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Author Topic: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516  (Read 8106 times)

Subculture

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2019, 05:38:22 PM »

Shouldn't experience any issues with those materials. You need to be careful with modified acrylic on some clear plastics like polycarbonate and PMMA as it can craze them. Epoxy is pretty much inert on anything, but the bond is completely mechanical, so the plastic surfaces need to be well keyed before bonding.

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2019, 05:53:31 PM »


Agreed but some ABS / 'hard plastic' single part glues have high solvent content and if used too liberally or the ABS is very thin..... !   {:-{
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Subculture

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2019, 06:38:03 PM »

All the glues I listed are twin component adhesives, Martin. You can't fuse wood to ABS, it has to be bonded.

Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2019, 01:01:36 AM »

@Subculture a million thanks for the information and ideas, this is perfect. With your explanation and links along with Andy and Martin's info we have a great base to do some spending (a-hem, I mean research)!! Yeah, will look into these products so we can try to understand them more and how they go together. We were really happy to receive the voltage information, this is something we were wondering about a lot.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Phil22

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Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2019, 11:45:24 AM »

Spent a few hours each evening this week continuing to work on the wooden bits. Also we got our hands on some Japanese epoxy for the ABS to plywood.


 

Used a square sanding block as a guide while coming along with the sides of this section. This was helpful in giving 3 points of contact while glueing


Only the edge of the block was needed to retain square









So far the laser-cut pieces have been great, only requiring some light sanding here and there. The rear deck was the first time something didn't quite go together flush. Rather than using some filler, we opted to cut, realign then slot in a fillet.



transferred off the model with some tape.




Towing point assembly




511 Fittings Kit bundled with the Banckert
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2019, 03:09:38 AM »


Began work on the rear deck railings (thanks to tips on the forum about working off a separate board). The stanchions in our case are not moveable post bend due to the tolerances which are impressive =P. The final plunge as to where to make the bends was a good percentage of guesswork. Also rather than have two stanchions at the very back corners (as in the plans), we'd seen other builders bringing them forward a few mil which allows the bend to flow into them better.





One point that has required a bit of thought is the curved front of the main structure. After spending a good week trying to soften up the piece (clamping it to the model, clamping it to a paint tin, steaming it, bending it as much as we dared, offering it cash) the edges where it marries up to the sides of the cabin didn't look at all like they would hold.





The sweep of the deck was too much strain on the piece. Tip our hats to those builders who managed this as designed.





Tried cutting out the same shape from a thin plastic binder cover but we weren't happy with that. The flexibility was there but the meeting of the end joints was pants...


Solution: Shallow out the deck curve. Layered and shaped a chunk of MDF to bond the piece to properly.





The MDF needs a little more work to make everything flush. The section of the removed forward deck shows the original curve versus our modified one. XD
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derekwarner

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2019, 03:34:50 AM »

Excellent build  thread & images Phil22 :-)) 


Just a point of question, is that replacement shaped MDF former heavy? and will you paint the exposed surfaces?.......


Some MDF material + water moisture causes severe  <*< swelling of the MDF



Derek
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2019, 08:40:01 AM »

Thanks very much Derek. The MDF piece doesn't have much weight to it at all. It's comparable to a piece of balsa the same size. To keep the weight down though, it'll get hollowed out with the dremel a touch. The MDF has received coats of wood glue during shaping and when ready it'll get a few coats of primer before painting. This should seal it up enough  ;)
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2019, 12:59:51 PM »

Our tug is starting to look more like the box =) The wooden parts have been really enjoyable to put together. While the instructions could be a whole lot better, it is definitely rewarding to think carefully about each step and work out what needs doing.
 
This probably won’t be of use to most but on the offhand here are the local (Tokyo) materials we are using.
 
Tin = Undercoat
Bottle = Quick drying wood glue (Excellent stuff)
Box = 2 Part epoxy as recommended by Sugi-san (check out his Banckert on Youtube). Goes off in around 30 minutes but needs 24hrs to cure. Dries clear.

 
The epoxy did a great job of maintaining the bend in the stiff plywood. Fashioned a small ply form and left it clamped for 48 hrs.



