every tiny bit of damage will be charged for when the car is returned - every stone chip, wheel scuff, interior scuff, wear marks, dings & dents will incur punitive additional fees. Heads they win, tails you lose.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2018, 08:37:42 pm »

Yes, I think that's about the strength of it!

My car is on 0% PCP and just over one year old. At two years I will pay off the balance without penalty so won't  get involved in the termination arguments. It's also a petrol as I decided a while back that diesels were no longer the way forward.

Colin
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Grumpy Dave

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Re: New EU Car Directive..?
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2018, 10:50:17 pm »

Hi Plastic, If you take S1 Landrover (Tax free) and put the body on top of a Range Rover you are risking a lot of agro from a VOSA road check. Strange looking Landrovers are pulled for checking and if it aint got a S1 chassis and the engine isn't on the V5 it could be on its way to the crusher. Stick with a standard Ser 1 , If you can afford one that is.
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