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Author Topic: side lever engine cira 1840s  (Read 14519 times)

daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2019, 02:08:27 PM »


what brought this project to a screaming halt is I can not figure out how the steam gets into the cylinder and the exhaust gets out.  There are 2 steam boxes one at the bottom of the cylinder and one at the top.


here is the top one


notice there is no opening for steam to inter the box. The long opening attaches to the cylinder.

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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2019, 02:11:10 PM »


and now here is the bottom steam box again notice there is no opening for steam to inter or exit. the box.



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2019, 02:21:13 PM »


every steam box example I found has a valve but the one above does not.

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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #128 on: May 27, 2019, 02:23:51 PM »


another example



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #129 on: May 27, 2019, 03:06:54 PM »


here is the type of valve system used on this engine and it still does not answer the question for the intake and exhaust of the steam from the cylinder


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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2019, 11:19:08 PM »

Dave....


Your image mbm8.jpg below displays the double bell steam inlet and exhaust valving........are you comfortable with the understanding of the valve motions and functions?


It also displays diagrammatically [in the Plan view] the steam inlet and exhaust for the cylinder


Your rendered of the images also display the externals -  push rods of the same type of double bell valving....your uvc3.jpg shows the valve internals within the steam box


It also displays the large rectangular steam interface protrusion that marries up to the corresponding interface 


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Derek Warner

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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #131 on: May 28, 2019, 01:45:55 PM »


Your image
mbm8.jpg
below displays the double bell steam inlet and exhaust valving........are you comfortable with the understanding of the valve motions and functions?



actually no what I am doing is drawing and modeling the engine based on very little understanding of how it works or for that matter what some of the parts are and how they fit to one another.


take for example the original drawings of the above steam boxes




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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #132 on: May 28, 2019, 01:47:00 PM »


here is a close up of the text in the upper left corner



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #133 on: May 28, 2019, 01:48:30 PM »


and this part ?



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2019, 01:50:47 PM »


and the valve parts



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #135 on: May 28, 2019, 01:56:50 PM »

I got how the steam boxes join the cylinder ignore those columns those are totally wrong part in the wrong place. so I know how the steam goes from the steam chests into the cylinder and back out. The question I have is how does the steam get into the stream chest if there is no valve or steam pipe connection in the steam box?
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #136 on: May 28, 2019, 02:03:16 PM »


then this part keeps me up at night it has the same relief pattern as on the steam boxes so it is a structural part, but where does it go?


oddly enough going by measurements it does match yo to this part but that is a wild guess



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #137 on: May 28, 2019, 02:05:12 PM »


I thought I solved the mystery of how the steam goes into and out of the steam chest by looking at this illustration. The problem with this is there is no room from the engines bedplate to the bottom of the hull for steam pipes. Then I thought what if I turned this upside down and the steam pipes from the boiler and to the condenser are on top


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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2019, 03:33:54 AM »

Dave......have found on the CSEE alternate WEB site one of the Drawings you posted which explains the functionality of the Double Bell or Double Bonnet valve arrangement


It is all to do with using equal low pressures to pilot the respective valves, but by using larger effective diameters ...so the forces required on the associated mechanism are still relatively low


Look carefully at the Drawing diameter dimensions below...there is a 1" differential on diameters in each case between the pilot stage and the lift valve stage 


Right hand side =         Inlet         upper lift   = 13 3/4", lower pilot = 14 3/4"
Left hand side =           Exhaust    upper pilot = 14/3/4", lower lift   = 13 3/4"


I will now go over to the CSEE site as it aligns more with your specific project task


Derek
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #139 on: August 03, 2019, 06:41:10 PM »


I have moved on to the boilers for this engine
starting with a cross section of the very delicate original drawing I traced it in CAD and made corrections as I drew it



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2019, 06:43:43 PM »


next drawing I did a top view of the layout from the midsection of the hull. It looks like the 2 boilers are sitting at and angle with a steam dome in the middle and the stack sitting on this dome which spans both boilers.



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #141 on: August 03, 2019, 06:53:34 PM »


there are 2 ways this boiler can operate 1 is the boiler is filled with water and hot gas and smoke go through the tubes but how is the gas and smoke directed to the stack?
a second way is the water goes through the tubes and heated by the fire box this works for the gas and smoke but how does the steam get from the tubes to the steam dome and out to the engine?



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #142 on: August 03, 2019, 06:54:57 PM »


as the CAD drawings are done in detail the file is then used to create 3 D models



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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #143 on: August 20, 2019, 03:33:26 PM »


by looking at the drawings can anyone tell me what this wheel should look like?


there are 2 round plates one small one large does the drawing show both sides of one plate?


how do the paddles attach to the wheel?


I assume there are 3 wheels with the larger of the 2 round plates being the center hub.


does anyone know of any images or drawings showing a wheel together?



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grendel

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #144 on: August 20, 2019, 07:04:39 PM »

looks to me that it shows 2 wheel plates, 3 views of each, both sides and an edge view.
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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #145 on: August 21, 2019, 03:39:36 AM »

 >>:-( ...the wheel Drawings for the Mississippi are as mysterious as the boiler Drawings


One of the first issues I see when attempting to visualise an Isometric [or 3D model] with the wheel assembly is each hub has a different number of wheel spokes......


I count 42 & 21 respectively.....so this is a divisible 2:1 ratio.........


In the end elevation view of the 42 spoke in a V pattern, the outer right hand appears to be riveted to another rim, so possibly the 21 spoked hub......as marked up


The attachment of the paddle blades is via the hooked forged bolts....with the hook latching into the next spaced frame spoke......I think the scaling and representation of the hooked bolts belays their real size in relation to the other wheel components

Derek
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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #146 on: October 12, 2019, 03:43:14 PM »


looking at the cross section I do not understand what the draftsman is trying to show. If these are round plates then the cross section should look the same top and bottom, but they are different which is the part I do not understand why.







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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #147 on: October 12, 2019, 03:47:17 PM »


I thought maybe these are 2 separate plates back to back with the top part section drawing showing the plate to the left and the bottom part showing the plate on the right.
I found images showing the hub of a water wheel and right down the center of the edge is a seam, or so it looks.







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daves

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #148 on: October 12, 2019, 03:49:09 PM »



looking at the center hub the cross section is drawn the same top and bottom unlike the outer hub




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derekwarner

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Re: side lever engine cira 1840s
« Reply #149 on: October 12, 2019, 11:41:20 PM »

Dave....in the earlier end elevation [waterwheel hub2] view we see


a. the 1/2 section of the hub disk - in the top half is section from centre to 12.00 o'clock [vertical]
b. the 1/2 section of the hub disk - in the bottom half is section from centre to about 7.00 o'clock [anticlockwise from the vertical past 6.00 o'clock]
So these views depict the varying thickness and profile of the disk plate, then the disk plate through a Web...etc

My markups should clarify this................Derek

[PS......the stern wheel images 76 to 81 below have no relevance to the Mississippi side wheels]

[for what ever reason, I am now experiencing difficulty in opening images in the CSEE web site]
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Derek Warner

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