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Author Topic: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list  (Read 1050 times)

frog32

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Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« on: April 23, 2019, 08:08:02 PM »

Hi
I have managed to obtain for my next build a Cheddar Gemini engine that is in need of a good overhaul.
So I am asking whether any one would have any working instructions, schematics and parts list for this model of engine.
I am willing to pay for time and postage if someone could photocopy them for me.
Many thanks Roger.
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KNO3

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 10:20:29 AM »

Hi, I don't have the instructions you need, only for the Proteus, which has the same reversing gear but has a different engine configuration.
What is wrong with your Gemini? Show some pictures ans maybe we can figure it out.
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frog32

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2019, 11:55:13 AM »

Hi KNO3
Thanks for your reply.
The engine does run, but as you probably know the bottom end of the engine does get quite mucky and the previous owner washed the lower end of the engine in white spirit before passing it on to me.
It’s just that I would like the paperwork for future use if I have problems.
One thing I would like to know is the grade of oil that is used in the oil drip feeders.
The photo is as I have received the engine.


Regards Roger
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derekwarner

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 01:32:09 PM »

Roger.....I am sure that Calin will come back with his experienced thoughts, however could I offer


[I can understand a seller washing the bottom end of the engine for sale with White Spirit as some sort of atheistic appearance], but nothing is lost[


Rather than recommend a Grade of lubrication oil, you could purchase 2 x 150 ml plastic bottles of Sewing Machine Oil [marked with a reputable name]

This is marketed as filtered to a nominal 5 micron which is an Industry Standard for initial cleanliness

Get a plastic container to suit the footprint of the engine & pour sufficient oil to cover the lower end bearings  & journals
Leave soak for 24 hours
Gently rotate the output shaft by thumb & for finger....watch out for any discoloration of the oil from any journal
Repeat as necessary

The engine [if freely rotating] could now be considered OK for running slowly...using the second bottle of Sewing Machine oil for your lubrication medium

Model steam engines don't really get mucky...just a wipe down of the lower engine parts & oil tray should minimize oil or and condensate residue....

That looks a superb engine :-)) ...so lets see your build progress

Derek
 
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Derek Warner

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rhavrane

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 04:53:00 PM »

Bonjour Roger,
For my Cheddar Proteus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8KDyS69M3c and all my other machines I use grade 480 steam oil because others are too fluid and fly away in the first minutes of the navigation.
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Vintage

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 06:35:58 PM »


So I am asking whether any one would have any working instructions, schematics and parts list for this model of engine.

Many thanks Roger.
Hi Roger,

I have the original Gemini steam plant operating, running and safety instructions together with an exploded diagram of the engine and parts list.

All as supplied when I collected my Topaz kit from MHB many years ago.

If you'd like to PM me your email address? I'd be more than happy to scan them in and email copies to you..

Hope this helps.

Mark


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ooyah/2

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 06:58:46 PM »

Hi KNO3
Thanks for your reply.
The engine does run, but as you probably know the bottom end of the engine does get quite mucky and the previous owner washed the lower end of the engine in white spirit before passing it on to me.
It’s just that I would like the paperwork for future use if I have problems.
One thing I would like to know is the grade of oil that is used in the oil drip feeders.
The photo is as I have received the engine.


Regards Roger


Roger,
For the steam oil in the lubricator use steam oil 90 w grade ( it's sold in small quantities by various suppliers in the U.K.) and for the bearing cups use Auto oil form an oil can ( 30 - 40 is fine ), the main bearings are sealed  ball races and require no oil. I have used these oils for the past 30 years and have found them sufficient.
I would never dream of using Sewing machine oil as in my opinion it's just too thin and and just run thro' the bearings  the thin  3 in 1 oil has a degreaser in it and not advisable to use.
George.


George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2019, 01:03:50 AM »

There’s a bit of a story to 3 in 1 Oil. I worked on Mobil Lubchem, a small lube stock tanker which carried the stocks that various lube oils are mixed from. We carried up to 15 different grades. We would often pump various grades to one shore tank to start off the mix at source. The story goes that a long time ago the first mate on an Esso tanker got it wrong and made a “cocktail”. He was sacked because these stocks a very valuable. So they had a tank full of useless lube oil. Some bright spark thought it could be used as a cheap oil for general lubrication and get some of the money back rather than send it back to the refinery for reprocessing. Because the oil was an original mix of three stocks they called it 3 in 1. The rest is history.  It may or may not be true.
Jerry.

frog32

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 03:22:08 PM »

Hi All
Many thanks for your helpful suggestions.
Mark (Vintage) I have sent you a PM with my email address many thanks again.
Jerry isn’t there a similar story about the origin of WD40?


