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Author Topic: HMS Queen Elizabeth  (Read 1834 times)

john44

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HMS Queen Elizabeth
« on: August 18, 2018, 06:58:58 PM »

Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, has left Portsmouth heading to the USA for trials.


Fancy having a go at that one Stan? {-)


John
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 07:18:19 PM »

Apparently two F35 American test jets piloted by British aircrew will be making a series of deck landings and takeoffs to prepare the ship for entering service.
By which time it appears we might not be able to afford more than a couple of operational jets ourselves....  <:(
I rather suspect that QE and PoW will initially enter service as largely helicopter carriers although as time goes on one hopes they will evolve into their intended role.
On balance I think the Nation will end up being grateful for them eventually. Despite their size they only carry similar naval crew numbers to the old Invincible class so, once in service they could turn out to be quite economical to operate and there is nothing like having a big deck for versatility over their projected long service lives.
In the past the RN has so frequently been restricted by ships that were built just capable of meeting then current operational requirements with nothing in hand to cope with future upgrades resulting in early obsolescence and scrapping.

Colin
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KitS

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 07:39:39 PM »

There are nine F-35s/Lightning IIs, call them as you will, already over here with 617 Squadron at Marham. And some more of 'ours' still over in the US.

I wonder why they can't use them to test the ship's capabilities?
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 07:42:13 PM »

Maybe the RAF don't want to get their feet wet?

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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 07:46:00 PM »

I have seen a report that the two jets to be used for the tests are fitted with special equipment to facilitate the testing process which seems logical.
Colin
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gingyer

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 08:31:55 AM »

Exactly what Colin said....


The test aircraft are fitted to the brim with sensors and recording devices.
They are American owned but are flown by all the test pilots.


To make it “British” aircraft would only serve stupidity as it would cost
Additional millions to convert one of the British aircraft for this job never mind a few
Aircraft.
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KitS

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2018, 06:00:24 PM »

They'll have to fit out some of the UK  based aircraft with some instrumentation at some stage, if they haven't already done so, in order to get them cleared by Boscombe Down.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 06:54:41 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we are talking about two things here. Obviously the F35s delivered have comprehensive flight instrumentation but the test aircraft will have extra facilities to monitor the characteristics of the aircraft and work up procedures for takeoffs and landings in various conditions of weather and loading. Much as the ATS Girls used to have 'pilots notes' to assist them in handling the various types of aircraft they were delivering to front line squadrons in WW2. They only had notebooks in those days though and deserve our full admiration.
QE has only recently been through a similar series of tests for operating diferent types of helicopters.

Colin
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gingyer

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2018, 06:59:46 PM »

Correct Colin,
These aircraft will monitor and test everything from flying to deck manoeuvring.
Everything is then assessed and alterations will be made where required on all
Subsequent aircraft.

Boscombe Down has little to no input in these trials.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2018, 08:49:15 PM »

Testing makes perfect sense where most of the trials work is carried out. My concerns are further down the line. Remember Ark Royal and her RAF Harriers, which the RAF then offered up as sacrifice to keep their Tornado fleet in service. Thereby pulling Ark Royals teeth early, bit of a dirty trick. I would hope in this more joined up world they would see the benefits of working off of a flight deck, we shall see.
Also, wouldn't it be nice to think that QE would come back from her stateside visit with three shiny new Phalanx guns plugged in. Would save shipping them across the Atlantic?
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2018, 10:54:02 PM »

'three shiny new Phalanx guns plugged in'...[yes true, they are literally Plug & Play]

Yes UBN...I have raised this a few times......it must have been embarrassing during earlier trials when that $200 - 2 ft diameter Media sponsored radio controlled model Drone landed on her deck & Elizabeth's only defences were a couple of Sailors with 303 rifles  :embarrassed:

Derek
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2018, 11:07:43 PM »

At that point the Phalanx were not scheduled to be fitted and the ship was not operational so I don't know what the fuss was about! New ships do not come straight out of dock with all guns blazing, they still have a lot of equipment to be installed which is what is happening as planned. And I don't think sailors are normally issued with .303 rifles either. Fake news!


Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2018, 11:19:08 PM »

Testing makes perfect sense where most of the trials work is carried out. My concerns are further down the line. Remember Ark Royal and her RAF Harriers, which the RAF then offered up as sacrifice to keep their Tornado fleet in service. Thereby pulling Ark Royals teeth early, bit of a dirty trick. I would hope in this more joined up world they would see the benefits of working off of a flight deck, we shall see.


