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Author Topic: side lever engine cira 1840s  (Read 9131 times)

southsteyne2

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2018, 08:29:08 PM »

Watching with great interest as I have a friend who does 3d printing and casting ,and I presume you may be thinking the same so here is a vid of a working model  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBfHfl4z_bg
Cheers and merry Christmas and happy new year to allJohn
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2019, 05:28:01 PM »


more work has been done on building the 3d engine model


here is the bed plate the engine sits on



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2019, 05:31:01 PM »


with the bed plate now the frame can be joined to the plate



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2019, 05:35:13 PM »


there is an error in the design the well under the plate is where the water goes once it is condensed then from there it is pumped back to the boiler. As you can see the square between the P blocks where the condenser goes is solid. I don't think that is correct. to the right is the circle were the pump bolts to the plate again there is no access to the water well. oops!



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2019, 05:36:50 PM »


back to the drawing board to see what went wrong
first looking at the original 1839 drawing



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2019, 05:39:11 PM »


I think this is how it should be


the blue areas are open to the well and the gray areas are where the condenser and pump bolt to



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2019, 05:42:04 PM »


my first thought was the yellow area is open but on second thought the light green areas between the condenser and pump would be open. so I am going back to the other setup of 2 openings under the condenser and pump


any thoughts on this?
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2019, 05:46:11 PM »


one more thing to ponder those P-blocks are what the shaft for the lever fits into. There is a lever on both sides of the engine. Between these P-blocks is the condenser. So the question is does the shaft run from P-block to P-block and through the condenser OR is the shaft short and just rides in the P-block?



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2019, 05:52:57 PM »


the engines are mounted in the hull sitting on beams that run along the side of the bedplate then the water well sits between these beams.



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2019, 06:03:13 PM »


the reason I question the lever shaft is because there are circles drawn on the sides of the condenser
and they line up perfect with the P-blocks



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grendel

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2019, 09:16:12 PM »

that does appear that the shaft runs through a tube that spans the condenser, the section through shows that tube.
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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2019, 09:38:47 PM »

Dave...I believe your 'unknown part' may be a 75" diameter oval profiled in height, cast, hollow valve disk with a circular seal cavity at top & bottom


Reference is made to a Cast Iron composite material and cut diagonally as is a cast iron piston ring to fit and seal from these cavities



This Drawing is references as Section B , however shows no porting. An additional sectional Drawing of this disk would confirm porting functionality


It could be that this rotary disk is the main admission valve for the cylinder...although the complexity baffles


The top face of this valve disk matches the 75" diameter and curvature of the cylinder cap which has the fixed admission cast port 


Sheet 7 nominates the technical term  Birds Eye view  O0  of the cylinder bottom..... [Elias W Copeland s Steam Engineer - New York 31/12/1839]




It would be interesting to see a full size copy of Sheet 7, and compare to Sheet 17


Derek
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Derek Warner

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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2019, 10:21:38 PM »

All of the words here are legible  %)  and sort of make sense, although it would be interesting to see.... DD Composition Listings

Is the upper and lower profile of the valve disk a uniform 3 1/32" on a 75" ellipse?
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Derek Warner

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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2019, 06:38:57 PM »


ok a little fiddle about with the bed plate and here is a corrected version with the openings for the condenser and pump


what makes this project interesting is the engineering challenges, you think hum there is a "well" how does the water get from the condenser into the well and back out to the boiler. It needs access.


with 3d modeling you can see the parts inside and out and all around this gives you the ideas how it all might work.





oops again I just noticed there are NO bolt holding the P block to the plate and no bolts on top of the P block
now it is time to move on to the cylinder this is going to be tough job figuring it out


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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2019, 12:17:26 AM »

Dave....spent a few hours last night looking at the Drawing files posted via PM......


Clearly there must have been quite a number of additional Drawings associated with the Series No 17 showing both Elevation and End Elevation sections through the assembled engine

It is possible that these were missed or omitted during archieving ...however this remains unknown


There is a Drawing of components that relate to a Steam Locomotive wheel drive in amongst the Side Lever engine parts

So, about the only additional offering is that this 75" diameter contoured Disk Plate is actually married with an 11 1/2 " x 8 1/2" diameter, tapered rotary Plug Valve

There are a number of individual Plug Valve [plugs] shown, however I did not find a generic plug with a dimension table

It is more than fair to acknowledge I am still more than a little lost >>:-( with some of these engine parts, however will continue to watch the thread with great interest

Derek
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2019, 04:00:17 PM »

when the plans were found some of the drawings were far to delicate to un roll and copy and some were missing.
When the navy built the first 2 steam war ships they used a vertical gothic style in one ship and a horizonal engine in the other. The navy favored the horizonal type engines so the one being modeled is a one off one of a kind. However, in England this type of engine was quite common but finding plans proved to be very difficult. Here in the states there is one example in the Henry Ford museum built the same year as the one being modeled.
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2019, 04:10:57 PM »


the historical report on the Henry ford engine



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2019, 04:15:37 PM »

Because the engine drawings are incomplete there is no way to historically reproduce the engine exactly as built. The next best thing is to model what pieces and parts that did survive and fill in the blanks with engineering technology of the period by using other examples.
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2019, 03:14:05 PM »


here are two drawings from the set



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2019, 03:17:09 PM »


taking a look at the museum engine it looks like those drawings posted above could be these parts just a different style OR NOT


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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2019, 03:30:18 PM »


here is another engine used as a pump dated circa 1830s  it is the same basic setup 2 pillars a horizonal shaft and levers



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #96 on: January 29, 2019, 07:36:39 PM »


work continues and the cylinder has been created and set in place.



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2019, 07:38:17 PM »



more views
you can see in these views where the in and out ports for the steam will bolt to. It is that long open area at the top

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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2019, 09:50:22 PM »


I have so many parts to this engine I am thinking maybe a diorama of the ship under construction showing the engines parts being assembled.
Then the thought occurs to me how was such an engine built in 1839? Just the frames were 18 tons and 20 feet long how were these stood up on end, placed on the 10 ton bedplate sitting on the floor timbers of the hull?


I thought hum maybe a gantry but that would just span the hull so how did the gantry pick up and move the parts? a crane maybe? but it has to be moveable.
where there steam cranes in use in shipyards in 1839? or was the entire job done by ropes and pully system?


any ideas from the crowd?
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