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Author Topic: TID tug colours - WW2.  (Read 13208 times)

TailUK

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2017, 01:30:35 PM »

I personally think it's safe to say that the US Army tugs, which were only on loan from the Admiralty were Grey (of some description) but there was some re-painting going on as evidenced by the side of the deck house.  Of most interest is the "clutter" on deck US Army jerricans and what appears to be a German life raft leaning up against the funnel.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2017, 06:25:31 AM »

Weathering would be fun with coal dust everywhere.
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2017, 08:24:22 AM »

Weathering would be fun with coal dust everywhere.


I am having a go at that - its a lot more difficult than I thought its would be - but practice makes perfect I guess.!
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2017, 05:15:44 PM »

Thanks to the excellent contributions on this thread I was encouraged to get on with my build and my early type open cockpit TID is now more or less complete (and weathered) and it had its first sail at the Southport Club on Sunday morning this week.


The model looks really good and the weathering (and rust) looked good enough to attract some favourable comments and with a little ballast adjustment the TID sits well in the water.


Now I know the model is working well enough I can finish off all of the small details such as the rigging, securing the lead ballast in the correct positions and make an accurate looking anchor winch. 


I had hoped to find a commercially made 1/24 scale working windlass made from brass that would "look the part", but have drawn a blank, so I will make a "dummy" winch from plastic card and whatever gears I can find of the right sort of size that will look the part but will not function.


Thanks for all the help and advice - much appreciated!
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TailUK

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2017, 05:46:47 PM »

It would smashing to see some pictures.  O0
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2017, 06:26:46 PM »

It would smashing to see some pictures.  O0
I must find out how to get pictures taken on my iPhone onto this site - I guess that I am "digitally challenged " when compared with the younger generations so maybe I should ask my grandchildren how to do it 😱
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2019, 09:13:10 AM »

Just an update on my first “build from plan” model boat.


It is still in active service and has been sailed most weeks on our club lake and looks really nice on the water.


I have been running the TID on a 6 volt lead acid battery with a Buhler motor and it runs well and at what looks like a nice scale speed but I use this model in all weather conditions and so when it comes in for its first refit I will change it to 12 volts to help it make better headway in heavy weather.


The Tamiya paint has held up much better than expected and only needs some small touch ups where it has had some minor battle damage”.


I have still not made a scale windlass so this will be done during the refit and I think some more rust needs to be added as I hope to improve my weathering technique.


My TID tug has proven to be a very well used and reliable model that has never failed to perform in all weather conditions and still looks good.


I may well add a “tropical sun shade” type of cover as seen in one of the pictures that have been contributed to this very helpful thread as my TID is still the early open cockpit type and I think this would look good and a little “different”.


Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread as it proved to be amine of helpful information during my build.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2019, 09:28:22 PM »

Hi all just back from my hols in darkest Devon. I cannot answer the first question except repeat an old friend of mine who was about in the last war in the Naval Armament Service. He told me all the war time built tugs were delivered in Naval Grey colour, the home fleet being then darker than the Med lighter grey. On delivery they would be immediately repainted in the colours of the service they were handed over too, not much help but as someone else has already said low priority so any grey to hand does.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #83 on: July 29, 2019, 07:48:10 AM »

Photos of tugs during the war aren’t easy to find. A couple of Empires are attached. Empire Zona circa 1945 is a light grey. However, Empire Maisie circa 1943 is a dark grey.

My understanding is that TIDs mostly came under the Ministry of War Transport (MoWT) so would most likely have been painted in the Admiralty’s Merchant Ship series of paints. There were 3 of these Merchant Ship Side (MSS), Merchant Ship Deck (MSD) and Light Merchant Ship Side (Light MSS). I have only ever seen examples of MSD & MSS issued (see attached). Light MSS came about in 1943. However, I haven’t seen a formula for it or sample chip issued by the Admiralty.
 
An easy way if late in the war use a “real” RN light grey i.e. 507C/G45 Foreign Stations Grey which Sovereign Paints put out as
Colourcoats NARN22. For the darker grey, you could use 507B/507A/G10 which is Colourcoats NARN21.
[/size]If it helps the attached photo should be a ship in Light MSS. The photos of Maisie and Zona are undated.
[/size]
Did this help or confuse?
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #84 on: July 29, 2019, 04:09:47 PM »

If you google TID tugs you will come across a whole host of photos, virtually everyone built with its history. Unfortunately, they are all black and white!!
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #85 on: July 31, 2019, 10:00:48 AM »

Thanks, the problem is also that most photos are either undated or obviously pot war.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2019, 05:52:08 PM »

Here is one for you the Plymouth tugs parading for the Coronation review 1937.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2019, 05:54:28 PM »

Post war of a TID at Pompy
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2019, 08:23:23 PM »

I think this is a wartime of empire Ned as RN manned!!
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2019, 08:25:13 PM »

I believe she became empire Ned when civilian manned but here she is obviously out of commission and under tow.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2019, 08:26:26 PM »

Or was it Energetic at Chatham.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2019, 08:29:57 PM »

Talking of RN civilian craft colours, all RNAD coasters where painted overall for wartime period only and most probably PSTOn coasters as well as they all came under PSTOn.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2019, 08:31:45 PM »

Another old tug Crocodile.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2019, 05:45:46 PM »

I know it is not a TID, but this is the RNAD Bedenham during the war at Bedenham and shows the Ammo coasters painted grey, instead of the peacetime black and Buff, but their tugs were always black and Buff. But we must remember some TIDs were not allocated by the Admiralty, but by a wartime civilian dept and those would be painted in the colours of those companies. Also there were other departments (civilian such as the offshore coasting and towing department which had tugs allocated but also took over private owned tugs and coasters with their crews and allocated them around the country as required. |There were a number of these operations only known by their agreement number, since lost to time and memory.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2019, 10:31:11 AM »

I don’t think the Admiralty had anything to do with TIDs in the sense we are discussing. Their involvement was providing colours for Merchant Ships as requested and providing samples of these colours to ship owners so they could be painted uniformly. See attached.

My understanding is that TIDs were built for the Ministry of War Transport (MoWT). Presumably the TIDs came under their Ship Management Division which managed the ships owned, requisitioned or seized by the department through various ship owners.   Civilian tug owners would not then have been involved with the authority to use their own colour schemes.

]
If the Admiralty had any TIDs, they would have come under the Admiralty Yard Craft Service which was the civilian service which operated auxiliary vessels for the Admiralty. This eventually morphed into the now defunct Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service. As far as I can work out, the Yard Service dated back to at least 1906. Little info around for something so historic.
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dodes

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2019, 04:39:17 PM »

Hi Mudway, I do not dispute anything you say, just that there were several government departments that operated various craft taken up from various private owners to use as required around the UK and overseas. The only problem is very little is now known about them, their official title etc, most civilian operated.(MOWT). As to TIDs a lot of them were not completed until near the end of the war in Europe and as such some went immediately to foreign ownership/civilian companies. But I have seen a few photo's which you most probably seen of new tids leaving build yards painted grey, though in B/W photos that can be open to question as you say. But what I say is if you build a model (any) paint it how you the maker wants it to, to please your own imagination no one can definitely stipulate any colour as the war as today has proved there may be a spec provided, but actual contract supply is another matter when money and resources are tight.
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