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Author Topic: TLC for an old Lady  (Read 7329 times)

JimS59

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TLC for an old Lady
« on: July 24, 2019, 08:52:09 PM »

Hello All, thought I would post a project that I'm just starting. A friend gave me a 1930's pond yacht, she is 4' long 10" wide and 9.5" from base of keel to deck. She looks a bit worse for wear after spending very many years at the back of a shed, she has no mast or sails no hatch cover, but has most of the deck fittings, I think :-)  (the fittings look hand made, but I maybe wrong about that).
My thought is to bring her back to her former glory, I just need to sort a few things first  :-)  the deck is stained, cracked and warpped, a few hull planks have opened up. The varnish (or what's left of it) is bubbled and looks like sandpaper. So I have a way to go with her and a step learning curve as I know practically zero about yachts. I'm still on the quest to find out what type of yacht she is.. {:-{
I'm going to start with removing the deck fittings and the deck, inspect the braces and beams. My intention is to replace the deck with a sub deck and planked out a main deck, using mahogany and bass.
Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
Regards Jim

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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 03:54:17 PM »


Hi All, Fittings and deck removed, spiders now rehomed and all the debris from over the years removed. Started to sand the hull and found some original or old renovation repairs. I am going to put in a few extra beams to strenthen the deck area.


Update on her type: Russell Potts from the VMYG, has suggested that is may very well be a 1930's 10- r and has suggested a few books that may help by the authors Daniel's and Tucker. So it's a visit to the library for me 🙂
Jim
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JimS59

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Help requierd on TLC For The Old Lady
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 07:53:05 AM »

Hi All, I am looking for 10mm copper nails, I will be needing quite a few. I have looked on many websites with no luck. Can anyone tell me were I may get them, or a possible way yo fabricate them.
Many Jim
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roycv

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Re: Help requierd on TLC For The Old Lady
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2019, 08:23:49 AM »

Hi Jim we do not use nails much now.  Billings were probably the the last kit suppllier to have them.  Also do you mean copper?  I know there are small brass nails.

Tell us about your old lady.  Do you have any photos?
kind regards
Roy
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Martin [Admin]

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JimS59

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Re: Help requierd on TLC For The Old Lady
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2019, 09:03:17 AM »

Hi Guys thanks for the reply, I have started a thread TLC For The old Lady. Some of the photos on there show the nail heads. Unfortunately there are a few replacements needed, As I'm attempting to keep her as close to original as possible. With exception to the deck ( its beyond repair ).
Martin, thank you for the link  :}  they look the ticket. I will send for some and 8f all is right 8 will purchase more.
Jim
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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2019, 03:49:43 PM »

Hi All, latest update on the progress, as I haven't a workshop to speak of or a bench big enough to accomodate The Old Lady. I am at the mercy of the good old British weather and my work area is the garden table. So further updates may take some time. 🙂.
I have started to cut the 48g fiberglass to strengthen the inside of the hull, I measured the length of the inside curve of the hull and width between the frames using a piece of copper wire and cut the fibreglass to size. Then l had to think of a way I could thread the fibreglass underneath the stringers, so I used low tack sticky paper ( postits in this case )to adear to the fibreglass then I could pull it gently through. It took me a while but I finally finished it. 🙂
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2019, 04:08:15 PM »

I am hoping that you are going to use epoxy and that you fully prepared the wood before laying the cloth in place.

Might I suggest that you initially mix a small quantity and see how long it takes to fully whet out each section. You really don't want to feel the need to rush before the epoxy goes off as I suspect that to do a good whetting out will take time.
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JimS59

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Re: Help requierd on TLC For The Old Lady
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2019, 04:30:26 PM »

Hi Chaps, just to say the copper nails came today, they are the correct length but unfortunately not the correct diameter. I am still on the quest for 3/64 x 3/8 copper nails.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Help requierd on TLC For The Old Lady
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2019, 04:46:26 PM »

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Tug Fanatic

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2019, 04:47:52 PM »


Duplicate please delete
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2019, 05:09:48 PM »


Topics Merged.   :-))
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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2019, 06:16:49 PM »

Hi Tug Fantastic, thanks for the info, the chap at the retailer recommended I use a polyester resin as it has up to 24hr cure time, so that should give me time to get the matting into place. I am taking your advice and planning to start amidship as the cloth is easier to manoeuvre in to position.