Worked on the basic shell of the rear cabin. As early on we removed the bevel from the bridge floor, the fit is a little out, meaning the rear cabin sits a touch high. This will be an easy fix in simply putting the bridge on a new 3mm base.

 

 
 
All the wooden fittings that make up the funnel and main mast sections shaped, sanded and ready to assemble.

 
 
There is a vent at the base of the funnel which we couldn’t identify at all in the kit. It looks like a part is stuck on over the plywood. Looking online either people have gone with plain wood or got creative. We chose creative and built in louvered fins using the fitment beading.

 
 
 
 
Also, there are areas on 3 sides of the funnel in the plans that receive parts (vents). Same issue, couldn’t identify so repeated as above, this time with toothpicks.

 
 
Spruce Springstein

 
 
Overall Progress

 
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Mark T

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2019, 03:19:15 PM »

Your build is looking really nice and I like your solution with the louvered fins  :-))   I suggested to my wife that we build something together - She laughed and mentioned something about causing a divorce  {-)   Keep the updates coming as its a great build.
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2019, 05:33:00 AM »

Thanks very much Mark.

Really enjoying to read your Fairmount Alpine build diary atm. Stunning finished result!!
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Phil22

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Billings Banckert 516 - LED help request
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2019, 01:12:08 PM »

Being our first build, we made the decision early on not to put in freeing ports going on the assumption that if it is that choppy, we'd not sail that day. In the standard Banckert kit, the rear deck has no coaming. So we've opted to build up the rear deck cover a few mil and add in some coaming for a bit of a safety margin. The rear deck definitely does look better flush but we'll go with caution this time. Perhaps we'll achieve this (and freeing ports) with a future build after acquiring more experience.   

Reworked rear deck cover. This is the first piece to receive some wood filler - still needs sanding flat.



Lower funnel section with some mods




The contact point for the main mast is less than 8mm square. Envisioning the day when it gets knocked and breaks prompted the use of a dowl "bamboo toothpic" (very strong). These are also excellent for accurately applying glue.






More detailing work (Elf hands required).



Prepped 2 initial holes in the funnel for LED wiring



OK hands-up, we are approaching a part that we literally have no experience with. Basic electronics =P. We would really appreciate some help in creating something like either setup below. Thinking to base off a 9V battery, would this work?

2 navigation LEDs, 1 internal bridge LED, 2 LEDs on the V bracket (funnel section) *all LEDs 3mm

Idea A

A chain of 5 white LEDs connected to an on/off switch, a fuse and a battery. Coat 2 LEDs with marker pens (1 green, 1 red) for the navigation lights.

Idea B

1 red LED, 1 green LED and 3 white LEDs connected to an on/off switch, a fuse and a battery. This would be a parallel circuit (we think...). Google mentions different colours of LED require different voltages so with understand 3 different resistor types may be needed.

We've had a go (don't laugh) at producing some circuit diagrams to try and explain



Thank you in advance for any help / advice offered.
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Subculture

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2019, 02:34:14 PM »

Might want to feed the three white led's in parallel too, with dropping resistors for each- makes it easier to fault find if one goes duff.

Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2019, 12:59:43 AM »

Thanks a lot Subculture! That was another of the questions we had.
Regarding the gauge of wire. What would be the thinnest (recommended) option for this simple setup?
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Subculture

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2019, 08:54:06 PM »

Small  low power LED's only draw 10-20ma at most, so really the finest wire is suitable e.g. 0.1mm2  would be perfectly okay, and can be hidden by slotting masts etc.

Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2019, 02:02:20 PM »

Thanks again @Subculture appreciate your help. Planning to give things a go this weekend. Found a great electronics shop in Tokyo's Electric Town (Akihabara).
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2019, 04:14:49 AM »

Progress!!

Huge thank you to Malcolmfrary and Subculture, we now have working lights [thread: https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63538.msg672251#msg672251]. This is the first attempt so next is measuring up and refitting for the build.

 
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2019, 02:44:08 PM »

Found a fantastic electronics supplier in Tokyo's Electric Town (Akihabara) https://www.sengoku.co.jp/shop_01.html
4 floors of fascination! 1000's of mini drawers and shelves full of components. Customers can buy items individually or in bulk.

