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Author Topic: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )  (Read 12359 times)

tigertiger

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2019, 02:00:46 am »

20 years ago there was a lot of resistance to the idea of autonomous vehicles, mainly because of relinquishing sovereignty of the controls; more than the technical limits. That would also have been my main objection.
Today, there are far more vehicles on the road, more distractions in and around the vehicle, more driving stress, and more opportunities for your license to attract points, not to mention I am getting older and growing to dislike driving.
I am looking forward to a future, where I will just be able to jump into a vehicle, tell it where I want to go, and 'Let the train take the strain', to borrow a phrase from the old British Rail adverts.
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Howard

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2019, 09:33:33 pm »

Why do so many young drivers think the speed limit is a target. so will over take you no matter what the weather snow, rain, fog, ice. if your not driving to the limit.
                  Regards Howard.
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2019, 09:55:22 pm »

Speed limit? What's that?

Whatever they are no-one, apart from me, seems to take the slightest notice of them in these parts. Some just ignore them completely and drive at a constant speed everywhere, usually around 40-45 mph (even in 20 mph zones.,...) or else they seem to be testing the maximum performance of the vehicle, both engine, transmission and suspension the entire time.  :((
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2019, 09:56:17 pm »

Why do so many young drivers think the speed limit is a target. so will over take you no matter what the weather snow, rain, fog, ice. if your not driving to the limit.
                  Regards Howard.

  Could be linked to the question :-  Why do so many young drivers write off their cars in the first year of ownership.

Quote;   Research from road safety charity Brake found that despite 17 to 19-year-olds only making up 1.5% of driving licence holders, they are involved in 9% of all fatal and serious crashes in the UK.
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RST

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2019, 11:11:28 pm »


Quote
Why do so many young drivers think the speed limit is a target.
...because you're young, I can't tell you how many chances I took in my parents car (wreckness driving, not just silly).  Then when I moved away and got my forst car I was a little more sensible, then when I could afford something proper I went car nuts.  I got away with things for a long time!  I learned from mistakes, most don't.

But I can tell you when I learned to drive my instructor insisted if it's 30 and safe to do so then you do it, if it's 60 and safe then you do it etc.  On a dual carriageway if I didn't manage joining speed at the top of the slip, or sat much less than speed after limit he flipping well reminded me!
Now allot older I'm torn.  Where I live up in highlands I can be stuck behind cars doing as low as 35 in a 60, huge tailback but not safe to overtake.  When a crawler lane comes up said driver accelerates to 65 or 70 (5-10 over the limit) so not many can get past but goes back to sub 45 at the end, then when a dual carriageway section comes up, they're up to 75-80, and same at the end.  I hate to say it but you see it ALL the time, and when you do get past said person they are almost always male and between 45-60 in appearance.
Texting and using phone while driving.  Well I don't believe in hands free.  Someone I worked with would have no problem doing 80 in a 50, eating a sandwich and taking texts or using their phone.  I couldn't have objected on fear of losing my job, but I did used to breathe in and tighten my seatbelt because it was quite frightening each time.
....as for different cultures.  I don't think there's any problem, talking / texting out here in France doesn't seem to be a problem.  It's a bit "different" crossing roads here even on "green man" where cars can cross in one direction, some cars just won't stop.  Let me say I think the manufacturers of brake disks have no job security woes here.  The French drive flat out or stamp hard on the pedal -nothing inbetween, so even when you do cross I was told to expect anyone coming up to slow down!!!
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tobyker

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2019, 11:01:12 pm »

and as my dear mama used to say, the French reckon that if they can get through a gap at 5 mph they can get through at 75.
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derekwarner

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2019, 11:27:30 pm »

So RST says.......'When a crawler lane comes up said driver accelerates to 65 or 70........... they're up to 75-80, and same at the end'

In Australia inevitably they are those safety conscience 'VOLVO drivers' O0

The colour of the vehicle is also one of those safety conscious tones of lightly smeared French mustard {-)  [or Baby sh*t brown] :-X
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2019, 01:30:56 am »

I drive a 2003 V40 "sport" (nothing sporty about it apart from the quad headlights and a useless boot spoiler!), but I'm not a t w a t driving at 40 in a 60 keeping a mile tailback behind, then up to 80 in a 70 zone so nobody can overtake!
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2019, 06:10:30 am »

People have an in-built risk-o-meter and with increased risk comes increased thrill and excitement.   Young people do not have the experience to calibrate their risk-o-meter so pushing the envelope is natural and fun.

