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Author Topic: What price a boat?  (Read 2678 times)

skierdive

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What price a boat?
« on: August 12, 2019, 07:18:27 PM »

What price a boat?


I've seen a few members comment their dismay or amusement regarding prices charged/asked for second hand model boats. These are usually seen on a well known online auction site but, can also be seen elsewhere.


Various descriptions such as "classic" "vintage" or "rare" are often used along with "needs some TLC" or "project".


I suppose the obvious answer is that a boat is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Factors such as rarity, popularity and build quality can come into it, along with a bidding war created by two or more interested parties.
Also factors like the cost of the original kit or hours spent scratch building a POF  or electrics and added extras can affect the price. But, these are all subjective and there are no hard and fast rules.


I like to think that I can spot the difference between someone selling a boat that has been in the family for some time and a House Clearance merchant who is just chancing their arm. But, it's not always easy.
Another good clue for me is, if a boat attracts no bids at all. Then it is usually over priced or not very good. I was prompted to write after spotting this model today, which I believe is a Sea Rover. A model which I particularly like.




[size=78%]https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-wooden-model-boat-motor-launch-project-boat/163813425757?_trkparms=aid%3D888008%26algo%3DDISC.CARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3D3b4c8375bf854f339575501f82453133%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D323864159469%26itm%3D163813425757%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982[/size]



[size=78%]  [/size]
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Fastfaz

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 07:50:11 PM »

    Check out the Day cruiser in sales section ready to go.
          Regards, Pete.
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Nordlys

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 08:05:56 PM »

Ive had two good boats for sale on the auction site recently, both boats were/are in very nice condition with a low starting price.
Only had two bids for each and so the lucky new owners got a bargain at just over the starting price!
I never sell rubbish.
Cost a fortune to make but people wont pay .
N
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RST

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 08:16:38 PM »

I can't stand the "worth what someone will pay comments" -things are almost aways worth what they are worth but what they sell for is different!

It seems to be rich pickings on E-Bay over the last couple of months though:

  • "Needs a little TLC" -probably split in half, dropped just before the picture was taken
  • "For parts" -more than half the parts usually missing (actually, not always a bad thing if it's not taking the mick)
  • "Real head turner" -nobody usually sees one in that bad condition
  • "Hand made by a craftsman" -what models aren't hand made?
  • "Rare" -usually still available, or some listings at least, sometimes they're still on the market as usual.  In any case if something "rare" is damaged, it doesn't always make it worth anything after
  • "Unique" -usually a reason for that
  • "Only been in the water twice" -sunk once, not fixed, half sunk second time, gave up afterwards and bunged in loft last 10 years
  • "Please see pictures for condition" -love this one: if there are 10 pics, 9 of them are often out of focus, some upside down, sometimes pics of something else
  • "Box worn" -sometimes it looks like the end has been sat on, some folk concentrate on the box rather than the contents
  • "I know nothing about the product but the name on the box is xxxxxx" -actually read the box, it says something completely different, I mailed you help and to say because it's worth more, but you're still adamant
  • "Original condition" -can't be ar*ed cleaning for the pics, which are probably out of focus anyway
...I also love the adverts in CAPS LOCK, EXPLANATION MARKS EVERYWHERE!!!  Also, what's with giving the extensive history of the prototype and almost nothing about what's listed?

There seems to be lots of "house clearance" items at the moment, no reserve yet 1 bid so far is already quite high?

...Whats with "wheelie bins" and models placed ontop these days also?  Is there not a better place to take a pic of your highly desired item?  Maybe it's just me, I usually try and present something of any worth.

...I'm not complaining, I just love watching E-Bay adverts!

Rich

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plastic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 08:32:11 PM »


...I'm not complaining, I just love watching E-Bay adverts!

Rich
I'm loving ebay too - there's some right old crap with crazy prices being sold on there at the moment - but if there's mugs out there with more money than sense, then good luck to them - market forces and all that.

I just don't understand why people would even look at the junk and think they could ever resurrect it into something good - they'd be better off buying something new that will actually work.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 10:05:19 PM »

Quote
I just don't understand why people would even look at the junk and think they could ever resurrect it into something good - they'd be better off buying something new that will actually work.

Or making the effort to build something themselves which is far more satisfying!

Colin
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phil_parker

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2019, 06:46:25 PM »

I've seen too many model boats attract tiny prices. Modellers seem to think that the effort to build a quality model is worth nothing.

Personally, I think this devalues our hobby - but I've said this before and been shouted down.

