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Author Topic: Newbie needing help on everything  (Read 3527 times)

RST

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2019, 06:32:47 PM »

I was going to say that might be a good choice of kit.  I recently finished the 1:48 Merit 80' elco and on the water it's stonking with a 400 brushed motor and 1,600mAh mini 7.2v Ni-Mh (shock horror: not brushless, LiPo or even 2.4Ghz!).


I wouldn't knock the kit too much just yet.  Quite normal for parts to distort slightly*, what answer do you need from the kit supplier?  Not even sure if it's made for R/C so you always have to think laterally when doing so.  From previous experience I wouldn't have the whole deck come off.  On my slightly smaller one I discarded the kit deck and cut one from 1mm polystyrene sheet -saved a small ammount of weight and meant I could cut proper deck openings much easier than cutting the supplied deck.


If you want to continue with having the whole deck release, you might want to think ahead a bit about some extra stiffening (particularly if you hit something), and how you intend to keep water out of the join.  Also, if you're using screws in my experience screws into plastic (polystyrene) always start stripping after they've been in and out a few times.  Might want to think of a way to use captive nuts and small machine screws.

*Initially, the fit of the kit deck on the hull was pretty much the same on my Merit kit as yours and it wouldn't hold in the "nubs" without popping out.
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2019, 08:41:19 PM »

In reply to both posts -

Fred
Try fitting the deck again then place the hull with the deck still fitted and sink into hot water, with any luck it may pull the hull into line with deck.I did wonder about doing this but was afraid that if the hot water marked, distorted or did something to the hull, any chance of me exchanging it would be gone. I may speak to the supplier tomorrow and see what they think.


RST
I wouldn't knock the kit too much just yet.  Quite normal for parts to distort slightly*, what answer do you need from the kit supplier?I'm hoping they will offer to replace the hull.
 Not even sure if it's made for R/C so you always have to think laterally when doing so. My choice of this kit came from a build series on this forum by 'Stan', he did a lovely PT-596 in 2016. I spoke to him last weekend and he said the deck and hull fitted perfectly. I also watched a Youtube vid of a guy that built PT-109 kit (I think both kits use the same hull and deck mouldings). He also claimed that the two items fitted perfectly.

From previous experience I wouldn't have the whole deck come off.  On my slightly smaller one I discarded the kit deck and cut one from 1mm polystyrene sheet -saved a small amount of weight and meant I could cut proper deck openings much easier than cutting the supplied deck.Unfortunately my scratch build abilities do not give me that kind of option, this is my 1st attempt at scale modelling of anykind.


If you want to continue with having the whole deck release, you might want to think ahead a bit about some extra stiffening (particularly if you hit something), and how you intend to keep water out of the join.  Also, if you're using screws in my experience screws into plastic (polystyrene) always start stripping after they've been in and out a few times.  Might want to think of a way to use captive nuts and small machine screws.
Extra stiffing was planned (advice of this mentioned in Stan's build) and water sealing (that to be worked out yet). Your suggestion for captive nuts etc is noted. I could place these away from the deck fittings that cover the existing self tappers.
*Initially, the fit of the kit deck on the hull was pretty much the same on my Merit kit as yours and it wouldn't hold in the "nubs" without popping out.

The attached image gives a better idea of the extent of the problem. My first idea was to place a couple of 'stretchers' between the screw bosses, these to stretch the hole pitches to match the deck. As you can see this waist's the hull sides between the screws - no good!
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RST

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #52 on: May 07, 2019, 09:15:55 PM »

CJK -these problems with the deck are not insurmountable.  Good luck with a replacement, just don't do anything so the full kit can't be returned!

For the route I recommended it's totally, easy-peasy.  I hate cutting plastic kit injection mouldings, it's quite hard and thick, knives skid once and you're left with a horrid scratch to fill.  You can get long sheets of thin polystyrene for a few (the spare material comes in handy later).  Trace the kit deck onto the sheet with a propelling pencil.  I cut out the new deck with kitchen scissors.  Cutting new openings and gluing in some waterproofing is then a doddle on a decent cutting mat with a stanley knife, buy some 2mm square evergreen profile pack and glue that a few mm inside the new deck so the kit hull has something to conform to and it might pull most if not all the deformation out.  Good strengthening for MEK or Dichloromethane solvent weld to adhere to also (don't use airfix type cement please!).

