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Author Topic: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed  (Read 1134 times)

Steve Mahoney

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Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« on: April 24, 2019, 10:20:17 PM »

I'm looking for any plans, drawing or photos of the Australian tug York Syme. I've tried the Google search but not much there.
Built in 1961 by Adelaide Ship Construction to a Burness, Collett design. Operated by Howard Smith Ltd, then Derwent Tug Co. now registered in the Cook Islands but working in northern NZ. Not sure who owns her now.
She had a sister ship, the You Yangs. Any information on either, or where to find that information would be appreciated.
Thanks
Steve
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BrianB6

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 03:56:14 AM »

There does not seem to be much information available.  You could try https://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=subject%3A%22You+Yangs+%28Tugboat%29%22&l-availability=y

You could also contact the shipyard to see if they have any plans.
ADELAIDE SHIP CONSTRUCTION INTERNATIONAL
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meechingman

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 08:49:34 AM »

Plans for Burness Corlett hydroconic tugs are almost impossible to find. Burness Corlett were very secretive about their designs. When I tried to find plans for 'Meeching' - P K Harris, Appledore, 1960 - I was told by Appledore Shipbuilders (who took over from Harris in the mid 1960s) that all plans had to be returned to Burness Corlett from the builders on completion. I'm fortunate to have a copy of the GA plans that were sneaked out to my Dad, who was her Master, in 1966. Even the GA plans had to be kept under lock and key here at Newhaven!


Good luck with the search, I'm always interested to find out about hydroconic tugs from Adelaide Shipbuilders, one of very few companies licensed to build Burness Corlett designs.
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Steve Mahoney

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 11:07:28 AM »

Yes, I've had similar problems finding reference for several NZ hydroconic hulls – WH Parr from Nelson and Rangi from Dunedin. Same story – all plans had to be returned and the only GAs were very rudimentary. I can probably bluff my way for the hull, it's the topside info that I really need.
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RST

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 12:02:26 PM »

"hydroconic" was patented I think. Might explain why plans had to be returned and there's not a huge amount of info out there?
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NickelBelter

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 02:45:02 PM »

If you get a GA with the chine line on it, most of the work is done for you.  You have the distance from the deck to the chine transitions at two points then, you just need to estimate the angles.  I was able to build a model of a hydroconic tug from a GA plan this way and looking at some drydock photos, it came pretty close!
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meechingman

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2019, 11:15:20 PM »

"hydroconic" was patented I think. Might explain why plans had to be returned and there's not a huge amount of info out there?
That's correct. Whilst chined hulls had been around for ages (TID tugs, for example), Burness Corlett's patented Hydroconic hulls were said to be more efficient. I did look up the patents some years ago, but I think a PhD in hydrodynamics would have been in order! :D

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RST

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 11:25:15 PM »

That's correct. Whilst chined hulls had been around for ages (TID tugs, for example), Burness Corlett's patented Hydroconic hulls were said to be more efficient. I did look up the patents some years ago, but I think a PhD in hydrodynamics would have been in order! :D
...They never mentioned "hyrdoconic" when I did my NA degree.  I actually only ever heard of the term 2 years or so ago, when I looked it up I couldn't quite understand what the patent was about apart from a multi-chine hull applicable for tug use.  I think these days it would never have passed ayway but I can't see what the difference between a "chine" hull and a "hydroconic" hull of almost the same outward design is unless it affects the hydrostatic profile when a tug is in indirect mode.  I think it's a long passed term, but most boats are chine formed these days so it's lost it's significance now.  Regardless, I agree there's not much info specifically relating to the hulls -but there's lots of photo's and if I remember correctly MB mag gave a free plan away a while back of a "hydroconic hull" -and to e honest it's just 2-3 chines, and the benefit of chines is it's a bit easier to interpret from photos to get close nough than it is with a round bilge hull.
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meechingman

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 08:13:23 AM »

Burness Corlett were producing hydroconic designs as far back as the 1954. In they UK, they worked primarily with just two shipyards - P K Harris in Appledore and Mitchisons of Gateshead - to produce tugs and trawlers using hydroconic hulls through the mid 1960s. They formed a limited company called Seawork Ltd for this work. There was one other UK yard that produced some smaller hydroconic vessels, near Southampton, IIRC, and then they licensed Adelaide Shipbuilders. The patents would have expired in the mid 1980s, so is that when the term hydroconic fell out of use, I wonder?


As for the differences between a regular chined hull and a hydroconic one, that's where I got lost! All to do with angles, curvature, positioning of props and rudders etc. It must have been sufficiently different for the patent to be granted of course.


