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Author Topic: Recent Collision  (Read 2159 times)

Colin Bishop

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Recent Collision
« on: October 12, 2018, 09:36:39 am »

Re the photos of the torpedoed US cruisers. Here is a collision which happened the other day:
https://gcaptain.com/watch-ais-animation-shows-mediterranean-ship-collision/
Colin
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 10:05:15 am »

 
Bridge crew asleep... eating noodles?!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 10:11:23 am »

Away with the ferries obviously.....
Colin
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TailUK

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 10:44:03 am »

At night or in fog you could understand that collisions happen even with Radar.  How do 2 ships collide in broad daylight on a mirror flat calm.  It beggars the imagination.
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Neil

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 11:53:11 am »


"T" Boned......in a big way......can't say anything else....except just unbelievable


there'll be captain, 1st, 2nd and 3rd officer jobs going on Monday morning %% %%
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tigertiger

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 02:58:58 pm »

I am ignorant. How many lights does a container ship at anchor show at night?
Has there been any mention of weather conditions at the time of collision?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 04:12:31 pm »

The ferry was deeply embedded into the container ship.
https://gcaptain.com/ulysse-separated-from-csl-virginia-after-collision-in-mediterranean/
Underwater video on this link is interesting:
https://safety4sea.com/ferry-separated-from-container-ship-in-corsica/
Reports say that the sea was calm and visibility good. Collision happened at 7:30am local time so presumably daylight.
Colin
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Neil

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 04:13:10 pm »

I am ignorant. How many lights does a container ship at anchor show at night?
Has there been any mention of weather conditions at the time of collision?



when entering or leaving port, unless under command of a pilot the moving ship has to have on bridge watch at all time one senior and one junior officer plus the helmsman[according to my daughter who was until recently a deck officer cadet] according to international Colregs.
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tigertiger

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 04:26:26 pm »

I am assuming poor light, as the newspaper did say before dawn. It does look like a proper watch was not being kept. How much light would the anchored ship be carrying, though?
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Neil

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 04:29:36 pm »

Lights Required for All Vessels When Not Underway.

All vessels are required to display a white light visible in all directions whenever they are moored or anchored outside a designated mooring area between sunset and sunrise.
I would presume that a vessel as long as the Container ship is, one would be required bow and stern masts.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 04:34:20 pm »

Well, it would certainly need to be carrying an all round white anchor light. I can't speak for the Med but the ships that lie anchored off the Isle of Wight for quite long periods are always ablaze with deck and accommodation lights at night.
Sunrise in Corsica today was 7:34 local time so there should have been adequate light a few days back.

Colin
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Neil

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 04:37:43 pm »

Well, it would certainly need to be carrying an all round white anchor light. I can't speak for the Med but the ships that lie anchored off the Isle of Wight for quite long periods are always ablaze with deck and accommodation lights at night.
Sunrise in Corsica today was 7:34 local time so there should have been adequate light a few days back.

Colin



those are international  collision regulations Colin and should be adhered to world wide.....whether they are or not will come out at an enquiry.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2018, 05:02:14 pm »

I was referring to the decklights Neil, not the mandatory nav lights.
I know the Colregs - I used to own a boat!

Colin
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John W E

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2018, 05:18:23 pm »


what they aren't telling you is that the ship at anchor had a Klingon cloaking device switched on - so nobugger could see it :-)


What makes us really wonder - are too many crew members relying on technology rather than the human eye - the question has to be asked :-) 


John
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derekwarner

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2018, 10:20:57 pm »

The ferry would have water tight bulk head in the hydraulic machinery space back from the forepaek, although it would be amazing if it were closed up.......the container ship does not have tight bulkheads as the hull construction is cellular x the single or double width of the standard Container


Beyond comprehension or belief.....but it's only News this week....what happened to the US Destroyer Fitzgerald that was involved in a hit/ram with the Japanese ACX Crystal commercial vessel about a year ago?....obviously not news worthy even now in the light of this mishap


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/world/asia/destroyer-fitzgerald-collision.html

So I blame the media >>:-(
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Derek Warner

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2018, 10:32:03 pm »

Vehicle ferries with bow doors normally have a strong secondary door behind them on the vehicle deck so have a very strong structure above water level. Looking at the underwater video it appears that the bulbous bow of the ferry acted a bit like the ram on an old fashioned battleship and probably took the brunt of the impact.