If you're a total starter what are you intending for running gear?  I recommend you use a single slimline 4mm Caldercraft type shaft.  Not sure on the size of your hull but I'd try and cut down and file an off the shelf brass rudder rather than make your own.

If you can save a few grams here and there it all counts on a small, fast model.  And good access to the inside is key.  You might also consider rationalising the amount of detail as it's everything to be damaged accidentally.

My 1:48 with the Ripmax 400 motor has 50% of the hull out of the water on full chat.  About as much as the hull would take I think and much quicker than I expected -you wouldn't want any quicker on that model.  Any more power, and some full speed turns generated aeration at the prop.  I got 20mins out of my mini 1,600mAh Ni-Mh 7.2v stick but that was not 100% throttle all of the time.

Hopefully you get somewhere with this.  Distortion is common!  I always ask to open the boxes I look at to check before I buy, otherwise it's judgment if it can be fixed.  I don't think you've taken the easist route as a starter though.  BUT my first R/C model when I was in my early teens was the small Billings Waveney lifeboat -model shop owner laughed at me in front of my Father for thinking it could be R/C'd -and looking back it wasn't for a beginner (very thin plastic and not easy to waterproof the parts I made removable), but I did it and it sailed fine for years, and that was way before mini/micro R/C gear or Ni-Cd batteries with decent capacity was affordable to proletarians!

Hope these ideas help,

Rich
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Stan

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2019, 09:56:03 PM »

See link to my build https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,51992.0.html  Please note never had any problems with deck not fitting on this build. Placing the hull in warm water may solve the problem. But if it goes wrong then  the customer may have no come back on the supplier.

Stan.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2019, 09:46:26 AM »

Quote
From previous experience I wouldn't have the whole deck come off.  On my slightly smaller one I discarded the kit deck and cut one from 1mm polystyrene sheet -saved a small amount of weight and meant I could cut proper deck openings much easier than cutting the supplied deck.  Unfortunately my scratch build abilities do not give me that kind of option, this is my 1st attempt at scale modelling of any kind.
You might surprise yourself.  Tracing round the hull on to a sheet of styrene is not rocket science, as a bonus you get a slightly wider hull.  A skill gained.  After one experience with a fully removeable deck lacking sealed edges, I would never go down that route again unless there was absolutely no alternative.  If the kit as supplied is capable of being completed as intended by the manufacturer to the intended standard, then a hull that is going to be under a bit of tension when displayed is not something that the manufacturer would be troubled by.
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2019, 12:01:09 PM »

Thanks for the replies. I don't want to seem ungrateful or uncompromising, after all I'm the novice here and will rely on advice for some time, but the problem is the hull - not the deck. Making a new deck to have better access so that it can be permanently fixed may be simple but making the on deck superstructure to suit the wider opening isn't - well for me anyway. The superstructure isn't that wide hence the width of the opening in the deck (see below). Having a removable deck gives the maximum access and is the best way to go in my opinion. The only problem is getting there with a hull that is so badly mishapped. As for sealing, there are silicon based jointing compounds that are easily removed after disassembling. The deck would only come off for repair/maintenance. Regular stuff like battery removal/charging and lubrication would be done via removable superstructure.

Whilst I have to agree this is a static kit, I would argue that a moulding that is 16mm undersized to its corresponding mating part is not acceptable. The kit is advertised as suitable for 14 plus years , would a 14 year old be expected to be able to correct that kind of discrepancy?
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grendel

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2019, 12:22:58 PM »

where the joining screws are that you wont be able to get to, can you fit small locating pins to hold the hull in the correct position, rather than screws?
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2019, 01:50:42 PM »

where the joining screws are that you wont be able to get to, can you fit small locating pins to hold the hull in the correct position, rather than screws?
Possibly. It would mean making all of the superstructure mouldings removable so that the sides of the hull could be pushed into alignment with my fingers - this is how I fixed the deck the first time round. Not ideal as it took quite a bit of force to achieve - but if the supplier refuses to supply a new hull it might be the only option.
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JimG