The problem is the cost of learning - old cars were skidding all over the place at 30mph in the wet so the learning resulted in fairly low-impact accidents.     Modern cars with their stability control, traction control and ABS stick to the road and smooth out a lot more abuse - so feel safer - which is boring.     Less thrill means increased speeds so the energy of any accident is much higher.     It's then down to the safety cell, seat belts & air-bags to save their life.
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2019, 07:06:31 am »

Some very interesting comments in this thread, thought I'd add my pennies worth. As a motorcyclist and someone that drives for a living I have seen some truly amazing, stupid and at times terrifying things on our roads. I have to agree with RST's comments, I was taught to drive by the MOD and always remember my instructors comments, make progress, get to the speed limit. And when I learnt to ride a motorbike back in the early eighties again my instructor clearly stated that if for example the limit is 40mph drive at 40mph, if not you will fail the test for hesitancy. As someone that has spent a lot of his time on the road, both in the UK and Europe, I have now covered over a Million business miles in my career, and there are many things that frustrate me about my fellow road users, but the worst is people driving at lower speeds than the limit. I am sure many will say its a limit, not a tartget, and these people are within their rights to drive at any speed they like within that limit (assuming there is not low speed limit on said road) which they are. But this is also a very selfish act and inconsiderate to other road users. No one is asking them to break the law, but be mindful of other people on the road, the clue is generally the fact that there is nothing in front of you, and twenty cars behind you!!. The irony is these people are also the same ones that will drive at 35-40mph in a 60 or 70 and then continue to drive at the same speed when entering a village at 30mph. Rant over Gents. Jon
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2019, 07:16:50 am »

Some very interesting comments in this thread, thought I'd add my pennies worth. As a motorcyclist and someone that drives for a living I have seen some truly amazing, stupid and at times terrifying things on our roads. I have to agree with RST's comments, I was taught to drive by the MOD and always remember my instructors comments, make progress, get to the speed limit. And when I learnt to ride a motorbike back in the early eighties again my instructor clearly stated that if for example the limit is 40mph drive at 40mph, if not you will fail the test for hesitancy. As someone that has spent a lot of his time on the road, both in the UK and Europe, I have now covered over a Million business miles in my career, and there are many things that frustrate me about my fellow road users, but the worst is people driving at lower speeds than the limit. I am sure many will say its a limit, not a tartget, and these people are within their rights to drive at any speed they like within that limit (assuming there is not low speed limit on said road) which they are. But this is also a very selfish act and inconsiderate to other road users. No one is asking them to break the law, but be mindful of other people on the road, the clue is generally the fact that there is nothing in front of you, and twenty cars behind you!!. The irony is these people are also the same ones that will drive at 35-40mph in a 60 or 70 and then continue to drive at the same speed when entering a village at 30mph. Rant over Gents. Jon
When I did the Advanced Motorists course the assessor said I had to drive like I was late for work but with a police car behind me.     Failure to make progress meant you failed the course.
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2019, 08:26:12 am »

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2019, 08:31:08 am »

Hi all, I did a quick add up of all my driving miles and it comes to about 750K.  I started on a motor cycle and I think those who progress to car driving are very aware of other drivers and traffic.  I was told when learning to drive cars to keep up with the traffic, not quite the same as previous thread I appreciate the point about having a queue behind you.

For me my main issue is to arrive safely, I cannot be in a race with anyone as we did not start nor expect to finish at the same place, so allow for overtaking vehicles.

I remember an experiment done by school children that showed a distinct link between the driver's peripheral vision (or lack of) and the number of accidents they were involved in.  I have been shunted while stationary several times but never hit the car in front as I left a suitable gap.

My one escape was an unsecured load when an 8 x 4 sheet of 1 inch ply flew off the side of a lorry just yards ahead of me when I was overtaking at 70 mph, it is curious, time stood still!  I slowed, told my wife to duck low and timed an acceleration so that my car nailed the sheet to the road as it was gliding in front of me.