May I ask if anyone thinks it better to use epoxy as apposed to polyester resins as with no great experiance with this I dont want to start with the wrong stuff.


Many thanks for the merge Martin.
 Jim
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »

I would use epoxy but it doesn't mean others wouldn't use polyester. 24hr cure time does not mean 24hr working time.

You stated above that you are working in the garden but not where you are storing the model unless I missed it. Polyester stinks, & I mean really stinks. My better half would say that you couldn't possibly keep it in the house. This job might well go on for some time. Steady temperature & humidity matter so consider where you are going to store it.

How have you prepared the hull where you are putting the fibreglass?
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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2019, 06:51:20 PM »

Hi Tug Fantastic, I take your point, and will try one section first, I have cleaned out the sections and filleted out the right angles where the frame meets the planks but that's all at the moment. Would you suggest that I give the wood a prime of resin first?
I'm storing the yacht in my shed as there is just about enough room for her, but you mentioning temp and humidity I will have to give some though to where she can go in the house. I will also take your point about the resin and get some epoxy. May save complaints from the neighbour's  :-)
Cheers Jim
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2019, 07:29:47 PM »

Out of interest why are you putting the fibreglass on the inside of the hull rather than the outside? Many wood hulled models are now finished with epoxy & cloth on the outside which is effectively invisible.

I am hoping that someone with experience of resurrecting old models posts soon! The experience of a rebuild veteran would be very helpful. I wouldn't want to suggest anything that might not work on a rebuild as opposed to a new build.
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RST

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2019, 08:45:11 PM »

10mm copper "pins" are on Cornwall Model Boats website also.  If you want something bomb proof I don't see an issue glassing the inside -as well as out as long as it's all dried out before skinning.  I don't have anywhere dedicated to model either (not even a yard outside) so pointers towards epoxy resins are a good tip -nothing obnoxiously stinky like poyester.  I find it a little easier to work with also.

Rich
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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2019, 10:30:39 PM »

Hi Chaps, Thanks for the reply, I would like to preserve the original builders work, and keep as much of its history as possible ( all be it a bit ambitious at the moment ) I have been in touch with Russell Potts of the VMYG and he suggested fiberglassing the inerhull, and preserve the outer.
So in order to try this, I'm thinking going on his suggestion of glassing the inner hull and possibly stain and varnish the outer hull, but I'm up for any other suggestions that will do the job.. :-) [size=78%]Pleas see a couple of paragraphs from Russell's.email.[/size]

[/size]This is certainly a boat worth rescuing. The hull form matches your supposed date quite well. The size is a bit of a problem, as she is too short to be a Marblehead, a class just coming into use in the UK, which has to be 50 inches long, with 800 square inches of sail. On the other hand, though the hull form is very much what one would expect for a 10-rater of the period, she is smaller than I would expect. The level of  fittings that are present suggests that she was sailed seriously in competition, so she is most likely a 10-r. This was far and away the most popoular class in hthe 1930s.[/color][/size][/font]
[/size] [/color][/size][/font]
[/size]I think that you will have to replace the deck. This is always the first part to go, because itn was the largest single piece of wood and subjet to strains as thehull moved. Also it was, at that time usually a very thin piece of pine, picture backing or the like, so not a good quality of wood to start with. Waterproof ply was not available until  after 1945. While you have the deck off you could line the hull with something to make her watertight. It will have to lots of little pieces to fit between the ribs. Back in the day it was sailcloth varnished on, but you may prefer very fine glass cloth.[/color][/size][/font]
[/size]Thank you RST, I have now ordered the pins from Cornwall Model Boats as they appear to be the correct dimensions. I will also take on your and Tug Fanatics  experience and get some epoxy resin..I will put the polyester resin on the shelf.
[/size]Tug Fanatic..sorry for getting your users name wrong previously, it's the auto correction on this system, I didnt realise it till a moment ago.
[/size]Regards Jim
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2019, 08:31:22 AM »

Tug Fantastic - I like it but modesty would stop me..............