 

 




Work on the bridge has progressed a little this week. It looks like the plans have the bridge's ceiling extending out on three sides. We've seen other builders getting the sides flush which we think looks better, so went for this approach.

 


As we took the bevel off the bridge's deck early in the build, to get to the kit fitting correctly again we added a new base trim.

 


The bridge roof section has a high 'faff level'.

 

Decided to build it off the model having made an outline on a plastic sheet. Didn't fancy trying to glaze this part from the inside either.
Used a couple of other parts to raise the piece up around 6mm. Taping it all down then gave us the ability to slide in the side sections and get them glued. These thin window sections won't take much of a chamfer as there isn't much material around the sills.






Overall build

 

Some initial detail work (couldn't wait any longer  {-) )

 
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2019, 12:09:45 PM »





The upper window section has been the most challenging part of the build so far. The plans are far too general.








Not sure which species of wood is used for the heavily curved parts but the fact that grain runs vertically (at least in our kit), so far 2 of 5 parts (1mm thick) have snapped while coaxing them into the shape required. Last pic: part A snapped and was unsalvageable, part B snapped and was rescued, mostly thanks to the wood filler.

This has been the only real disappointment with the kit. The other plywood parts have largely been great to work with.
 







A little more detailing required on the filler areas.
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SailorGreg

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2019, 02:18:16 PM »

Coming along nicely.  And I guess we have all found parts in kits which were only suitable for the bin. If we are lucky they are straightforward to reproduce from our own materials. You seem to be coping well with the occasional rogue, and the whole boat is looking good. Well done.   :-)) :-))

Greg

Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2019, 10:59:23 AM »

Thanks a lot Greg for your comment. Overall we are thoroughly enjoying the build, these little hurdles all add to the interest at the end of the day.

 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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RST

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2019, 09:58:55 PM »

Dry wood will only bend so far.  Usual practice in modelling circles is to soak, or steam and set in place.  I don't think the destructions are necessarily at fault for not saying that because it's such a common thig to do when working with wooden parts in models.  But in your case I would probably have done the same thing -and just used polystyrene instead!  I guess that sounds a bit hard though!  It looks a brilliant biuld though.  A Bankert has been taunting me in my local shop for ages, not for best part of £300 though!
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2019, 01:03:36 AM »

Hi RST,

Yeah much still to learn. Thanks for the tips.
£300 for the kit only or for a full build price? FYI Kitstop (Address: 20 Oxton Rd, Birkenhead CH41 2QJ, UK) quoted me £180 for the kit.
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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2019, 01:58:37 PM »


Progress since the last comment has mostly involved filling and sanding. From last year I started collecting useful Banckert build images which have been invaluable so far. The range of detailing ideas from various modelers is great to see.

Strengtheners epoxied to the ABS deck







Made a start on the the wiring having decided where the 5 LEDs will go. 2 on the mast, 1 on the bridge, 2 port/starboard lights.




The back of the deck is a flat panel in the kit. We wanted to add more detail so vented it out and propped up with bits of brass wire.







Getting there slowly but having fun with the build!

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Phil22

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Re: Our First Build - Billings Banckert 516
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2019, 09:47:32 AM »


Work has continued on the handrails and this time we’ve had some good results with the slow drying epoxy over solder.

The front of the bridge in official pics has a rounded section front-center not shown in the instructions.

First off roughly cut the rails to size, measured out the distance between stanchions on a board (we tried 32mm to allow for the radius bend later).


 
Trimmed and filed off the excess material then moved the handrails back and forth the draw the epoxy into the stanchions. 

Propped the piece up with a square while drying. Used a crank handle to bend the piece around then prepped light pilot holes in the plywood.





Moving onto the side rails followed the same process this time over two days to give the epoxy time to go off before working on the opposite ends.











So far they’ve stood up well to the forces exerted while bending into shape. This approach has been much easier / neater than first making holes in the plywood THEN getting each section to fit.

Found that chopping a little off the larger stanchions stops them from bending when being tickled with the hammer. (Same length as the shorter ones works best)





Now for the challenging bit

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