I worry that drivers who feel they can hold a phone and drive are the very ones who should not do it.  Yet still driving skills can be the most emotive causes of arguments. 

Many years ago I had a brand new car first day out and on my way to work I hesitated on a busy road at a Y fork I took too long got a loud hoot from a lorry we stopped he got out.  I said thanks for stopping that was b****y stupid of me.  He said OK mate glad you are alright.  Everyone is allowed to make mistakes just face up to it when it is you.
I am long retired I do not drive in commuter traffic unless absolutely necessary why add another car to the queues?  Besides I only do a couple of thousand miles a year now so I can choose my times.
regards Roy




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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2019, 08:41:50 am »

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mrlownotes

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2019, 12:05:21 pm »

190 pages - A very good read. 190 pages that can save your life and possibly many others.
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/download-pdf.html
It's a free download and Up-to-date.
It's a document that should be a compulsory study in schools (in my opinion).



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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2019, 05:43:01 pm »

With quite a number of interesting threads here I do wonder at those who say they always drive to the limit. Surely your speed should be dependant on the road conditions. While I agree that you should keep your speed up where possible there are many situations where lower speeds are warranted. I have been caught behind slow vehicles regularly and know how frustrating it can be, e.g. heading north on the A9 behind motor homes doing 30 when other traffic is doing 60. I regularly drive through a housing scheme where there are often cars parked on both sides of the road with a high risk of people stepping out from behind a car or van. I therefore drive at between 20 and 25mph not 30, speed depending on density of parked cars. Driving to the limit is one of the major causes of accidents in bad weather. I was caught in a thunderstorm travelling home from my break this year, I ended up doing 30 or less in a 60 zone. Attempting to drive to 60 would have been suicidal as visibility was so poor. (I drive a BMW K1600GT motorcycle often towing a small trailer.)
Jim
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2019, 06:14:47 pm »

I quite agree Jim, a limit is just that, a limit by definition. It is emphatically NOT a target. You should drive within that limit at an appropriate speed for the conditions which may include, visibility, weather conditions, road surface, other traffic and many other factors including, as I encountered on a main road in Crete the other day, mountain goats!

You should also drive with due care and consideration to other road users. Like it or not, we have to share the roads with others who may not have lightning reflexes, eagle eyed vision and perfect driving skills. Almost everyone considers themselves to be an above average driver which is obviously nonsense.

I drove up a stretch of the A3 today, the limit is 70 but I was happy to travel at 60 which is a lot more fuel efficient, not to mention relaxing. Anyone who wanted to overtake had two outside lanes at their disposal.

Of course, if you find you have 20 cars trailing along behind you then it is a sign that you are maybe not keeping up with the traffic or have ventured into the Silverstone Grand Prix circuit by mistake. If you feel unable to speed up then pull over when safe and let them go by. Best of all watch your mirror and donít allow a queue to build up.

It isnít about speed limits, it is about driving intelligently and courteously, skills which are often rather lacking on the roads today.

In an unfamiliar area you will tend to find the locals driving faster than you, they know whatís round the next corner and you donít.

Many speed limits are arbitrary and owe more to local politics than objective assessment as is frequently evident when a road crosses a County boundary. In such instances they are counter productive as most of us law abiding citizens will endeavour to comply with them while those that they are aimed at just ignore them.

Blanket 20mph limits are ineffective as with modern cars it is quite hard to keep to 20mph and you end up spending time looking at the speedo when you should be looking at the road.

And I HATE tailgaters, especially those in 4x4s at night with headlamps which come straight in through your back window and virtually destroy your vision.
Itís largely rural roads and country lanes where I live and if everyone drove to the limit they would be littered with scrap metal.