The plans mentioned from MB magazine were for Dominant/Diligent. They stop at the waterline, with no underwater details given at all. My GA plans for Meeching only hint at the chine lines. Burness Corlett's secretive influence, most likely!

There is one unfortunate characteristic of the hydroconic design, in that the vessels can be lively, even in a slight sea. I was once talking to a North Sea trawler skipper who described his hydroconic hulled trawler as 'hydro-comic'! However, although they'd roll and pitch like crazy in foul weather, they had the happy knack of always rolling back upright, even after a 40+ degree roll. My Dad did a salvage job in Meeching, in a F11 storm and said that he always had confidence that the tug would be OK, a sentiment echoed by his successor as Master, who said that she would always bring them back home, whatever the sea threw at her.
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Steve Mahoney

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2019, 05:09:41 AM »

As I understand it – a hydroconic hull was made up from plates that only had one curve in them, not a series of complex curves in each sheet.

Sounds very basic and not a million miles away from a standard chine hull. It's a wonder that they were allowed to patent the idea at all.

I have GAs of several other hydroconic hulls and the differences compared to a standard chine hull at 1/50 are minimal. The Rangi from Dunedin is quite a pleasing hull, and I have the hull lines for the WH Parr from Nelson. BC&P must have been very paranoid as the drawings are not 100% accurate.  If anyone would like a copy of the GA and my hull lines, PM me.

Still looking for any photos, etc of the York Syme of You Tangs

Thanks
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meechingman

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 09:25:47 AM »

The full sized version of my plans for Meeching are the same colour! When I had them scanned, I spent hours in Photoshop tidying them up to make them more readable - they were 50 years old after all! Meeching's plans aren't 100% accurate either, but they're certainly close enough to build a good model and if anyone wants them in full size (plus hundreds of photos) to build her or her closest 'sisters', they're welcome but I ask for a small donation to the RNLI. My Dad was rescued twice by the lifeboats and I would not have been here without their bravery.


Hydroconic = the hull plates are part of the curved surface of a cone, with just one curve, as you rightly say. Burness Corlett paranoid? You're probably right there, they really wanted to keep the hydroconic 'secrets' secret! .


The devil was no doubt in the detail, when it came to the patents.
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Barry

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2019, 09:47:20 AM »

Marine Modeller International magazine sold a plan for a Girl class navy tug that has a hydroconic hull. A recent issue of Model Boats [April 2018] had as it's free plan the Prestwick which has a hydroconic hull. I seem to remember being told the skeg, for want of a better word, and the way that it lead to the prop and rudder was one of the features of the hull design. Supposedly giving better steering and thrust, could be wrong though.
Try also the below for photos.
https://www.shf.org.au/archives-research/photographic-collections/shf-general-collection/australian-ships/
https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/954249/title/you-yangs/cat/516
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41311545@N05/4660626320
https://www.shf.org.au/archives-research/photographic-collections/shf-general-collection/harbour-craft/


It could be worth contacting the Sydney Heritage Fleet to see what else they may have.
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Steve Mahoney

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 03:45:11 AM »

Thanks Barry, I've got most of those but I'll follow your suggestion and contact SHF and see what sort of resolution their images are.
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meechingman

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 10:01:34 AM »

I seem to remember being told the skeg, for want of a better word, and the way that it lead to the prop and rudder was one of the features of the hull design. Supposedly giving better steering and thrust, could be wrong though.


Yes, I think that's a big part of it, the claim was that it gave more bollard pull for a given amount of horsepower, compared to a normal hull.
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chum444

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2019, 05:58:48 PM »

Aha Steve! Now I have insider information on my side of the pond as to your next build. I won’t tell anyone.  ok2


Your craftsmanship is finest kind. I encourage you to post photos of your fleet in the RCG Scale Forum, and if you have not already done so, post your fleet here too.


Bill
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Steve Mahoney

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2019, 09:06:34 PM »

Thanks Bill. Looks like info on the York Syme is as rare as hens' teeth. For a tug that is still working it is virtually invisible. I might have to find another subject for the next project, and that won't be until December as I'm out of the country until then. I don't think I'll be able to finish the Tika either – the last 1% is often the hardest and I've run out of spare time.


Most of my models are on this forum as build logs starting with the ATBs back in 2009-ish. Also on modeltugforum (as Sea Monkey), and I have a blog at RCG.
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Barry

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Re: Australian Tug York Syme – Info needed
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2019, 09:29:07 AM »

Not the York Syme but a hydroconic tug hull all the same. They're for the Girl class tugs
Found them on the Royal Museums Greenwich website. https://prints.rmg.co.uk/
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