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Author Topic: HMS Rodney  (Read 4453 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2019, 03:52:57 PM »

Interesting that the weight of the mounting was about the same as the displacement of a contemporary destroyer!

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2019, 08:42:41 PM »

Big buggers those Battleship turrets!
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Rob47

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2019, 05:09:37 PM »


Although she did let rip Broadsides during the Bismarck engagement. O0


Bob


Very effective movement but the gun appears to be under the turret in the video.


You probably already know that Rodney & Nelson fired salvoes with two guns of one turret and one of another. Rarely broadsides. It is all documented somewhere!


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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2019, 05:32:49 PM »

Quote
Although she did let rip Broadsides during the Bismarck engagement.

Yes, they were getting a bit frustrated because despite all the hits the Bismarck wouldn't blow up. Rodney only had armour piercing shells aboard having unloaded her HE outfit prior to sailing to the USA for refit so basically she was just drilling holes in and through Bismarck above the waterline as the close range rules out plunging shots. Hits that penetrated the main belt were probably deflected upwards by the turtleback armoured deck behind it.

So although Bismarck was wrecked as a fighting ship her vitals were not significantly breached, hence the subsequent arguments as to whether scuttling charges or torpedoes (or a combination of both) actually sank her.

Colin
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Rob47

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2019, 10:08:56 AM »


Read a lot recently on the did we sink her or was she scuttled, it seems the consensus including Robert Ballard, all agree that she sank due to the scuttling charges BUT all agree that if left afloat she would have sunk anyway, estimates range from an hour after cease fire to 12 hours, but all say she would have sank, so its a bit 50/50 really.


Bob
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2019, 11:03:43 AM »

My biggest point against the scuttling theory is who gave the order? By this stage the bridge crew were all dead and most of the communications would have been destroyed- so who would have given the order to set the scuttling charges?
Anyway as previously mentioned there were enough holes in her to make her sink anyway it was just a matter of time.
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Nick B

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C-3PO

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2019, 04:28:44 PM »

HMS RODNEY

Having spent a fews hours today with the ever generous Mr Ron Dean from Deans Marine  https://www.deansmarine.co.uk/

I now have a loan set of HMS Rodney plans - yipee - this will allow Peter  my co-conspirator modeller to make progress with HMS Rodney - building on Ron's HMS Rodney project that we acquired a few months back from him.

With the gun smoke production, turret rotation, gun elevation, sound system all coming together this will hopefully be a great model....

What can I say - a big thank you to Ron for trusting us with his  plans - and a big thank you for both his time and generosity....

Peter & I are having so much fun with this project we are tempted to buy another Deans Marine 1/96th hull and perhaps make HMS Nelson as well, whilst also considering future Dean's Marine hulls, perhaps HMS Belfast or HMS Hood or, or , or - dangerous stuff going near Dean's Marine!!!

C-3PO
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dodes

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2019, 06:02:52 PM »

Colin I think you will find APC shells have explosive warheads, just a smaller amount to HE. HE would shatter outside of the armour belt, but would blow away lighter built accom blocks. Problem with German warships then as in the first world war was the multi box construction in the hull as their ships did not have to go on world voyages of long duration as ours so their crews mainly lived ashore in barracks. But I have a copy on my machine of the secret report sent to the USA about this engagement, 45 minutes from start to finish her when Rodney and co got her in range. I t is an interesting read tried once or twice to load it up but always stopped by being too big a file!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2019, 06:33:33 PM »

Dodes,

Yes, the APC shells did have bursting charges but they were very small in relation to the weight of the shell, often less thn 5%. They were also base fused and tended to pass through lighter structures either without exploding or exploding on the far side. The HE shells, as you say, were designed to explode on contact and do massive damage to superstructure etc. and also create destructive fires.

Iain Ballantyne's excellent book on the Bismarck's last battle

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009EE9GAI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

is packed with graphic detail on the engagement. The British tactics were to get Rodney, with the heavier broadside, in close as soon as possible and batter the Bismarck into submission which she did very well but the close range meant that sinking the ship by gunfire became difficult. In Bismarck, the armoured deck sloped down to the bottom of the side belt so AP shells penetrating the belt tended to be deflected upwards.

And of course the sheer size of Bismarck and the close internal subdivision you mention mad it difficult to sink the ship quickly.

I would be very interseted to see the file you have. Would it be possible to email it to me if I PM my address?

Colin

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dodes

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2019, 08:12:10 PM »

Hi Colin yes no problem, if you are interested there is a free site all about Plymouth and one of its pages has official description of the various naval munitions including APC shells, plus several other bits of MoD info.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2019, 02:02:55 PM »

This is a link to the file Dodes is referring to. It contains a number of obvious inaccuracies but is interesting as a historical document of the time.

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/s/sinking-of-the-bismarck/the-cruise-of-the-bismarck.html

Colin
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C-3PO

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2019, 08:03:38 AM »

Having obtained a loan set of plans Peter has been checking out the scale of some of the component parts we have purchased to make sure all is in order. A few hours of confusion as he could not reconclie what he had infront of him and we began to think Shapeways 3D printed parts were scaled incorrectly.

A quick call to Ron (Deans Marine) resolved some confusion. The Deans Marine Hull is 1/96th, the plans 1/92nd but the scale matched. Now we understand that the printed plans where scaled to 1/96th from the cloth originals but the text on printed copy was as the original cloth (1/92) - obvious once you know...



C-3PO
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dodes

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2019, 07:45:06 PM »

That modelling is superb, hope she is at Wicksteed next year.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2019, 08:17:11 PM »

I recognise the Walrus and the catapult on the turret as Iíve just bought one of each too! Lovely fittings for a fantastic model. :-))
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Nick B

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C-3PO

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Re: HMS RODNEY
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2019, 10:56:29 AM »

Definately not scratch built (!) - amazing 3d prints from Shapeways







C-3PO
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2019, 11:34:20 AM »

Yes, it's this sort of thing that blows traditional scratchbuilding out of the water as far as most people are concerned. Only the very top class modelmakers can come anywhere close.

Colin
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dodes

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2019, 08:04:27 PM »

Love it.
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C-3PO

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2019, 05:19:40 PM »

HMS RODNEY - moving 9 guns independantly -  just 3 control wires!!

I am exploring what gun movement looks effective - a way to go yet!!

https://youtu.be/jqUp7P3BbEM



https://youtu.be/jqUp7P3BbEM

C-3PO
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Capt Podge

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2019, 05:28:53 PM »

Most impressive C-3PO, you're definitely getting there  :-)


Regards,
Ray.
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C-3PO

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2019, 05:59:54 PM »

Hi Ray,

Thank you - it's certainly as fun project

I forgot to mention in my post that the guns are represented by black drinking straws in this video - on the model itself will be some expertly produced (thank you Peter Ward) custom brass barrels...and also some super smooth digital servos that are a game changer compared to the cheap and cheerful ones used on my test bed in this video

C-3PO


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C-3PO

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Re: HMS Rodney
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2019, 05:09:08 PM »

Awesome looking custom brass barrels as mentioned in previous post



C-3PO

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C-3PO

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Re: HMS RODNEY
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2019, 12:11:47 PM »

More Shapeways 3D printed parts





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C-3PO

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Re: HMS RODNEY
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2019, 09:58:47 PM »

HMS RODNEY - development continues

https://youtu.be/c2XKgsL8wYQ



https://youtu.be/c2XKgsL8wYQ

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