Colin
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derekwarner

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2019, 11:24:24 pm »

On Australian roads [and more so Express Ways or Freeways] there appears a tendency for B Double trailers or Truck & Dog trailer drivers to use their Auto Speed Setting to the true speed limit........naturally I drive in the left hand lane where ever possible, however when turning right off the right hand lane one needs good luck not to have a 30 tonne bemeath hurtling down on your tail under 120dBa of exhaust brakes whilst you exit their path


So the speed limit may be 100 km/h, but the advisory speed limit for the RH turn exit is 70 km/h......so you slow to that lower limit, only to be blasted away by impatient truck drivers working to distance /time schedules set by Private enterprise


Long distance drivers Sydney to Melbourne have time schedules set which our Australian Road Authorities consider a part cause for our National Road Toll


Private enterprise attitudes appears to be .....Get from A to B in as little time possible.......set the truck speed to the limit & pity help any one under that limit

Coils of Australian steel are scheduled to leave Port Kembla at a precise time and arrive 1000 km away at a JIT [just in time] schedule to meet production line unloading of the coils in Victoria.......[not 10 minutes early....not 10 minutes late...or please explain]


[The logic is set by Accountants....you know.........if it is 100 km away and the speed limit is 100 km/h, then it must take you one hour]

Derek
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2019, 01:12:50 am »

I see the US Navy has finally decided to ditch touch screen controls for old fashioned handles and wheels following the USS McCain collision.
I am sure that many of the car accidents are caused by drivers looking at the touch screen in the middle of the dash instead of "knowing" where the controls for heating, radio etc. are by feel and keeping their eyes on the road.
Give me a steering wheel on my Tx. anyday
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2019, 08:11:02 am »

Hi all, I recently changed my car for a newer one (2nd hand 2 years old) and I was pleased to see that it did not have a sat nav in the middle of the dashboard.  I carried on using my Garmin that sticks on the windscreen.  There are too many distractions within the car already that can take your eyes away from the road and I do not mean passengers.

We may soon see hands free phones banned but how it can be monitored is a difficult one.  I remember a phone in a while back on using phones in cars.  One caller said he was a helicopter pilot and was used to handling several  devices at once within his craft.  But I think he had missed the point, as all of his talking and actions were part of his piloting of the aircraft to its' destination.


A phone call coming in to a car could be about an emergency or problem that needs thinking about.  Having been a passenger when the driver was involved in this way made me very uneasy especially as we were at max motorway speed in the outside lane.
regards

Roy

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2019, 11:15:14 pm »

So I'm going to say something controversial because I have first hand experience but I find motorcyclists absolutely abhorent of the rules of the road, and to be honest have no excuse....

In my experience anyway:

I think motorcyclists should be applauded on passing their tests.  Bit like the "knowledge" the taxi drivers go through, we all know in our own cars we have blind spots.  In my experience if you want to find a biker, even if you never saw one coming up -check your blind spot, they have an almost universal "fetish" of naturally breeding in this exact area, no matter what car, van, bus anything.  Bit like "clingons off the starboard bow", but cloaked until it's too late.  Unfortunately if you ever communicate this to any biker I have ever met it's met with agression about how they are in better control
Overtaking:  I have seen far more bikers take risks and cause usual traffic to react.  Just because THEY can accelerate and squeeze into an unconceivable gap, there's no consideration for the main road users
Filtering: WTF and why do I have to acept so may bikers clipping and scrtching my mirrors in static traffic becaue the exercise their right in a 30" gap to push a 29" bike through, then when it gets in to the front of the que to ignore the lane discipline at the junction, it's OK for a bike to cut across 2 lanes of traffic because the cars can apparently emergency stop quicker than the bike can


Front licence plates (bikers get off).  I don't care for speed cameras, particularly average cameras if they are not employed correctly because they're not set right.  A9 a case in hand.  No front plates on bikes, I would have loved to have been able to take a pic of the biker once who held the entire road back at below 30 in the 60 zone, nobody could get past and he weaved in and out to ensure it, then I would guess he hit 120mph before we even lost sight of him.  But we caught him again doing 30 in a 60 later and nobody could get passed again.   I kid you not, he stood up twice "hands free" on passing average speed cameras we were held him back by and each time gave a one finger salute like a selfie, before racing off as fast as he could again.

Truckers I am not convinced.  I started my HGV theory and already worked for a company processing drivers returns, temperatures for food and some tachos, but the industry wasn't promising anything before something else came up.

