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Author Topic: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision  (Read 1314 times)

imsinking

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 07:55:45 PM »

What sane person would want to do this anyway ?
Bill
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Colin Bishop

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 09:36:30 PM »

There are plenty of insane people who would!


But what worries me is the blithe assumption that there will be a human constantly ready to take control and correct any errors.


Either the car is self driving or it isn't. If the automatic system has a wobbly in a potential collision scenario then the chances of the human being able to evaluate the hazard and take instant action to avoid it is practically non existent. And that assumes that the human is actually looking at the road and not their phone or reading the paper.


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imsinking

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 12:37:44 AM »

Unfortunately the powers that be seem to want us all to be 'managers' rather than drivers / pilots or what ever , the more automation there is the more chance of something serious going wrong , the Air France flight 442 for instance, or that idiot in a Winnebago that set 'cruise control' and went back to make a coffee the list goes on and on . . . Surely we must think for ourselves . . .
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TailUK

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 10:11:29 AM »

Self driving cars shot right into the top three "World's Worst Ideas" 
The capacity for chaos by hacking the onboard systems of modern vehicle is terrifying, all vehicles (air/land or sea) should only be accessible by direct physical connection.  Remote access is just to risky.  Imagine terrorists gaining access to the steering of a 70,000 ton LPG carrier. 
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malcolmfrary

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 10:49:13 AM »

Self driving cars shot right into the top three "World's Worst Ideas" 
The capacity for chaos by hacking the onboard systems of modern vehicle is terrifying, all vehicles (air/land or sea) should only be accessible by direct physical connection.  Remote access is just to risky.  Imagine terrorists gaining access to the steering of a 70,000 ton LPG carrier.
To look at the pitfalls of automated transport, just think back to old episodes of Thunderbirds.  The "70000 ton LPG carrier" reminded me, one episode had a rather larger vessel carrying something 'orrible trying to demolish Sicily, or something like that.
A human with a totally false sense of security will never be able to respond in time to an unexpected emergency, and all emergencies, by definition, are unexpected.
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TailUK

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 12:00:39 PM »

Thunderbirds painted a dire picture of the future.   Automated Monorails that couldn't be turned off in a emergency.  Automated Nuclear power plants with no safety features.  Skyscrapers made of special incendiary building materials.  Machines to build roads powered by Atomic reactors.  What could possibly go wrong?
The idea of half a ton of road vehicle under autonomous or sporadic human control mixed with pedestrians is not a happy prospect.
Jurassic Park comes to mind "Just because they could, doesn't mean that they should!"
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plastic

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 12:45:05 PM »

I get the feeling that all these companies have scammed the governments with the promise of being able to control the population and tax per mile of driving with all these fake AI projects.

I'm a techy-nerd and I suspect we're really 20 to 30 years away from self-drive cars because of the complexity of the environment and the ability of the software writers.

All cars now have to be wireless enabled so governments can track / charge your movements at all times.  It's being sold to people as a convenient add-on but the true purpose is being concealed - just like smart meters.

"I'm sorry Dave, I can't take you to the polling station because you voted the wrong way last time."
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warspite

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 01:53:41 PM »

In the pilot for thunderbirds - how long was the runway, seemed similar to the journey between birmingham and london.


and why were they trying to land on a set of formula one cars with a huge spoilers on top  %) [size=78%] [/size]
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DaveM

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 01:56:48 PM »

All cars now have to be wireless enabled so governments can track / charge your movements at all times. 
Really? I hadn't heard of this before now. Which Act in UK law covers this, or is it yet another supposedly EU-inspired piece of legislation? Do tell...
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plastic

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chas

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 02:24:30 PM »

erm, maybe I'm not understanding that piece very well, but it seems to be about the standards of wi fi conectability fitted to vehicles. I can't see anything about compulsory connectivity to any official body, or about the fitting of wi fi being a compulsory installation. I didn't see anything about safety standards either.
   Help me out please, reading this guff isn't my normal sort of thing.

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plastic

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2019, 02:34:09 PM »

I can't find the original article but here's some more...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/motorinsurance/10837263/Drivers-without-insurance-black-box-could-be-forced-off-the-road-within-10-years.html


It's all about tracking and remote fining if you tread on the cracks of the pavement - to 'influence' your behaviours.

