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Author Topic: steam test equipment  (Read 2739 times)

Klunk

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steam test equipment
« on: December 14, 2018, 03:02:37 am »

right, I'm after some info on what i need for steam test equipment. I know I will need a calibrated pressure gauge, a means of hydraulically presurising the boiler, blanking playes etc,  but where do i get this stuff from,  plus anything else i need! this us to test to the orange book, volume 2 and volume 3.
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derekwarner

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 07:55:25 am »

Hey Klunk....


Rather than suggest any of what you are aware of in Volume 2 of your 2018 UK Boiler Test Code, why not talk with the local Club or Association Boiler inspector who will ultimately witness test the boiler


This will eliminate any confusion or heartache

Derek.......[I needed a pump to perform the boiler hydro-static boiler test, so made it into a fixture]



 
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2018, 08:11:19 am »

hi Derek,  our test equipment is defunct and very old, and I'm not even sure where it is anymore. we have several stwam boats that need testing, but i want to get a new set of equipment, hence the question. the idea being that I will train up to be competent to take up the mantle
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Stan

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2018, 08:42:49 am »

Model Boats has run many articles on the subject of steam this may help with your questions.




Stan
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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2018, 08:56:01 am »

yep read them and have all volumes of the orange book. whilst I understand the principles involved, it does not explain where to get any iems!
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coch y bonddu

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 11:19:22 am »

Oh Klunk come on m8 THINK....lets see ah ha yes what about our ex toothless wonder O0 O0 {-) {-) {-)  of the steam world ...Uncle Phil he most defo will be able to help you if he cant well simply give up.




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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 12:12:05 pm »

Dave you know how hard it is to get hold of him
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pendlesteam

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 12:17:20 pm »

You can get hand pump with gauge (get it calibrated) from ebay less than £30 - search central heating pressure test, plugs can be bought from Clevedon Steam. PM me if you need more help.Nigel Pendle Steam Boilers
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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 12:23:55 pm »

chčers
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derekwarner

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2018, 12:38:53 pm »

Klunk.....I come from a lifetimes background in hydraulic fluid engineering from industrial, to marine, to Naval and finally to steel systems ..


Universally all fluid sealing systems in these domains be they to ISO, BS or ANZIS Standards, now dictate that the recommended sealing of fluid joints is via soft sealing [O-Rings, WD or Bonded Dowty seals]


The only engineering group that still live in the Dark Ages of annealed copper washers for test equipment are the Fraternity of Model Steam Boiler Inspectors ....yes in the UK and Australia


If your Club do get the advantage of new equipment, I am sure you will be aware of the ease and sensibility of soft sealing for our cold or ambient temperature test requirements


Derek
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Steam Boat Willie

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2018, 04:27:00 pm »

Pump something like this:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Manual-Water-Pressure-Test-Pump-Hydraulic-Plumbers-RP50-Pipeline-Leakage-System/323553001811?hash=item4b55430153:g:rZIAAOSwB9Fb6ehd:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true


Pressure gauge from:


http://www.trentinstruments.co.uk/


Trent can supply a calibrated and certificated gauge and can recertificate every two years.


The gauge on the pump will obviously need to be replaced with the certificated one.


Plugs from any model steam supplier, you will slowly collect a selection of varying threads and diameters for all possible boilers you come across however it is the responsibility of the owner to prepare the boiler for testing, whether that be a hydraulic test or a steam test, so you shouldn't need much in the way of plugs.


You need to go through your clubs committee to put you forward to their affiliated society such as Southern Federation, NAME, MBPA, Midland federation, etc...etc... Who will then register you.  It would then be worthwhile making contact with your affiliated society and attend at least one of their Boiler Inspector's seminars.
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2018, 05:25:59 am »

Wot do you mean hard to get hold of  :} :} :} :} :}


The new MPBA boiler testing rules have now been updated and will be available from January, and believe  me are  much easier to under stand than the orange books  :-))



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Steam Boat Willie

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2018, 10:37:09 am »

You need to ask your club whether they comply with the Boiler Test Code (Orange Book) or whether they comply with the MBPA rules.  This should have been discussed between your club and their insurance company at some point, assuming you are covered for the use of steam powered models.