However, I'm sick of being "chased" by HGV's.  There was a case a cpl of years ago where I had to transport a cast iron pump in our pick-up (a commercial vehicle so I always set by the rules).  I was totally bullied by an HGV behid me who couldn't keep to the speed limit (I drove bang-on to the limit as it was safe to do so).  This big truck behind me just couldn't do it, at one point it wouldn't surprise me if he was less than 6" behined me, then stamped on the brakes.  Then came back up again.   Then the same again, agin, again.  I was actually on cruise control.  +/- 1mph'ish of the law for both of us for a commercial vehicle, I wasn't holding anybody back apart from him.  When I went down the slip after about 20 mins that boy was not happy, he almost clipped my back bumper passing, and we did NOTHING wrong yet some HGV driver probably on his blog etc.  Horns were pressed and fingers raised!!!!


Grr...

Meanwhile my 465 buss passed me as usual at the crossing today -which means I can't make it running across to the stop in time!  PERFECT scenario (I never had the chance to take a pic), the bus driver actually had a smart phone stuck on his side window -as he cruised to a stop he was tapping away, no bother, as he pulled away, no disruption to his multi-talents!

...For anyone who has not experienced buses in France, I imagine that there is a guaranteed union supply of brake disks and clutches.  It's trange, when someone comes on or off with a wheelchair they are amazingly co-operative (as they should), if you're not in that category it's like I imagine like like launching an Ariene rocket without securing anything, then wathing your shopping slide out behind and after is someone elses problem but the G force is always too much to actually get there to recover.

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2019, 11:22:29 pm »

Meanwile I make the pont today in the UK they say now talking on a hands free is damagaing -I agree with this 100% and I would totally ban hands-free if I could.  It is absolutely NOT the same as talking to someone next to you in the car.  Apart from the fact I have never had any form of productive conversation EVER with someone on hand free.  It's always CHHHHHHHFFFFCCCCCEEEEEEEEECCCHHHHHHHH in the background like VHF days.  Just pull-over and stop and talk to me normally please -like what message is too important to need that?

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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2019, 08:36:34 am »

Yes RST, very controversial. As motorcyclist I do take some exception to you comments. But, we live in a free world (for now) and you are entitle to your opinions, some of which I agree with. Myself and both my teenage sons ride and every day we take our lives in our hands on the road. We have to accept that there is good and bad in all. I have also seen some terrible motorcyclists on the road, which gives us all a bad name. But, that compares nothing to the bad car users that a generally oblivious to their surroundings. The agression you refer to is caused by the daily near death experiences we enjoy on the roads. Regards Jon
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2019, 09:25:10 am »

My tuppence worth  :}


I started driving late in life (31), so I believe a more caution driver - and I am no saint nor will I say I am a good driver as I do make mistakes.


I drive to the speed limit - in fact I want a bumper sticker that says - its 0-70 for a reason - on motorways I started this year to do 55 mph in the inside lane, only speeding up to pass even slower vehicles or when having to move out when an on slip road comes up and there are obviously cars trying to join, returning to the inside as soon as possible, when going to work, I start off anywhere from 2 hours to 2Ĺ before my shift, even though it only takes Ĺ hour to get there in light traffic and an hour in heavy traffic, on the way home the travel time is the same though I sometime wait at work as I know there are periods its pointless going early as the rush hour negates it.


Personally I would love all cars to be speed limited to 75 mph to prevent speed merchants (or german marques) and the software to limit at each type of road in the future rather than autonomous vehicles, it could be done by the central computer being swapped out for one that has a rfid reader and a loop fitted into the road at the entrance to each (the loop powered by the street light circuits), driverless cars are useless unless they have there own road system, it will never happen unless all cars are driverless like in the film - the Minority report.


As for bikers - yes they can be little reckless, skimming between cars in queues, but the majority are safe it's the idiot ones that should be incarcerated.
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Re: Ummmmm ( Don't text and Drive! )
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2019, 09:45:36 am »

There is of course the other side - the fact that many speed limits are arbitrary and completely wrong for the road.     There's many wide, long, straight rural roads around here with dumb 40 limits when it could easily be 60.    These limits were set decades ago and no-one looks at them because it's so much hassle to change them.    Only the safety nuts have enough zealots to get everything reduced to 20 for no reason.    There's also the fact that speed limits are 24/7.    There's a school near here in the countryside which causes a 30 limit around it - but why at 3am?     The road could easily be 50 or 60 outside school times.

The whole speed limit thing is sooooo random and badly thought out.   Now it's just a cash-generator for greedy counties.
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