My feeling is that much as I'd like to see my boats one day go to good homes, the minuscule amounts people will pay makes me think they don't really see any value them, so the tip would be a better home. Depressing really.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2019, 07:08:43 PM »

I think you value something more if you have made it yourself. You can't necessarily expect others to take the same view.

One problem in the 'aftersales' market is that many boats which come up for sale are not unique, there are lots of others made from the same kits or sometimes plans, which only differ in the degree of competence with which they have been put together. This inevitably devalues them. Like buses, miss one and there will be another along soon.

Truly unique models, built to a high standard will command better prices but at the moment provenance counts for a lot too. The superb models built by the late Brian King went for relatively modest prices given their top quality. But a genuine builder's model of an early 20C steamship will realise far more due to its history and being built by professionals.

The time us amateurs spend in constructing our models is 'leisure time' and is generally considered to have no financial value.

The main auction house handling maritime models, Charles Miller, is very picky these days on what they will accept. The days when you could get a great price for a Caldercraft Imara via Christies as I did are long gone.

Ultimately it is a hobby and we build for pleasure. Like it or not, resale value becomes incidental as the market dictates. I hope that when I shuufle off this mortal coil my Daughters might each keep one of my scratch built models in affectionate memory of their Dad. The rest, mostly kits, will have to take their chances on EBay!

Colin
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Antipodean

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 03:20:10 AM »

I have had people ask me what my boats are worth. I always tell them I can't put a price on them.
To me they are priceless, to someone else they can be worthless. It depends on the person.
This is a niche hobby, especially where I am and interest is low.
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Klunk

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2019, 04:35:18 AM »

in the modelling fraternity as a whole, model boaters are seen as the tightwads! go to shows with helis, aeroplanes and cars, and people just hand money over no quibbling. Model boaters look, ask the price, think about it, walk away come back 30 mins later, ask the price again then ask if that's the best price! I've seen this happen at so many shows now. When asked what price a boat is,  quote the retail price of the boats, ancillaries and radio gear. then tell them that the boat in question took X amount of hours to build and at minimum wage they can work out a price the boat should cost to make. normally once the light goes on in their head that the boat cost has now amounted to over £1000 in time and costs I tell them what price I would accept for said boat. they can then decide if the value is fair.
We have a club member Dave who has hand built a landing craft. OK its a fiberglass hull, but everything else was scratch built, including the 1/35th MAN truck converted to RC and the lathe that everything was turned up on. I know we got to £8000 before we called it a day on pricing.
On the other hand I have also sold boats where I know what I want and ask them to make me a reasonable offer. I normally get double what MY price is!!!
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grendel

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2019, 08:38:27 AM »

at a recent boat jumble there were a few models, one quite old wooden model, built exactly as the real thing, but the offputting thing was the price at £295 for a static model. there were a couple of other models there too, but the condition was pitiful and the build quality poor, these looked like they had lived in the back of the van for the last few years and been kicked around for that time.
at an auction I might have considered the £295, but at a boat jumble it was overpriced for the location, as most people dont have that kind of money just tucked into their pocket.
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Stan

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2019, 09:00:37 AM »

last year while attending a model boat show I was offered £800 plus for the model below. This offer was turned down. You may think I was crazy for turning down such a good offer. Good models for sale at shows go very quickly and at a fair price..

Stan.
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plastic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 09:32:44 AM »

You can't really compare boats and planes.   


RC model jets are only made from a few very expensive parts like the engine, airframe, retractables and RC system (which needs to be a decent one so you don't crash your plane).

Boats tend to made from a large number of cheap bits - it's the huge number of those little parts that totals up to a lot of time or cash - but people only see individually cheap bits.
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Stan

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2019, 01:23:36 PM »

Yes you are talking about a specific area of aero modelling which is expensive. If your are building a scale model boat I have to disagree that parts are cheap it may be true if your building a very basic semi scale boat.


Stan
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klz

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 01:47:39 PM »

 A guy in our club scratch built a boat similar to the deans marine snow goose it is a one off he said his own design, he has had a few problems with the electrics and one day he was moaning he had enough and was going to sell it, I said how much he instantly came out with £1000 I said ok I will have the money tomorrow….let’s just say his jaw dropped and he never sold me the boat.  I think the price was to scare me off but he totally undervalued his work this model is gorgeous.
 
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john44

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2019, 02:02:24 PM »

I agree with Stan, for instance my 1/12th Speedline Trent cost well over £1,000 to build
To a high standard. I was offered £600 for her at our lifrboat day which would not even
cover the cost of the kit. I felt insulted.