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2019, 02:05:07 PM »

You have started going the right way by fitting braces across the hull to widen it. The problem is that this will distort the hull as the braces are acting only at their ends.
First fit a wood strip round the inside of the hull at deck level. Now when you fit the braces the wood strips will form a curve keeping the hull shape. The wood strips can also be used to take screws to hold down tthe deck instead of using those moulded to the hull. You can then fit screws where they can be easily reached. Also a this gives a larger surface for the deck to seal down to if you something like vaseline to act as a waterproofer. An alternative is silicone bath sealant which can be easily cut if the deck needs to be removed.
I have added some photos to show the principle of this, although the hull shape is different from yours it will still work in your case.
Jim
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2019, 08:32:57 AM »

Thank's Jim, more knowledge for me to log in my memory.

As it stands I have spoken to the supplier of the kit (Model Hobbies - Stoke-on-Trent), they were very helpful and said they would look into the problem, so will have to see how it turns out. At the end of the day I would be prepared to pay for a new hull if it were possible.

Bloody annoying as I cant get on with anything.
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RST

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2019, 07:01:49 PM »

I doubt you'll get a new hull but maybe. If you want to wait then don't open anything in case they want the lot back. My suggestion for the deck cures multiple issues and I wouldn't have suggested that way if it was hassle.  Dead easy if you look at the pics but I suppose it leaves lines on the deck. Means you don't have to Faff with making the relatively small deck housings waterproof though. Good luck. Might be better to start a specific thread if you want to document the build.


Rich
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2019, 09:18:57 PM »

Got a reply from supplier of kit, Model Hobbies Ltd - Stoke-on-Trent, they have arranged a replacement hull foc - should get it in the next few days.

I have to say they have been most helpful and understanding about this problem and couldn't have done any better. Even the initial service was top notch - good comms from order placing to delivery and then sorting with the importer - The Hobby Company.

Highly recommended.
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Onetenor

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2019, 02:11:21 PM »

Always Worth an ask initially at least. Often all it takes. Well done tell us the sequel. O0 :}
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2019, 10:42:07 PM »

Tried the deck on the replacement hull today - fitted perfectly.  :} This is going to make the rest so much easier. Just got to find the time now, good weathers here and I'm being called to help in the garden.  {:-{
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RST

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2019, 09:37:01 AM »

Thats a great outcome.  Do you have to return the old one?  If not, bonus, and a great start for your next project -very easy to customise into something else!

Rich
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2019, 08:49:06 PM »

That's a great outcome.  Do you have to return the old one?  If not, bonus, and a great start for your next project -very easy to customise into something else!

Rich
Well they haven't asked for it to be sent back. Not sure I would use it anyway - 1:35 is a bit small for my failing body/eyes  <:( . I think the next one will likely be 1:24 - everything just that little bit bigger.
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2019, 02:36:22 PM »

Progressing, but slowly  :embarrassed:
Fitted the rudder tubes today and now have turned to rudders themselves. I wanted to make my own and am using 3mm rod and 0.80mm sheet. Have taken the shape of the standard kit part and increased by approx 50%, can someone please advise if this increase will be sufficient before I make all three?
Thanks
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2019, 09:02:11 PM »

Having now looked at Stan's Elco conversion I can see that first attempt was hopeless  {-) I don't know how many might have viewed the post but I bet those that did had a good laugh.
Anyway version 2 below - I think it looks a lot more promising.
I will be soldering a brass washer between blade and shaft once the final shape is settled.
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Stan

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2019, 10:17:58 PM »

HI It looks fine to me. Do not apologise for your first attempt we have all been in that position at some time.

Stan. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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CJK

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Re: Newbie needing help on everything
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2019, 06:37:45 AM »

Having fine examples to get ideas from helps Stan.  :}


Thats a great outcome.  Do you have to return the old one?  If not, bonus, and a great start for your next project -very easy to customise into something else!

Rich
The old one has really came in handy actually Rich, I was dreading having to cut the slots in the hull for the prop tubes as I imagined making a complete cock up. In the end it went OK but being able to practice made a big difference.  :-))
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