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Author Topic: Steam engine from China qb3  (Read 16613 times)

Bernhard

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Steam engine from China qb3
« on: February 24, 2019, 11:17:57 am »

Hi,, Any have one of this steam engine made in China by Jin...and if,,,are the nice good runner


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Vertical-cylinder-steam-engine-Live-Steam-Q3B/151929825195?hash=item235fb927ab:g:paUAAOSwUdlWgAyA


Regards Bernhard

Admin: New Vertical cylinder steam engine Live Steam Q3B - £348.00











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KNO3

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 09:40:22 pm »

Looks like a copy of a Hemmens engine. But can't say how it runs.
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Bernhard

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 08:17:45 am »

 :-))  Yes .. Max2  red one,,    ,, i have ordre 1 from china,,,but i cant find eny on running on youtube,,


   
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carlfmiller

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2019, 06:15:55 am »

Well I just joined the forum so I can post almost the same question. I am taking a little gamble that Jin at Microcosm is making a good product and I just ordered this steam plant shown in the photos below.  It seems like a very good value. The 2 cyl slide valve is spec'd at 12mm bore and 13mm stroke. I spoke to a man in Florida who has the engine (he called the M29, but I don't know how) and says it runs very smoothly. But I think Ed is using just air, so no word about the steam plant as an entity.  The boiler is 80mm dia x 120mm L. Jin says it operates at 2.76 bar.  It holds 420 ml water, and I don't intend to add a feed pump so it's just a guess right now as to whether I will get a decent run time (10 minutes I hope)  from it on my new boat.  This will be a 50" strip-planked shallow draft hull, originally designed for RC sailboat (Google Tippecanoe T50) but I will add  full length keel/skeg and a barndoor rudder.


I don't know how long this engine has been in production and it differs from the others in this post, but if anybody has opinions or experience with it I would love to hear it. I have not much steam experience (I'll tell about my Mildura in a separate post) so I am taking a guess that this engine will be suitable for the launch I am making. Cecilia will be light weight and easily driven, and I bought 60mm 3-blade prop for her....so ....I better get busy and build it.
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KNO3

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2019, 08:19:30 am »

Nice looking plant. I haven't tested any of Jin's engines, so can't comment on the quality. The boiler capacity of 420 ml doesn't seem to great for such a big engine.
Raphael from France has some of Jin's engines, including one like yours, and has put up a few videos on Youtube. You could ask him if he's pleased with it.
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rhavrane

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2019, 10:59:19 am »

Bonjour,
I have the first version of this steam plant in a tug : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO16806-3pM I just changed the oil lubricator because I did not like its initial position out of the steam flow : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOgJV8Xc7qU, I siad that to Jin and I see he has taken my remark in account. Running at 1,5/2  bars (20/30 PSI) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbSYRWHUCds I have an autonomy of about 20 minutes and I like using the whistle  O0
I also have an oscillating machine in another tug : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vutlswFW4X4 and it has a little problem with a piston axle which generates a steam leak.
The difficulty with China, not only with Jin, is after sales. if you have to return a product, it costs a lot...
Oh, I also have this funny accessory  :-))  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as0Ct_MQ9_8
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
Membre de l'Offshore Club de Paris : http://site-ocparis.wifeo.com/
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane

Bernhard

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 01:24:58 pm »

hi  Got the q3b  from China,,looks and feel ok a heavy small engine,,so try it on air first,,no revers works,,and i try to find the timing,,have to email Jin,,and a few days got the timing,,so ,,works with very slow revers,,so try on steam  ,,30 psi,,no revers,,and after a few minuts it stop,,have to open it ,,one piston vas lose,,
I had to separate it to correct the error..and on steam again,,run a few minuts,,now the other piston get loose,,I had to separate it, to correct the error again,
but no revers only very littel,,and the engine eat the steam fast,,i email Jin,, he sai that the engine have that construction there so it  have not the same,,speed on revers,,i have get enof and spend times on this ,,so i didnt wont it,,Jin said i can send it to Rafhael in France,,he did a test,,and sai the same,no revers work,,
so i got a full refund from Jin,,only it have cost me 22 us to send it to france,,i have ask him to send that 22 back,,let se if he do that,

Regards Bernhard
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carlfmiller

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 06:57:32 pm »

Bernhard's story of his bad time with the Q3B engine must have a been a disappointment for Bernhard a well as Jin. Good to hear at least there was an honest refund.  But it is worth a little follow-up to see what went wrong? Sounds like Bernhard knew what he was doing to fix things but it just got out of hand so maybe Rafael can tell us what really was the problem and could it/did it get get fixed?


