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Author Topic: Revell Gato Rudder Control  (Read 3288 times)

Plastic - RIP

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Revell Gato Rudder Control
« on: April 21, 2019, 01:15:29 pm »

I'm building a Revell 1/72 Gato as a surface-runner and I'm looking at the space available within the stern for the rudder control horn - it's really tight.

Is there a neat (and cheap) solution or has anyone got one of these working with tank-steering only?  Does it handle ok? 
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 09:05:07 am »

Definition time - is the horn referred to the actual tiller arm on the rudder or the arm on the servo?
While having the steering servo near the rudder is handy, with enough length of control wire, it can be anywhere.
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Plastic - RIP

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 09:14:35 am »

The tiller then - it's really tight in the back of the sub with only about 10mm to the sides and no access when it's glued together - there's also the rear torpedo tubes/bulkhead immediately behind the rudder post - the whole thing is really tight.

I'm making the back end of the sub free-flooding so the servo will be inside the main hull about 8" from the rudder.

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malcolmfrary

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2019, 09:58:33 am »

Lateral thinking - does the tiller arm need to be internal inside a free flooding compartment?  Could it be external, mounted to the rudder blade?
A good sub build article on https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/, scroll down to the U789 blog.  A good quote from there is "Such things are not deviations, they are improvements".  Paint it to match the surroundings, don't tell. :-))
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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2019, 04:37:02 pm »

That's probably the only thing I can do - hooking to the rudder blade will be awkward due to the proximity of the propellers - so I might have a longer rudder post popping out of the top of the hull so the tiller is on top of the hull rather than hidden inside.
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big_bri

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2019, 04:57:39 pm »

Absolutely tons of info online about converting the Gato :-))
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Brian

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2019, 05:07:59 pm »

yes - but almost all for converting into a real submarine costing hundreds - mine's a surface runner built for no money (I don't see the point of a sub unless you have glass-clear water available - I've only got mud-holes).
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Subculture

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2019, 08:47:39 pm »

Regardless of whether it's a diver or surface runner, the rudder linkage is going to be the same. Plenty have converted this boat, and it doesn't appear to present any special problems. A simple google brings up plenty of ideas.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=revell+gato+rc+conversion&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SjpvH4u7w-xscM%253A%252C5C-viHq0rdCdwM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTZ5177Ty8qSbWY8tNmKoMgO1-WUg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQ4_Gxu-ThAhXEa1AKHeMRBjkQ9QEwAnoECAcQCA#imgrc=_&vet=1
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big_bri

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2019, 09:06:25 pm »

Even a quick search shows the technique most people use for either diving or surface running, the rudder  linkages are the same in most cases. The easiest would be a cut down rudder arm. Just make sure it’s very well secured before sealing it up :-))
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Brian

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2019, 09:07:47 pm »

this is the only one I can find showing the actual rudder guts - but it looks like they've used the soft plastic original rudder that I think will break too easily.

I suppose I need to get busy duplicating the plastic rudder part in copper & brass to have some strength.
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big_bri

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2019, 09:28:51 pm »

Build log here
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3714.0.ht  there’s actually a few builds on mayhem.
Just about everyone uses the original rudder, I don’t really see the need to swap it out mate.
Up to you in the end though.
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Brian

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2019, 09:31:14 pm »

The plastic of my kit seems quite soft so I don't think a tiller will stay put without snapping off - with no way of fixing it without ripping things to bits.

I think the metal route would make me more comfortable.
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warspite

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 10:19:41 am »

it cannot be any softer than the other subs, and in reality it not pushing much water to create any strain, i would copy what is in the picture above.
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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2019, 10:22:43 am »

It's not the water I'm concerned about - it's the out of water handling and transport and bumping around in the car that concerns me - it's a big rudder at the end of a heavy, pointy boat so it's extremely vulnerable to being bashed and snapped off - and with no internal access to that part of the sub it will be a total pain to fix it.
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Subculture

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2019, 03:51:10 pm »

You make a case for the model, that keeps it well protected when transported. Even with a metal rudder, there's plenty of other fine details to break off of a model like that.
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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2019, 06:08:11 pm »

just a thought, with this type of problem, how about a pulley type wheel attached to the rudder with a string (modern materials are immensely strong and durable) held in tension by a small bottle screw in place of rods between servo and rudder, the advantage would be that the disc on the rudder pin would be much stronger than a crossbar as the load would be distributed all round the pin.
I once had a Saab 900 that used this system for its windscreen wiper, very effective and silent, no "flip-flop" sound. Once you see it you think, "why doesn't everyone use this system?"
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Subculture

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2019, 07:34:53 pm »

Nope - I've looked very hard and yet no-one can answer about ditching the rudder mechanism and using tank steering.

All of the solutions I'm finding are either using a half-assed bodge using the flimsy plastic rudder that cannot be accessed when it breaks or building a complete replacement.

I'd like to fix the rudder in place & use the motors to turn the boat - it looks like I'll be the first.
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Subculture

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2019, 07:49:45 pm »

You were originally asking about rudder actuation. Replacing the rudder with something stronger should you fell it requires it should not present any special problems. Don't know about tank steering, but may not yield the results you hope for with the narrow spacing of the props.
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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2019, 11:13:28 pm »

Folks should we not step back and breathe a bit here.  I'm no sub expert but this apparently isn't going to submerge either.  It looks like the original question is valid, but there's plenty of info out there, and modifying plastic cits is no secret in the magazines and the web.  But looking for an exact answer and potentially "complaining" nobody's got an exact answer isn't a problem, neither is looking at the afforementioned picture and figuring out the original plastic shafts couldn't be replaced with a bit of brass tube and rod, some epoxy and filler etc.  Few pounds worth if not salvegble from something else.  Thats what modelling is about, there's probably dozens of folk just get on with it so there's no need to publish an exact step by step.


...sorry, that's not meant to be a dig at anyone, bit it doesn't look an insurmountable problem, unless you specifically want to wait for a specific prescribed step by step.  This is why marine modellers are so good in my oppinion compared to railway modellers -we learn how to make things work without spending hundreds.

...As for tank steering why not give it a try in the bathtub?  It works for lots of models and toys with props right next to eh other.  If I want to try something like that or a pump for a bowthruster rather than buying an expensive item I fill the bath and have a try with something jerry-rigged first.  It costs time rather than money, and you learn from it.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2019, 09:30:18 am »

Tank steering works best with either shorter models or models that have a wider spacing between the props.  Arranging for this (as in the article I referenced in repy #3 which is probably still in need of reading) will probably be much more work than rearranging the rudder layout.
My Lindberg Mineswreeper has a better beam to length ratio, and when tank steered, tended to behave like a drunken sow.  It would, if commanded to, rotate on the spot.  When trying to run straight, it would invariably start to turn.  Correcting the turn without over correcting was always a challenge.  A working rudder made life much easier.

I wouldn't worry about the strength of the plastic as the soft-ish kit plastic is more likely to absorb sudden shocks rather than break - wear is the real enemy.  Shop-bought tiller arms tend to be made of much tougher plastic than that which kits are moulded from.  External brass arms are accessible and strong enough to do the job.
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Re: Revell Gato Rudder Control
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 09:46:40 am »

The rudder is very large and pivots on a 5mm plastic rod and I don't trust the rudder to snap right at the 90 deg angle - it looks too flimsy.


I've ended up buying thin Brass sheet & rod and I'll manufacture an exact replacement rudder part from Brass - I know that won't break off.  I can fit a chunky tiller to it so it's properly solid as there will be no access to fix it in future.   I'll leave the rear bulkhead out as it's too close to the rudder to allow free movement.
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