The ferry was still able to operate its engines afterwards so the impact wasn't abrupt enopugh to shear engine mountings etc. As Derek says, the construction of the container ship may have helped cushion the impact to some extent.

When you look at the photos the view from the ferry bridge must have been pretty frightening at the last moment.

Colin
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Neil

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2018, 10:57:48 pm »

I was referring to the decklights Neil, not the mandatory nav lights.
I know the Colregs - I used to own a boat!

Colin




therefore self explanatory, Colin.....and I think the original question by tigertiger was what lights should it have been showing, not what took the fancy of those on watch to show such as deck lights....no need to show them at all, if not in Colregs.


by the way, I also owned a boat at one time.
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derekwarner

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2018, 10:59:42 pm »

From images the WEB site for the ULYSSE [IMO 9142459] would suggest she has a conventional bow and without a bow Door or Ramp...........


So the previous comment of machinery space at the bow appears valid ............Derek

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:766412/mmsi:672248000/imo:9142459/vessel:ULYSSE


PS....there are 28 photographs of MV ULYSSE on the WEB site

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Derek Warner

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2018, 11:27:29 pm »

Yes, you are right there Derek, she does seem to be a stern loader only which is a bit unusual althoug ferries do commonly berth stern on in the virtually tideless Med. She does have the bulbous bow though and it looks from the photos that the above deck bow has crumpled and the bulb has penetrated the container ship hull. I assume the bulkhead you are referring to is also effectively the collision bulkhead?

Neil, I think TTs point was how visible the container ship was. Presumably it would have been showing the anchor light but I was simply making the point that anchored ships are frequently lit up like a Brock's display, certainly around this part of the world. But this might not have been the case here. No doubt the facts will emerge in due course. I agree that there should have been watchkeepers on duty on the ferry so how they failed to see the container ship is extraordinary. There should have been radar proximity alarms as well as already mentioned.


Colin


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Shipmate60

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2018, 01:14:37 pm »

It is usual when at anchor for the duty deck officer to turn on the deck lights for safety.
The ferry should have had a bridge watch and the radar collision warning set.
With the damage and angle it does look like the ferry took no avoiding action so might point to an unmanned bridge or officer "distracted".




Bob
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dodes

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2018, 08:54:10 pm »

Perhaps, ! the O/W of the Ferry was reading the latest edition of Captain Underpants or was engaged behind the chart table curtain on instructing a new female member of crew. I went up on a bridge once to find the O/W sitting in the corner trying to sing horrendously a beatle song in thick fog off Start Point, oblivious to surrounding traffic at night, so nothing surprises me.
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dodes

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2018, 08:55:54 pm »

I forgot to say he was sitting on the command chair with a guitar reading intently a music book!!!!
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tugsov

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2018, 05:35:12 am »

I was referring to the decklights Neil, not the mandatory nav lights.
I know the Colregs - I used to own a boat!

Colin


I think you'll find deck lights are also mandatory for a vessel the size of the container ship. Please refer to rule 30:


(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level that the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 m in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 m and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

It will be interesting to see the cause. I'm sure it will come down to an OOW who is distracted by some cause or who is fatigued or some such. But also don't forget, even at anchor the container should have been keeping a good watch by sight and hearing as well as radar etc. There will be a portion of blame on both sides...
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John W E

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2018, 06:24:16 pm »


See there has been another mishap with one of the Isle of Wight Ferries - running down a few yachts in fog - makes ya wonder if there is a disease amongst radars and ferries doesn't it :-)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-45932147


John
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Recent Collision
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2018, 06:38:23 pm »

Tugsov,
My ColRegs instruction applied to small craft but I can appreciate why decklights are mandatory on larger vessels.
As far as blame is concerned, even if the container ship was keeping a good watch the only action they could have taken was to radio the oncoming ferry and it is possible that their message would not have been received.
John,
That is the second collision that a Red Funnel ferry has had within a month at Cowes. It is certainly a crowded harbour and I know it well, you have to be really careful when transiting in a small boat. It's still hard to understand how the ferry ended up where it did though. A few years ago we were on the Queen Mary 2 to New York and the harbour was blanketed by thick fog, and I mean really thick. After going under the Verazzano Narrows bridge you couldn't see a thing but an hour later the quayside at the Red Hook berth appeared just a few feet away as the ship docked. Amazingly we were also heading in the opposite direction. The ship had approached the berth, turned round 180 degrees and come alongside using only electronic navigation aids.
Colin
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