If not the first step is to ask the club insurer which set of rules they are happy to accept to insure the use of steam models at your facility.  If you use Footman James or Walker Midgley they are both familiar with the processes.  If this is all already in place then you need to know which set of rules to apply.
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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2018, 10:52:23 am »

lol. not all insurers ask for steam certificates. we are in that fortunate situation! they are aware we have steam engines in boats and are also aware there is no legal requirement for our type of boilers. they pointed this out to us and it has been discussed every year we update our insurance with to ensure its still within the insurance. as a club we ate dping this for our own piece of mind.
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Steam Boat Willie

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2018, 01:16:36 pm »

I'm afraid you have lost me completely with your comment, "and are also aware there is no legal requirement for our type of boilers", which is complete gibberish.  Despite saying you have read the Boiler Test Code books you can still come out with such a comment.

Consequently as they say "I'm out!"




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Colin Bishop

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2018, 01:33:59 pm »

I think it is clear enough thet Klunk meant no legal requirement for testing....
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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2018, 03:59:29 pm »

right let's clear this up. tjis is what it states very clearly, in the law.

1.2 Legal requirements, such as the Pressure Systems Safety
Regulations 2000 (PSSR), do not normally apply to persons
operating pressure equipment as a hobby activity. However the
Health and Safety Executive considers it good practice for persons
using such equipment to provide the same level of health and
safety protection as they would if they were duty holders under the
Regulations.

this is NOT paraphrased, it is the complete sentence lifted from the document.
now I do agree with the safety checks under the different federations, but as i say, and as it says above there is no legal reason for testing commercial model  boilers for boats, as they are too low in pressure. after looking at a central heating boiler, unless you are a landlord,  there is no legal requirement to have it tested at a certain periodical time.
thus i stand by my statement, unless it is a home built boiler where it should be tested. there are obviously other considerations to take into account  of you operate model railway steam engines, which is not what we are discussing.
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2018, 05:54:13 pm »

I think you have got a bit confused Pete, leaving aside the PSSR we in the model side of things still comply to HSE which we have produced over the years to various insurance company's agreement. It was us (modellers) who first approached the the insurance company's when we (at that time time the MPBA....the model power boat association ) first put the then guidelines now followed by rules in place. At that time nearly all clubs were associated to the MPBA and therefore there were no real issues. Now as we know these days things have changed and we live in a "NANNY" state and things have got a little more confusing, but for the moment stick to MPBA rules and you can't go wrong (boating wise that is.....who knows about trains...... %%
Happy to come and talk to your club..........KISS....       Not orange at the moment.    :-))


Me .........who's not allowed in the workshop today......... :((








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Klunk

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Re: steam test equipment
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2018, 06:42:11 pm »

and as i have said before. there is no legal reason for the low pressure commercial boilers  we use to be legally tested.  i have never disagreed with the testing, hence myself doing the boiler testing etc, which i will speak to you about privately Phil. our insurance company have said they go by pssr, not by the modelling federation standards. it only affects us going to other clubs with steam boats (once in a blue moon). not only that, but depending on the federation or society depends on what is in their Book. the new orange book, if you read through it, is a hell of a lot better and standardised for us model boaters. even to the the extent that mamod and similar boilers are now categorised. the biggest problem i have now encountered is not insurance companies, but councils and their barristers, who through misinformation, (ie model boat boilers go boom when they run dry), who will not do any research into it.
so legally, as i stayed and by the LAWS in this country, you do not legally have to have a model commercial boiler tested after its 2 or 3 year certificate has run out of said boiler DOES NOT MEET THE PSSR RULES. having said that I Wholeheartedly, endorse the testing of all homemade boilers (as they should be tested for compliantcy ) and all boilers out of manufacturers certificates for H and S. there is a major difference between the law and a self governing testing system.
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