I am interested because I have one of Jin's 2 cyl engines coming in the mail to Hawaii, and I do hope it will work, because I have no help here, and very little steam engine experience. This  thread started out talking about Bernhard's engine called Q3B (10 x 12) and I changed the subject a little by asking about Jin's 2-cyl  steam plant which I believe has the M29C  (12 x13) or later. Sent photos. These are different engines.  So I hope mine will not experience the same troubles.


Rafael posted a video of what looks like M29 going very nicely and although I don't have translation for any of the audio except Bonjour, I think he is happy with what it does.  Any other info about this engine and steam plant is appreciated.


Carl
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Bernhard

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 08:51:57 pm »

THANKS Carl..all the videos  i have se om youtupe show that the  engine you have ordre run strong and Nice.. it was the design  on this engine..like Jin sai..
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rhavrane

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 10:43:32 pm »

Bonjour,
Sorry Carl, my Englsh is too poor to make good videos in this langage and there are already good English videos but none in French ok2
I have not the M29C but this steam plant http://www.microcosm-engine.com/new-twocylinder-steam-engine-live-steam-with-steam-boiler-with-p-214.html#.XJ1IlZhKjIU  and  I confirm I have no problem with it, as shown in my videos. Jin sent me the broken parts (water level foot).
I have checked the mechine sent by Bernhard and confirm what he says, there is no reverse. The problem with this machine is that, in its conception, you can not open the reverse box to see if the axle, very accurately machined besides this,correctly or not aligned in both directions face to admission holes in the cylinders. This axle is cylindric and it has a small flat (1 mm depth) which is supposed to make the steam transfer from the pipe to the cylinders on one side or another.
The displacement between forward and reverse is 4-5 mm, the maximum speed id found on less than 1 mm so if there is as I guess it any mistake of 1 mm, the admission does not correspond and the result is teh one we note.
I am not a specialist but I have a significant collection which let me say that the conception of this machine is very original and does not allow any tolerance. As it can't be dismounted, if it is not tested before packaging, the result is a lottery and Bernhard lost.
Jin pays back when he knows that the buyer is honest, this is why he asked Bernhard to send me the machine, and unfortunately for him, some buyers are not like Bernhard and ask their money back for false reasons and keep the products.
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane

ooyah/2

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 11:07:24 pm »

  Raphael General Question.

Does Jin test his engines before sending to buyer.


George.
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southsteyne2

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 12:41:28 am »

Hi All I dont know about the engines but find crucial info on the boilers sadly lacking with no mention of tests performed eg hydraulic ,steam also is there a boiler certificate ,I am not suggesting poor quality however it is a substancial investment and I would expect more detailed information.
Steam Boiler Models For Marine Steam Engine
 [/size] [/size]
 [/size]The machine is Boiler exhaust pipe containing boiler full height 200mm diameter 80mm length 120mm, weight 2.6KG, valve pressure 0.5MPA, boiler capacity 420ML.Boiler surfaces using high-temperature paint, wood inner use insulation materials. Insulation can play a very good role. Steam output pipe modification of the heat recovery unit. Increase thermal insulation.
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rhavrane

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2019, 06:45:51 am »

Bonjour George,
All the products I have bought to Jin were brand new, so I think they are not tested. If they were, the brass would be tarnishedan customers would say they are used...
About boilers, I have not received any hydrolic test certificat with them, but they are not mandatory in France if the boiler contents less than 25 liters, this is perhaps why (I doubt).
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane

carlfmiller

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Re: microcosm test documentation
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2019, 07:40:30 am »

Simple approach here, we have eBay comms to Jin and will ask him the test questions: (I better do it any case before I run the engine!!)


 1) Is the boiler pressure-tested to at least 10bar? (That's 2x the advertised valve pressure, standard safety factor). 2) Has the engine been seen to run for at least several minutes, in both Fwd and Reverse?  (Specify by compressed air or live steam)   3) Is the safety valve set to a known psi/bar value; if not what is recommended? 4) Is the P5 gas flow adjuster (attenuator) been set to a recommended value? Of not, what is recommended? Finally, does your factory apply a "QC" label to the product that tells the consumer that the item is inspected and conforms to specifications?  If not, why not?.  These aspects of manufacturing the Microcosm products will save cost, not add cost, because scrap and returns will be eliminated.