John
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RMH

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2019, 04:24:42 PM »

Too many people want a everything for as little as possible. If they don't have the time, skills or the patience to build something then they will have to accept the sellers price. My 1/12th Severn will have cost in excess of £2500 which would be my selling price if I were to ever part with it. If no-one will pay that figure then if my kids don't want it then it will go with me to the grave.
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plastic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2019, 05:02:44 PM »

If no-one will pay that figure then if my kids don't want it then it will go with me to the grave.

Viking style?
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raflaunches

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2019, 06:17:25 PM »

One of the best eBay buys I ever had was whilst I was deployed- I found it on the bids only section and it had two hours left before the auction was ended. I put in a reasonable bid expecting to be outbid at the last minute. After the 12 hour shift I looked at my phone and discovered that I had won- only one other bidder which shocked me as it was a beautifully scratch built 1/72 HMS Warrior ironclad. When I arranged to collect it from Coventry when I returned a week later I was given the whole build log and photos, information and plans that the modeller has used to construct it. I was amazed at the generosity of this modeller as the plans alone were worth a fair bit being NMM plans! I even offered to pay extra for them but he wouldn’t have it! And what did I pay- £319 for a beautiful 6ft long piece of history- even the prop was his own work. His starting price was £300 so the other bidder obviously didn’t think that it was worth putting a worthwhile bid as I thought it was worth close to £600-800. The only thing I’ve replaced on it is the figure head which I got made by Shapeways via Mark Hawkins.
Obviously it depends on what you think models are worth and willing to pay for them but I won’t quibble prices with manufacturers either.
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tizdaz

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2019, 04:33:39 AM »

I can't stand the "worth what someone will pay comments" -things are almost aways worth what they are worth but what they sell for is different!

It seems to be rich pickings on E-Bay over the last couple of months though:

  • "Needs a little TLC" -probably split in half, dropped just before the picture was taken
  • "For parts" -more than half the parts usually missing (actually, not always a bad thing if it's not taking the mick)
  • "Real head turner" -nobody usually sees one in that bad condition
  • "Hand made by a craftsman" -what models aren't hand made?
  • "Rare" -usually still available, or some listings at least, sometimes they're still on the market as usual.  In any case if something "rare" is damaged, it doesn't always make it worth anything after
  • "Unique" -usually a reason for that
  • "Only been in the water twice" -sunk once, not fixed, half sunk second time, gave up afterwards and bunged in loft last 10 years
  • "Please see pictures for condition" -love this one: if there are 10 pics, 9 of them are often out of focus, some upside down, sometimes pics of something else
  • "Box worn" -sometimes it looks like the end has been sat on, some folk concentrate on the box rather than the contents
  • "I know nothing about the product but the name on the box is xxxxxx" -actually read the box, it says something completely different, I mailed you help and to say because it's worth more, but you're still adamant
  • "Original condition" -can't be ar*ed cleaning for the pics, which are probably out of focus anyway
...I also love the adverts in CAPS LOCK, EXPLANATION MARKS EVERYWHERE!!!  Also, what's with giving the extensive history of the prototype and almost nothing about what's listed?

There seems to be lots of "house clearance" items at the moment, no reserve yet 1 bid so far is already quite high?

...Whats with "wheelie bins" and models placed ontop these days also?  Is there not a better place to take a pic of your highly desired item?  Maybe it's just me, I usually try and present something of any worth.

...I'm not complaining, I just love watching E-Bay adverts!

Rich
haha this is so true & it ain't just ebay! when i see an advert that's titled something like "MEGA RARE VINTAGE ONE OF A KIND HARDLY USED NEEDS A LITTLE TLC GRAB A BARGAIN!!!!" That usually means... steer well clear! lol :D
When i finish my 1/12 TID at a rough guess it would have cost me in excess of £2-3k plus, then there's the time it took to scratch build it, if anyone ever approached me and offered me a silly price i would literally just laugh in there face like so...

justboatonic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 12:45:48 AM »

Personally, I wouldnt put anything up for auction on EBay. You could end up selling something you value for peanuts. I always advertise items as "Buy It Now" and list it for the price I want or am happy with. Sometimes I'll include a "Best Offer" option for a price Im happy to take.
I always advertise free p&p mainland GB. If EBay send me a sales promotion of maximum selling fees of £1 per item, I cancel my sales and re list ensuring the offer is activated.
If the item doesnt sell, it doesnt sell. I dont care if something of value doesnt sell. I had to wait a little but I sold a Drumbeat for just shy of £400 on EBay and an Envoy tug for £650 on Pre Loved.