Regards Roger.
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rhavrane

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2019, 03:51:32 PM »

Bonjour Roger,
I am surprised to read that a 40 grade is convenient. To my pionion, it is too fluid and I would kindly suggest you to meet some steam practicing people to touch with your fingers the oils they use.
My tests : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyGEAozABZQ
Besides this, other members of this formu could also share their practices.
WD40 is NOT a 40 grade oil, but a penetrating oil
Last point, verify that you use an appropriate oil for steam, otherwise it could emulsify.
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
Ma chaîne YouTube:  http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane
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ooyah/2

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 04:09:58 PM »

Bonjour Roger,
I am surprised to read that a 40 grade is convenient. To my pionion, it is too fluid and I would kindly suggest you to meet some steam practicing people to touch with your fingers the oils they use.
My tests : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyGEAozABZQ
Besides this, other members of this formu could also share their practices.
WD40 is NOT a 40 grade oil, but a penetrating oil
Last point, verify that you use an appropriate oil for steam, otherwise it could emulsify.


Raphael,
Please read my post carefully, I did not recommend WD40 but recommended for steam, 90W oil and for bearings Auto engine oil 30-40 or as the oil in the pics which is 15W-40


90W is the usual oil used and can be bought in small quantities on e-bay at reasonable cost


George.
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frog32

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 05:08:20 PM »

Hi George
I understood what you meant.


Regards Roger.

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rhavrane

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2019, 05:10:25 PM »

Bonjour George,Roger mentioned WD40, not you, please read also the posts carefully  ok2 
Other atlternatve : http://www.atelier-vaporiste.com/WWW2/show_art.php?man=AV&cat=AVAV&lng=fr
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
Ma chaîne YouTube:  http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane
Mes albums : https://picasaweb.google.com/104408627118165995713/

frog32

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 05:28:54 PM »

Hi Raphael
I think may be translation has confused you with regard to the WD40.
It was nothing to do with advice concerning the lubricant for my Gemini, but it was my reply to the story about 3inOne oil and how it came to be.
Hope that clears things up!
Regards Roger.
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ooyah/2

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2019, 05:46:32 PM »

Bonjour George,Roger mentioned WD40, not you, please read also the posts carefully  ok2 
Other atlternatve : http://www.atelier-vaporiste.com/WWW2/show_art.php?man=AV&cat=AVAV&lng=fr


Raphael,


I can read posts correctly, Roger has clarified his remark on WD 40 in response to Jerry's comments, not that he should or has used it on his engine.


George.
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derekwarner

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2019, 10:45:13 PM »

Roger....when you get your parts listing, scan thru & see if mention is made to Sintered Bronze Bushes?.........[as marked up image]


I seem to remember in an article on some of the original Cheddar engines that mention was made of this feature. Sintered bushes are usually installed without any through oil hole and rely the microstructure of air spaces to allow the flow of light lubrication oil from the oil cup, through the bush to the shaft


The Author [of the British publication] made mention that this was the same sintered bushing material as used in the Japanese Saito steam engines since the early 60's


Derek



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Vintage

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 09:44:31 AM »

So I am asking whether any one would have any working instructions, schematics and parts list for this model of engine.

Many thanks Roger.

Roger,

I have just sent a 6 page pdf file, with all the instructions as requested, to the email address that you'd given me.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Mark
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southsteyne2

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 10:08:17 AM »

 Hi all so glad someone has an interest in this engine as I am attempting to build one on similar design but so far have found very little info on the size  and bore .but my main concern is the size of the reversing gears and how the eccentric straps are connected to the eccentrics ,so I would really appreciate any drawings sketches etc .
I did notice there are oiler pipes feeding the connecting rods ,are these utilized from lack of cross slides?
My method of cleaning engines is to soak in a tub of kerosene ,hose off  ,a little compressed air and oil everything sparingly using George ooyah /2 recipe mixed well and all should be good.
Cheers
John
 
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frog32

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 01:06:35 PM »

Hi Mark.
Many thanks have printed out the pages all OK.
Regards Roger.
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KNO3

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Re: Cheddar Gemini instructions and parts list
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2019, 02:50:12 PM »

Hi Roger, for the drip feed oilers of the Gemini, steam oil is probably too thick. Use a thin machine oil of good quality.
I generally use steam oil to lubricate all parts of an engine unless very delicate drip feed oilers are present, which require a thin oil.

Regarding dirt etc: if there is a lot of hardened oil and dirt on your engine it means it hasn't been cleaned for many years. Hardened oil could be present inside the cylinders too and make the engine turn with difficulty. I recently bought a Hemmens engine in this state and here's what I did: I have repeatedly dripped thin oil inside the intake pipe, then manually turned the flywheel until it came out of the exhaust and the engine turned freely. This will dissolve the old oil.

To clean the engine exterior of hardened oil, thin oil is very suitable. If very stubborn try alcohol. Be careful with other solvents as they can attack the paint.

Anyway, you should make a habit of wiping off excess oil from your engine after each run, that way it won't attract dust.
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