Just a reminder to see the truth of this-- 20 years ago the USA automobile business took a huge nosedive when it started making junky cars which weren't tested and didn't work. Japanese manufacturers were quick to hit the "Total Quality" button and their cars sales were killers because people like cars that work. I'd think same true in China, and Jin seems enterprising and smart and if he is sending untested, nonworking junk that comes back not working, we won't be hearing about his company for long. Note I say IF:  I expect my Microcosm M29 to be stellar!!  Off the soapbox, sorry.


Carl
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MOG8

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 08:46:30 pm »

I own the QB3 engine.
If I well rememver, I was the first buyer of this engine as soon as it appeared on Ebay with an "auction" listing.
It was probably well timed and well tested, at least on compressed air, before putting it on sale. My engine runs as it should and reverses as it should.
I am sorry to read some rightful complaints.
A timing instrution leaflet included with the engine could avoid the Calvary of sending the engine back to the factory thousands miles away with all related problems.
Jin has occupied a void place left with the gradual disappearance of many steam engines firms, mostly from the UK, flooding the market with his engines and accessories, some of them, at a ridiculous high price.
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Giovanni

carlfmiller

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Re: Steam engine from China M29
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2019, 02:11:21 am »

Made my day today-- I received (with Free Shipping if you can believe  it) my M29 complete steam plant from Microcosm today.  :-))   It was well protected and made the transport OK and wow it is nicely made! It is exactly as shown in the photos I posted previously. No detectable flaws or sloppy stuff. Excellent machining all around. I need to study and set up a little, and clarify some of Jin's instructions but when I fire it will post the results. I hope to be as successful as what Rafael showed us on You Tube.


 I did ask Jin about the pressure testing of the boiler, and whether the engine has been seen to run in the factory before being shipped. It sure feels good to my fingers. Will post answers if received.  One quirk; the little 2" dia, refillable butane tank has no "feet" or cradle.  No problem to make something, but what a strange thing to leave off... oh well, keep that price down!


It does seem as if Microcosm has made a bid to be a premier supplier of steam engines 'round the world.


Carl
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southsteyne2

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2019, 03:31:37 am »

Hi All as I belong to one of the largest model boat clubs in Aus The St George Model boat club Sydney ,we have had a few members in early days of Chinese imports engines particularly the cheaper oscillating type suffering sealing problems and excessive steam usage ,fortunately the quality has improved greatly over last few years and have personally purchased from Jin and been very happy with the quality,however there are new kids on the block in China so proceed with caution.Cheers
John
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rhavrane

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2019, 11:19:38 am »

Bonjour Carl,
I wish you will be as happy with your steam plant that I have been with mine. As you will measure it, the autonomy "for me" is low (<= 20 minutes) but this plant operates very well at about 1,5 bars (22 PSI). Powerful, it allows easily a large 4 blades 2,5" (68 mm) steam pitch propeller as shown in one of my videos (sorry again, in French)..
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane

carlfmiller

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Microcosm testing Question
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 04:47:15 am »

There were a few questions to pose to Jin at Microcosm concerning the testing and verification of the boiler and engines there.  I asked these questions:

[/size]-  Is the boiler pressure-tested to at least 10bar? (That's 2x the advertised valve pressure, a standard safety factor). I really am afraid to pressurize the boiler if it has not been pressure tested. (I do not want to be the tester!)
[/size]
[/size][/size]Is the safety valve set to a known psi/bar value; if not what is recommended?
[/size]
[/size]Jin's answer:
[/size]
[/size]"[/size]The boiler we have tested can reach 10BAI pressure, the working pressure of the safety valve is 5 kg."
[/size]
[/size]This sounds to me like a design verification test not a quality test on each unit. But there is no clarification. Note: The boiler is normally operated at .25- 3 mPa so IMO the tested safety margin is pretty high.(Not sure why he calls this kg. The pressure gage reads 0-.5mPa. I assume 10BAI means 10kg)
[/size]
[/size]I also asked several other questions, including whether the engine had been operated in a bench test, with no response.
[/size]
[/size]- Carl
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carlfmiller

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Re: Steam engine from China M29 Complete Steam Plant
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 05:28:32 am »

I am happy to report total success with the steam plant I received this week from Microcosm.   :-))   I already mentioned how nicely it is machined, now I can say how nicely it operates! Hooray for Jin!