That’s a bit unfair, the RAF lost a lot in the 2010 SDR. The choice between Harrier and Tornado was purely down to what the Tornado could carry compared to the Harrier- mainly Storm Shadow and Brimstone. If the military had been clever they should have given the Harrier to the Navy when the choice was given thus keeping the decision- the RAF retires the Harrier but nothing about the Navy keeping them! There was also five Tornado squadrons compared to three Harrier so it meant more aircraft retiring if they chose to keep Harrier.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2018, 11:22:49 PM »

Colin.....I clearly paraphrased this scenario as Media sponsored <*< ...... & yes the World Media did leap on it......nor did I suggest Elizabeth was in a Commissioned state......however the World Media conveniently omitted any reference to this

The video footage of the Sailors on the deck with the landed Drone at their feet was splashed across the Australian media -

There are more than 3 Phalanx Mod 0 CIWS [last years model? ] in shipping containers on British soil......they could have been simply bolted on prior to the vessels departure from the Builders Yard

I cannot comment about the type of Rifles your British Sailors are provided with [the Media quoted 303's  O0.....]......

Small arms are small arms & were not under my portfolio of Above Water Weapons maintenance, however Phalanx Mod O CIWS were

Derek

PS...it will be interesting to see if the PofW suffers the same build/armament/trial/schedule %)
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Rob47

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2018, 11:42:21 PM »

'three shiny new Phalanx guns plugged in'...[yes true, they are literally Plug & Play]

Yes UBN...I have raised this a few times......it must have been embarrassing during earlier trials when that $200 - 2 ft diameter Media sponsored radio controlled model Drone landed on her deck & Elizabeth's only defences were a couple of Sailors with 303 rifles  :embarrassed:

Derek

303 rifles, which QE we talking about, 303 gone with the Ark {-)
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 05:46:22 AM »

Apologies to any members reading .....have just recalled the remnants of the Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carrier/Drone incident via Google

1. some reports still incorrectly term the vessel as HMS, when it is acknowledged the vessel was not yet Commissioned into the RN 
2. the drone is now listed in the UK press as being a 300 Pound model
3. numerous UK press and Australian Press reports & video imaging of the incident is now non existent or deleted
4. the specific images of RN Sailors with hand rifles pointed at the drone standing stationary on the vessel deck are amazingly non existent

.... "the Phalanx were not scheduled to be fitted" ...I was not aware that the vessel build time line schedule of the dates of such weapons fitting or installation was ever made available to the general public....however naturally will eat my words  :P if such a document is proved to exist  >>:-(
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2018, 06:23:45 AM »

Scheduled may not have been the best word to use but your in depth research will have  shown that much of the fitting out equipment due to be installed at Rosyth was in fact deferred until the ship reached Portsmouth to save the cost of re docking her on the Forth.


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Baldrick

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2018, 03:57:40 PM »

A few months ago when I visited the Historic Dockyard the Queen Elizabeth was docked and it was very noticeable that the flight deck was being patrolled by crew (?Marines) with automatic rifles akimbo and the dock area around was constantly being circled by a fast rib with seamen similarly armed
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2018, 04:07:30 PM »

Back in the 90s when I had my own boat it was possible to motor within almost arms reach of the RY Britannia to confirm that she did indeed have a high gloss hull. QE usually has two Ministry of Defence launches in immediate proximity with armed guards and there is usually a third boat prowling around as well.
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Onetenor

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2018, 04:35:27 PM »

The RIB was probably manned by Marines too. :-))
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2018, 08:14:54 PM »


Even if she had her CIWS fitted, I doubt they would have wasted multiples of £24 per round shooting the drone down especially in Portsmouth Harbour.



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littoralcombat

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2018, 06:41:54 AM »

The reality is Derek, that anyone with a few hundred Dollars to buy a drone, combined with either a lack of understanding of the law or a willingness to break it, could perform the same stunt at any location where a Navy ship is moored. That includes either Fleet Base East or Fleet Base West in Australia. Phalanx, small arms regardless, unless the Nation was on a War footing with all systems manned. Even then, they would be likely to succeed.

 O0
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rem2007

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2018, 07:58:32 PM »

...oh my, what a drastic turn of events, how many times have drunken American sailors been out and about the world...please BBC this is not headline news.....




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45463703
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TailUK

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2018, 08:10:05 PM »

Agreed, it's not news.  Sailors have been getting legless and pi**ing up against palm trees since before Nelson was a boy.  The BBC must have decided that they can't do anything against Russian agents so have to go for the humble British matelot instead.  "You're the BBC, you're supposed to be supporting the Royal Navy not running it down!"
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Rob47

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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2018, 10:47:15 PM »


Just read the sheriffs report and it is less dramatic than the biased broadcasting service, also a couple of inn keepers said they had no problems, sailors come in and end up fighting each other not the locals, then pick their teeth from the floor and shake hands.  Nothing new and its as it always has been.


Bob
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