I am pleased that you have taken expert advice.

Before applying any epoxy make sure that you have used abrasive on the existing finish to give the epoxy a good key and to remove anything loose. Remember that you are applying the epoxy to the top surface & not the wood underneath. Make sure whatever else is between the epoxy & the wood is secure. When you have finished applying the cloth I would give the whole inside a coat of epoxy to seal it including where you haven't applied cloth.
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roycv

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2019, 01:47:18 PM »

There is another option re preservation of insides.  I use stocking material and yacht varnish.  Works well for me.  I do not think it is much outside the original builders choices either and it is strong.
Regards,
 Roy


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Tug Fanatic

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2019, 02:39:29 PM »

There is another option re preservation of insides.  I use stocking material and yacht varnish.  Works well for me.  I do not think it is much outside the original builders choices either and it is strong.
Regards,
 Roy
I have seen tights recommended for both inside & outside of hull but what of longevity? Do they fall apart like the free Tesco carrier bags used to do? Many synthetics don't like light much. Glass cloth should last for a very long time.
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roycv

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2019, 06:26:57 PM »

Hi tug....  It is usually quite dark inside my boats!   :o
I think they are made from a combination of lycra, nylon and cotton, not noticed any deterioration but I think they will outlast me.
 I used this material to simulate canvas on a hatch cover looks OK after nearly 4 years.
regards,
 Roy
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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2019, 05:03:21 PM »

Thanks Tug / Roy, it's all good and very helpful advice. I want to try and keep the strenthening as transparent and as strong as possible, in order that should anyone look into the hill via the hatch they can still see the work that had gone into putting her together. So with that in mind: I am going to do some test pieces on some old wood with the glassfibre and the stocking material. And may go with the one that is the most transparent.
However if there is anyone that can suggest a matting, I will look into that too.
Regards
Jim
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JimS59

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2019, 04:18:06 PM »

Hi All, I'm giving the deck some thought and wanted others opinions. Below is a photo of a section of the original deck. The king plank and planks are all drawn by hand. I have the intention replanking the deck, but I dont know where to start with the king plank cut out as it would be on the original drawn deck.
I have also seen this deck planking (photo 2 from a build by Peony) and I recon it would be easier for me.. :embarrassed: I think it will suit the Old Lady, may I ask for your comments on my thought, or should I try and replicate the makers original planking pattern.
Cheers Jim
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roycv

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Re: TLC for an old Lady
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2019, 07:20:08 PM »

Hi Jim this is a difficult one, I have an old (100 years+) pond yacht with drawn planking, I decided much as you have thought and started to remove it.  I regret doing this now and it is partly scraped off looking for a better idea.
I recently restored an old (80 years) boat with a pencilled in deck and carefully enhanced the faded pencil lines and a gentle scrape with a sharp carpet knife blade improved it no end.  It is what it is! 

You could re-plank the deck and that will all be new with an old hull underneath.  Is it possible to keep the top of the deck and put a sheet of ply strengthening under the deck?  I feel all the holes in the deck are honorable ones and now I just plug with similar coloured wood, making no attempt to hide them.
 
You can probably see what look like brush marks in the wood, if these are gently scraped off, then re varnish by putting a cotton cloth over a finger and smoothing the varnish, which should be slightly thinned, over the deck do not allow to puddle.

If you do re-plank, in the past I have glued in the king plank fore and aft, and it  should be twice the width of the other planks.
Work from the outside coming inwards from deck edge.  I think this is the only way to get the most noticeable planks looking correct. 

I soak the planks put some pins in and some weight to keep the planks flat, doing both sides one after the other.  Allow for drying. I cut the King plank waste from the shape of the deck plank.  Look at a photo to see what I mean.  the deck plank should be cut at right angles placed over the king plank where it meets.

 Measure one third of the width of the plank and note where the king plank edge is and cut down with a sharp chisel blade through the deck plank and the king plank, then cut the king plank at the end of the deck plank, fish out the king plank waste and you should have a perfect fit for the plank all nicely 'joggled' in place.

Pin holes in the planking can be restored by a drop of water over the hole which will enable the wood to swell and hide after a few hours.

regards,
Roy




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