To start the operation,  I tightened all the fittings, added oil, lube, water, and butane mix to the new Microcosm M29 steam plant, and lit it on the chimney, first try. Five short minutes later a beautiful little steam engine was humming along like a sewing machine!  Oh my, what joy,

When I first opened the steam valve just a bit, there was no water head from condensate at the start; the engine started turning over immediately. After the initial few slow rpms, I opened the steam stopcock full and did all speed control with the RC steam valve you see in the photo. This is basically “out of the box” or “plug and play” and it was a wonderful experience. I will make a video. Most impressive is the wide speed range and control with the RC valve. Perfect Stevenson reversing even at very slow speed.  Goes like mad at full steam, or barely clicks over at low steam...unbelievable. The P5 gas regulator is a gem—very sensitive and responsive; gas flow changes instantly when the rpms increase or decrease. (How do it know???). At the start before steam was up, the flame was howling; when being regulated at slow rpm, the flame goes down to a whisper. It really works, and was adjusted perfectly, so I am not messing with it!

The boil came up to 40psi in 5 minutes, and the WP stayed exactly at 30+psi the entire run, no matter the speed. I ran it for 25 minutes non-stop or until I thought the water was going off the sightglass. When I shut off the gas, the engine ran for a full 5 more minutes on the existing head of steam. The butane tank used only an 1.2oz  of fuel, (about 1/2 its capacity), and although the tank did chill to 50F the flame never complained, so heating the fuel tank seems not required. Needless to say I am way impressed and happy as I can be. Better quick build that boat for it!!

The only issue is that the pressure gage on the unit  vibrates very badly on its springy siphon tube. (Just like Rafael’s YouTube video, no surprise there). I intend to replace it with a ¾” gage on a short U of a siphon and it won’t shake.


These photos show the gas regulator in its original configuration. I needed to reduce the footprint of the steam plant so it will fit in my planned boat, so the other photo shows the regulator tucked in close  by positioning it above the burner. This way the fuel tank can nestle in close and everything will fit my layout. Adjusting the shape of the copper tubing was very easy.


I will have to say that Jin's english translation of the instructions is pretty hard to understand. I have limited experience with live steam, but without the little I have, this would have been impossible. I am lucky to have a coupe of capable mentors on the forums. And thanks for Rafael's good wishes which came true.

This little engine is a beauty and I’d recommend it to anyone.
[/size]
[/size]I will post a video when it is available.
[/size]
[/size]-Carl
[/size]
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Mark T

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 07:45:24 am »

Well that’s really good to hear I’m glad your happy with the plant. I’m looking forward to seeing your video  :-))   Just out of interest what are the dimensions of the motor?

southsteyne2

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 08:22:07 am »

Looks to be a very neat setup ,my only query is the gas regulator which I can only assume it works on hydraulic pressure as there would be very little steam at the bottom of the sight glass , also you may have to modify the gas feed from the tank so that it can be refilled out of the model.Cheers
John
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carlfmiller

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Fuel and Gas regulator for M29 from China
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 06:57:08 pm »

I wondered about the pressure side of the regulator, I agree no steam there but since there is no way to bleed the air out of the pipe going to to the regulator, there must be air in there?  I guess the air could be bled by loosening the nut at the entry, but I didn't do that and the thing works fine. I will ask Jin if there is a procedure here. He did send spare diaphragms for the regulator, but no explanation of when they should be used, or for which side of the regulator

You can see the wood platform which is epoxied to the bottom of the fuel tank. The tank platform will sit in the boat on studs or with a clamping screw, and be easily removed from the boat for gas refill, once the pipe nut is loosened and the tank can be lifted out.

Mark T, the dimensions of the engine are 4 3/4" L from steam entry to shaft end; 3 1/2" W not counting the exhaust pipe, and 4"H.  The overall  length of the steam plant w/o the gas tank is 12 1/2".  Tnere re some good photos pf the engine on Jin's eBay page at

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Two-cylinder-steam-engine-Live-Steam-with-Steam-Boiler-With-P5/152507501223?hash=item238227caa7:g:O34AAOSw~CFY7Zsw&frcectupt=true

I just found (I wish I had seen it earlier!) Keith Appleton's informative and objective video on this engine, He shows it running smoothly on air, and has quite a few comments --mostly very favorable. I don't know the date, but he shows the M29 engine in detail. Since then, the oiler body is now made from glass, and all the slop in the revering lever is gone.   The video can be seen at  --check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgg7YEf_X5g





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Mark T

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2019, 09:20:25 pm »

Thanks for the dimensions much appreciated  :-))   As for the air in the tube - you need that.  Its a buffer between the very hot steam and the diaphragm.  Just set the pressure as you need it and don't worry about the air compressing as this would be accounted for when you set the pressure.

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Re: Steam engine from China qb3
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 10:28:47 pm »

https://youtu.be/mlnAdeo1dYw


RUNNING ON STEAM,,,

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