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Author Topic: "Rudder Rules".....?  (Read 5825 times)

justboatonic

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2019, 08:50:49 PM »

Well Id say depends how big your model is and the forces that are going to be acting on the rudder. Just dont over drive your servo and make sure it has sufficient torque for those forces.
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Jerry C

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2019, 12:40:08 PM »

When say “a normal” vessel moves astern the point about which the vessel pivots moves right aft. This has the effect of removing any moment caused by the rudder. It is virtually impossible to steer such a vessel going astern. The “Royal Daffodil and Royal Sovereign” used to turn round and proceed upstream on the Thames. They both were equipped with bow rudders. HMS Worcester chartered one or the other every year to bring our parents down from Tower pier to the ship at Greenhithe for prize day.  she turned upstream and came alongside as we Cadets cheered ship. On completion both parents and Cadets embarked and returned to Tower Pier and went on summer leave. I can’t remember where exactly she turned about but she made sternboard at full speed and went under Tower bridge astern. Happy times.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2019, 12:50:38 PM »

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Popeye

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2019, 05:19:46 PM »

I'm building a twin screw cabin cruiser (Grand Banks Classic cruiser, 820mm LOA) and intend to slightly offset the rudders from the prop shafts C/L to enable the shafts to be withdrawn from the blunt end without being obstructed by the rudders.
Question: is it better to position the prop shafts inboard of the rudders or vice versa. or would it make no difference whichever way they're   aligned?
 I intend to run both motors from one ESC,  so they won't be individually controllable when rudder is applied.



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roycv

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2019, 06:38:30 PM »

Hi just thinking about it, I would think the rudders have slightly more effect if they they are outboard.  Anyone else think otherwise?
Roy
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derekwarner

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2019, 05:06:03 AM »

Yes Roy, there was a complete evolution in the design of rudders on vessels over the last Centuries


200 ton sailing vessels anchoring mid stream & using ships boats for transportation of cargo & loading
100,000 tonne passenger cruise vessels mooring directly to wharf's without the aid of tug boats


Without going to our Australian paddle ships with Barn Door rudders, sail barges from London waters from the late 1800's used substantial stern [external] rudders to sail.....moor & berth without external assistance


On of the cargos carries is listed with Coal, Barley, Timber,  Wheat, Coke ........etc and Oil Cake...........was this another name for Peat?


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Colin Bishop

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2019, 09:09:10 AM »

Going back to the question, it doesm't seem to matter much if the rudders are inboard or outboard of the shaft line:

http://hydrocompinc.com/knowledge/rudder-offset-position

Colin
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john44

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2019, 09:37:03 AM »

Hi Colin, the link you posted was a good read and in their opinion if the prop turns outboard
The rudder should be set outboard and if the prop turns inboard the rudder should be inboard.
But in fact it doesn't seem to make any difference in actual use.
If you haven't  got acces to remove the rudders on a boat or the room to slide the shaft forward
by removing the motors offsetting the rudders inboard or outboard would be a good idea for shaft
Removal.


John
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Colin Bishop

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2019, 09:45:39 AM »

Yes, offsetting the rudders makes a lot of sense for easy maintenance. It seems to be common full size practice.

Colin
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derekwarner

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2019, 10:51:06 AM »

Let us not forget the ages when rudders were installed on the Larboard side of a vessel  O0  ....... Derek
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Derek Warner

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Colin Bishop

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2019, 11:37:24 AM »

I'm not sure what that has to do with shaft alignment Derek!

Colin
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warspite

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2019, 12:27:07 PM »

Because it's a rudder answer in a rudder topic  :D
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derekwarner

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2019, 01:01:12 PM »

Well Colin....the original message in this thread posed the question......

"This note was prompted when a newcomer to the hobby asked what angle a rudder should turn through"

So I didn't see this as a shaft alignment issue............ as my postings both referred to rudders as per the OP & not shafts  

I would be happier with an explanation of Oil Cake? ...as a cargo shipped between ports in the UK in the late 1800's :D

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Colin Bishop

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2019, 02:44:47 PM »

Will this do Derek?

https://cargohandbook.com/index.php?title=Oil_Cake

These days it seems to be called seed cake and is still a common but potentially hazardous cargo.

Colin

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JimG

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2019, 07:43:08 PM »

Let us not forget the ages when rudders were installed on the Larboard side of a vessel  O0  ....... Derek
Actually this is mounted on the starboard (or steerboard) side. Larboard is now known as the port side.
Jim
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derekwarner

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2019, 10:58:54 PM »

Opps... :embarrassed:


Jim of course, you are absolutely correct...[appears they only named the other side Port, as Larboard sounded too similar to Steerboard]

However despite research of the Chronicles, it is not quite clear exactly when Steerboard became Starboard

Amazing what looking upside down from the other side of the Equator can do after a few glasses of wine {-)


Derek
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Derek Warner

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derekwarner

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2019, 11:15:43 PM »

Ahah...thanks Colin.....carrying Peat in wooden sailing vessel holds, then carrying Wheat or Flour didn't sound a good mix  <*< ....


In Australia we well know this grain seed waste as Meal ....to this point, our Convict stock baked Meal Bread........


As a youngster we loved Weston's Oatmeal biscuits .......WG [George] Weston made Oat biscuits during WW1


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Jerry C

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Re: "Rudder Rules".....?
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2019, 08:49:49 AM »

The Dutch say steer board and back board.
Jerry.
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