By all means if you have stuff you want to get rid off, advertise it for a price you're happy with.
I got stung once on EBay selling a brand new TRex 700DFC heli, ended up paying £60 in EBay fees plus Paypal fees on top. Never again.
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plastic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 07:17:21 AM »

Personally, I wouldnt put anything up for auction on EBay. You could end up selling something you value for peanuts. I always advertise items as "Buy It Now" and list it for the price I want or am happy with. Sometimes I'll include a "Best Offer" option for a price Im happy to take.
I always advertise free p&p mainland GB. If EBay send me a sales promotion of maximum selling fees of £1 per item, I cancel my sales and re list ensuring the offer is activated.
If the item doesnt sell, it doesnt sell. I dont care if something of value doesnt sell. I had to wait a little but I sold a Drumbeat for just shy of £400 on EBay and an Envoy tug for £650 on Pre Loved.

By all means if you have stuff you want to get rid off, advertise it for a price you're happy with.
I got stung once on EBay selling a brand new TRex 700DFC heli, ended up paying £60 in EBay fees plus Paypal fees on top. Never again.

Ebay only put out the £1 offer in the 'dead' weeks when there are no buyers & sellers - it's to bump their business.    Anything listed in those weeks will not achieve a good sale price.   It's times like in summer holidays where everyone is either saving for their holiday, on holiday or broke when they get back - so there's no point listing anything.
As for their fees - it's 10% - so you just accept that as part of doing business selling to a wider audience than your local shop window.
As for auctions - surely you list it starting at the minimum price you'd accept? - anything up from there is a bonus.
Also - cancelling and re-starting auctions doesn't save anything - if you stop an auction before the end, ebay charge you on either the start price or the price the bidding had got to before you ended it - whichever is higher - because they assume you're selling 'off ebay' so they still get their pound of flesh.
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justboatonic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 10:48:42 AM »

Ebay only put out the £1 offer in the 'dead' weeks when there are no buyers & sellers - it's to bump their business.    Anything listed in those weeks will not achieve a good sale price.   It's times like in summer holidays where everyone is either saving for their holiday, on holiday or broke when they get back - so there's no point listing anything.
As for their fees - it's 10% - so you just accept that as part of doing business selling to a wider audience than your local shop window.
As for auctions - surely you list it starting at the minimum price you'd accept? - anything up from there is a bonus.
Also - cancelling and re-starting auctions doesn't save anything - if you stop an auction before the end, ebay charge you on either the start price or the price the bidding had got to before you ended it - whichever is higher - because they assume you're selling 'off ebay' so they still get their pound of flesh.
Sorry, I disagree with you completely. Using the £1 maximum selling fee, Ive saved a lot of money compared to selling without and getting clobbered by the 10% fee. Id have saved £59 off the bat with the heli for starters. Ive been getting the £1 sales promotion regularly through the year and not just 'dead spots' as you imply.
Yes, if you stop an auction before the end, EBay may charge you fees but they do not with BINs that are cancelled. This is because for private sellers, BINs qualify for 1000 listings free of insertion charges.
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plastic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2019, 11:09:14 AM »

The dead weeks do exist - I've been doing this for 20 years.   Ebay never give anything away - they use the £1 fees to entice traffic onto their site - so you haven't saved anything, just didn't sell for as high as you might have.     I use the £1 weeks to buy things - it's effectively ebay telling you that sales are slow so I see it as a good time to pick up bargains.
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justboatonic

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Re: What price a boat?
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2019, 11:56:08 AM »

The dead weeks do exist - I've been doing this for 20 years.   Ebay never give anything away - they use the £1 fees to entice traffic onto their site - so you haven't saved anything, just didn't sell for as high as you might have.     I use the £1 weeks to buy things - it's effectively ebay telling you that sales are slow so I see it as a good time to pick up bargains.
LOL.I dont recollect suggesting or intimating EBay 'give anything away.' Of course they use sales promotions to encourage sellers to list items. The £1 selling fee doesnt make more buyers buy. The buyer doesnt know whether the item for sale is being sold under the promotion or normal 10% fees, what an absurd statement.

I can assure you I have saved fees over and above the usual 10% sellers fees. You didnt seem to be aware that cancelling BINs as opposed to auctions result in no fees so if you've been 'doing this for 20 years,' Id suggest you get up to date with the actual T&Cs.
You come across as someone who does not want to assist anyone in how to sell on EBay for the minimum fees and instead rely on the mantra of 'Ive been doing this for 20 years.' OK, carry on. We'll agree to disagree.
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