All for your safety......
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DaveM

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2019, 02:44:17 PM »

Chas
I'm really glad you posted that when you did, because I was about to post a reply which was almost identical to yours but I wasn't sure if I'd read the article correctly. I can't see anything about compulsory connectivity for vehicles anywhere in it, either.
The Telegraph piece (so it must be true.....) concerns insurance for drivers who may chose in ten years' time to opt out of having 'telematics' devices fitted into their cars, saying that their premiums may increase or even that they may be unable to obtain insurance. That's a long way from a compulsory installation now to comply with EU law.
"Fake news"?
DaveM
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KitS

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2019, 04:05:20 PM »


It's an EU bit of law - naturally, it's all for your safety.   :-))
https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/Data-Protection-Privacy-and-Security/europe/connected-cars-legislation-draws-eu-lawmakers-late-objections-ahead-of-april-vote


I such legislation ever comes into force, which I doubt, I can see an increased market in classic and older cars.

I'm glad mine are both from the 2004-2007 period.  :-)
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Kit

Baldrick

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2019, 04:14:35 PM »






Reading the BMW Forum webpage regarding the emergency call facility which is fitted to current beemers I noted the following conversation.  :-     



PinkFatBunny said:
  Anyone ever used the SOS button that is in the roof console? Curious to know what happens, do they know your location when you call them? can they call the police for you? etc

Answer:
Yes, it sends the 5th Panzer division into Poland
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dougal99

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2019, 05:20:36 PM »


There was certainly a recent proposal from the EU that from 2021/2 all new cars be fitted with speed limit limiters. For these to work the car would have to be GPS enabled. Now whether the mysterious 'they' would want to know where you are is another question.


Driving a classic car with old number plates has advantages such as the number plate recognition system can't read them.
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KitS

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2019, 06:13:58 PM »


There was certainly a recent proposal from the EU that from 2021/2 all new cars be fitted with speed limit limiters. For these to work the car would have to be GPS enabled. Now whether the mysterious 'they' would want to know where you are is another question.


That was announced only last week, and if it's going to rely on GPS information it's never going to work. My TomTom GPS often has the wrong speed limit posted, sometimes higher, sometimes lower.

And you can bet your life that Police cars would NOT have such a system energised.  :police:

1984 again?
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Kit

Colin Bishop

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2019, 08:30:37 PM »

A lot of people assume that the intention is to make self driving cars 100% accident free which is indeed a tall order. However I have read that the real intention is to bring down the accident rate significantly below human related accidents which is a much easier target but will still justify the switch.


There are of course insurance liability issues......


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KitS

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2019, 09:02:25 PM »

How about the NON-human related accident rate?

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Kit

Colin Bishop

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2019, 09:15:06 PM »

You mean ALIENS?  :o
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KitS

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2019, 10:11:51 PM »

No, those generated by hardware and software failures... oh, sorry, software 'features', that wouldn't have happened if there was a human in the control loop.

Both the manufacturers of these systems and the government agencies seem to be adopting a 'head in the sand' position vis a vis these issues, and pretending that they just won't happen.
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Kit

Colin Bishop

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2019, 11:00:25 PM »

My point was that there will still inevitably be some software/hardware failures but that the result of these will still be far fewer accidents than if humans remain in control so the overall outcome will be greater safety.


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KitS

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2019, 12:02:46 AM »

Only time will tell...........
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Kit

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Re: How to trick a Tesla into a head-on collision
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2019, 01:21:29 AM »

I have said for a couple of years now, that with the advent of black boxes, it will not be long before all cars will need to be fitted with them. This is under the impression that ALL motorists drive like "xxxxx". All motorist speed, that is a known fact, but speed does not  cause accidents, people do. speed can BE A FACTOR, but in the end it is the Driver that loses control. When we had all these cameras put in place to stop accidents, the simple premise was speed kills. yes it does. BUT and here is the main point, most cameras were put on roads where there were speeding cars, with junctions near. Look at the accident rate at these black spots, and you will find that most of te accidents were not caused by speeding, but by idiots not paying attention to the road, and pulling out into a main road with other cars on. A quick look on DASHCAM UK on you tube bears this out. A speed camera CANNOT catch a motorist speeding if he is not or an accident where  the idiot pulls out. Insurance companies give a discount in some cases if certain APPROVED dash cams are fitted, double edge sword, if its not working for any reason and you have an accident, you may not be covered!
Back to the original point, with black boxes fitted to cars, these read the area you are in and check the speed restrictions in that area. With inbuilt car sat navs, you have the same thing (mine beeps when im over the speed limit by 5mph). It is not hard for manufacturers to linkl either of these 2 items to the EMU in a car and NOT LET YOU GO ABOVE THE SPEED LIMIT!
Also on  side note, I had my complusory water metter fitted 2 years ago. It will be cheaper they said! for 2 years I paid monthly on the old system. Always 10-20 under under on the old system in my favour, when they send my comparison through........had my first compulsory bill through, and guess what......Im paying 25 a month MORE than under the old system, when I complained about it, they said  had used more water. When I got my old bills out, I was using less water than 2 years ago with 4 adults in the house!!!
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